Open Carry at a School function in MS

ShannonAR15 · May 13, 2011

What the title says basically....My daughter has a end of the year party at a public bowling alley but most people there will have something to do with the public school...Am I good or what? This is MS where it is open carry im just worried about throwing in the school function...

xd shooter · May 13, 2011

It is my understanding that without a permit from the state (MS) you would be breaking the federal GFSZ law.

But I'm from MI...What do I know...

KBCraig · May 13, 2011

xd shooter said:
It is my understanding that without a permit from the state (MS) you would be breaking the federal GFSZ law.

A bowling alley is not a school. GFSZA doesn't apply.

And, a state concealed carry license is required to OC in MS, because they consider it "concealed" if any part of the gun is covered (like by a holster).

Lavon · May 13, 2011

Might want to read the schools handbook on this one..."off campus function" at our kids school is STILL a school function and falls under state/federal law. Catholic schools leave little grey area.

Seriously...Would you be in a bad area and feel the need to carry?

My wife and I opt out of carrying at "our" school related functions, period. Pretty much because the locations are all restricted anyway!

Aknazer · May 13, 2011

Lavon said:
Might want to read the schools handbook on this one..."off campus function" at our kids school is STILL a school function and falls under state/federal law. Catholic schools leave little grey area.

Seriously...Would you be in a bad area and feel the need to carry?

My wife and I opt out of carrying at "our" school related functions, period. Pretty much because the locations are all restricted anyway!

It doesn't matter what your school's handbook says, it matters what the actual laws say. A school can say whatever it wants, but if the laws of the state say something different then that's what matters as the school can't take you to court.

Also it's rarely about the "need" to carry. Up until something happens you don't "need" to carry, but you never know when that something will happen. Which is why I personally carry around my house even though the doors are often locked and it's in a good part of town.

Now if the place is restricted that's a different story, but there's no reason not to carry so long as it's legal and you aren't doing something like getting completely plastered.

eye95 · May 13, 2011

Aknazer said:
It doesn't matter what your school's handbook says, it matters what the actual laws say. A school can say whatever it wants, but if the laws of the state say something different then that's what matters as the school can't take you to court.

If one is attending or chaperoning at a school function, they must follow the school rules, which likely do not carry the force of law.

Even if MS law prohibits carry near school functions, such as in bowling alleys, this will easily be found unconstitutionally over-broad, as GFSZ's would become moving targets, impossible to avoid by the lawfully armed public.

Aknazer · May 14, 2011

eye95 said:
If one is attending or chaperoning at a school function, they must follow the school rules, which likely do not carry the force of law.

Even if MS law prohibits carry near school functions, such as in bowling alleys, this will easily be found unconstitutionally over-broad, as GFSZ's would become moving targets, impossible to avoid by the lawfully armed public.

And depending on the function one can simply show up to the public place without really being a part of the school function.

xd shooter · May 14, 2011

My reading skills are really going downhill...I missed the Public bowling alley part...

If carrying within MS law, you should be good to go.

SouthernBoy · May 15, 2011

This is very similar to the following scenario (you are armed in both examples).

Example A:
You are sitting in a Wendy's having lunch when a school bus load of third graders arrives for lunch as part of a school field trip. The manager has designated his restaurant for this activity and the entire dining room is to be used for said school event.

Example B:
You are sitting in a Wendy's having lunch when a school bus load of third graders arrives for lunch as part of a school field trip. Thirty some students with their teachers decent upon the restaurant for their lunch.

In Example A, you would be in violation of federal law. In Example B, you would not. I was in a Home Depot last Thursday and walked right in front of a school bus unloading elementary students with their teachers as they made their way into the store for a "visit". I walked past them at least twice in the store while OC'ing and was not breaking any law at all since the store had not closed off a portion, or the entire business, for their visit.

So if the bowling alley is not closing off things just for the students, then you should be fine (unless there is a state law which prohibits this).

zack991 · May 15, 2011

It does not matter what the school rules book says, if you are following the state laws and the private bowling allie allows it, the school can’t do anything. I am not a fan of the public school systems way of shoving its weight around as if their rules outweigh any of the state’s law. I went to a similar function with my kids and the school officials did not like it, but it was in a private business and they had no say in the matter because it was still open to others of the public.

since9 · May 15, 2011

I've OC'd into the office complex of my apartment on more than one occasion when the school bus was dropping off kids. The bus driver saw it but didn't seem to mind. The apartment complex manager wasn't too happy, though, and thought it would be the apartment complex in trouble. I reminded her of the acronym, GFSZ has to with carry within 1,000' of a school, not a school bus, but she didn't didn't accept that.

I suspect my OCing is the main reason they're choosing not to renew my lease.

Aknazer · May 16, 2011

since9 said:
I've OC'd into the office complex of my apartment on more than one occasion when the school bus was dropping off kids. The bus driver saw it but didn't seem to mind. The apartment complex manager wasn't too happy, though, and thought it would be the apartment complex in trouble. I reminded her of the acronym, GFSZ has to with carry within 1,000' of a school, not a school bus, but she didn't didn't accept that.

I suspect my OCing is the main reason they're choosing not to renew my lease.

If you cared to could you go after them for discrimination?

KBCraig · May 16, 2011

SouthernBoy said:
This is very similar to the following scenario (you are armed in both examples).

Example A:
You are sitting in a Wendy's having lunch when a school bus load of third graders arrives for lunch as part of a school field trip. The manager has designated his restaurant for this activity and the entire dining room is to be used for said school event.

