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Thread: OC in Westport

  1. #1
    Regular Member afcarry's Avatar
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    OC in Westport

    So if Steak N' Shake wasn't eventful enough for the OC community, the evening continues...in Westport. Chiang and I had just parked downtown and were walking towards the bar district in search of a coffee joint that was still open. We passed two Fops checking parking tickets when they happened to notice I was OCing. They started following us, when we looked back to see if they were still there. They saw us look back, and pretended to check a nearby SUV by standing behind it. We continued to walk along a few more steps, when they continued to follow us and again we stopped to try to verbally establish a state of trust. We wave and say hi. They see us, and run around the corner of the nearest building calling a MWAG on their radio. We continue on about 25 more yards, when we are approached by two KCPD. Heres a rough transcript with notes:

    Cops - Hey buddy, come over here (in the middle of an driveway).

    Chiang - Over here (pointing to the sidewalk, so we all move over to the side of the driveway where we establish equally dominant positions)

    Cops - Whats with the gun?

    Afcarry - Im open carrying.

    Cops - You cant do that, this is private property.

    Chiang - The managers not here and its not posted, so hes allowed to carry here.

    Cops - Well were responsible for this area.

    Chiang - So if you ask us to leave we'll leave.

    Cops - This is a bar district, and you cant carry in a bar district.

    Chiang - Thats not true, theres no ordinance prohibiting carrying in a bar district.

    Cops - oh, well, you cant carry in a bar

    Chiang - First of all, were not going to a bar, were going to Tea Drops to get tea. Second of all, what you are referring to is the 51% rule, where you cant CONCEAL carry into an establishment that sells over 51% of alcohol

    Cops - Thats the majority of the establishments here, they serve over 51%

    Again were going to Tea Drops, that only applies to CCW, AFcarry is open carrying.

    Cop Sad Face. Literally

    Cop- To