Example B:
You are sitting in a Wendy's having lunch when a school bus load of third graders arrives for lunch as part of a school field trip. Thirty some students with their teachers decent upon the restaurant for their lunch.

In Example A, you would be in violation of federal law. In Example B, you would not. I was in a Home Depot last Thursday and walked right in front of a school bus unloading elementary students with their teachers as they made their way into the store for a "visit". I walked past them at least twice in the store while OC'ing and was not breaking any law at all since the store had not closed off a portion, or the entire business, for their visit.

So if the bowling alley is not closing off things just for the students, then you should be fine (unless there is a state law which prohibits this).

There's a whole lot of misunderstanding about the federal GFSZA in your post.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

Just for starters, it specifically does not apply to "private property not part of school grounds". That includes fast food restaurants where school groups stop, or museums where they tour.

Second, even in the "school zone", it doesn't apply "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license".

SouthernBoy · May 16, 2011

KBCraig said:
There's a whole lot of misunderstanding about the federal GFSZA in your post.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/44/922

Just for starters, it specifically does not apply to "private property not part of school grounds". That includes fast food restaurants where school groups stop, or museums where they tour.

Second, even in the "school zone", it doesn't apply "if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license".

Well you are both right and wrong. Right as it applies to U.S. Code 18,922, but wrong as far as Virginia is concerned. And since I live in Virginia, you're wrong.

aadvark · May 16, 2011

ShannonAR15:

Federal Law and Mississippi Law are Two Different Things, Entirely.

Under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2), you would be Fine, however; The Same CANNOT be said under Mississippi Law, more Specifically, Mississippi Law 97-37-17.

If I were You, then, Knowing that This Event is School-related, even at a Bowling Alley, I would Follow Mississippi Law 97-37-17(6)(a) through Mississippi Law 97-37-17(6)(c).

Leave The Firearm in The Car, unless; You want to 'Play-with-Fire' on a Mississippi Firearms-related Felony Charge.

*** Next Year, go to Jackson, and Loudly Complain that Mississippi State should Add The Following: (9) Nothing under This Code Section shall Apply to or Effect any Adult, not being a Student of such School, from The Possession of any Weapon on Educational Property if such Adult is in Possession of a Valid and Lawfully Issued License to Carry a Stun Gun, Pistol, or Revolver if such License is Obtained under The Provisions of Mississippi Code Section 45-9-101. ***

aadvark

Aknazer · May 16, 2011

aadvark said:
ShannonAR15:

Federal Law and Mississippi Law are Two Different Things, Entirely.

Under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2), you would be Fine, however; The Same CANNOT be said under Mississippi Law, more Specifically, Mississippi Law 97-37-17.

If I were You, then, Knowing that This Event is School-related, even at a Bowling Alley, I would Follow Mississippi Law 97-37-17(6)(a) through Mississippi Law 97-37-17(6)(c).

Leave The Firearm in The Car, unless; You want to 'Play-with-Fire' on a Mississippi Firearms-related Felony Charge.

*** Next Year, go to Jackson, and Loudly Complain that Mississippi State should Add The Following: (9) Nothing under This Code Section shall Apply to or Effect any Adult, not being a Student of such School, from The Possession of any Weapon on Educational Property if such Adult is in Possession of a Valid and Lawfully Issued License to Carry a Stun Gun, Pistol, or Revolver if such License is Obtained under The Provisions of Mississippi Code Section 45-9-101. ***

aadvark

97-37-17 doesn't apply. Here's a link to 97-37-17. Specifically 1a outlines educational property, and that such property must be either publicly or privately owned by a school AND have a school building, campus, recreational area, or atheletic field on it. So unless the bowling alley is owned by the school and is on school grounds then 97-37-17 doesn't apply to it and he can legally carry the weapon. Nothing in there states that he can't carry his weapon at an off-site event sponsored by the school.

KBCraig · May 16, 2011

SouthernBoy said:
And since I live in Virginia, you're wrong.

(Psssst.... this is about Mississippi.)

SouthernBoy · May 17, 2011

KBCraig said:
(Psssst.... this is about Mississippi.)

Yes, a fact of which I am aware.

4angrybadgers · May 17, 2011

Aknazer said:
97-37-17 doesn't apply. Here's a link to 97-37-17. Specifically 1a outlines educational property, and that such property must be either publicly or privately owned by a school AND have a school building, campus, recreational area, or atheletic field on it. So unless the bowling alley is owned by the school and is on school grounds then 97-37-17 doesn't apply to it and he can legally carry the weapon. Nothing in there states that he can't carry his weapon at an off-site event sponsored by the school.

Agreed. There's no reasonable stretch of the imagination that can count a privately owned bowling alley as "educational property" under Mississippi law.

zack991 · May 17, 2011

4angrybadgers said:
Agreed. There's no reasonable stretch of the imagination that can count a privately owned bowling alley as "educational property" under Mississippi law.

Yea they would be stretching it big time, it does not mean some idiot union stooge would not try. I don't think any school wants any more negative spot lights on them especially violating a Americans right to open carry in a privately owned Bowling Allie. They would be looking at a quite a few law suits, if they push it they would get tremendous heat not just from Gun groups, but other organizations that would be very much against the idea that a school can impede their policy as law in their establishments. I would truly hope if they did pursue it the lawsuit drains the school board of its funds.

Open Carry at a School function in MS

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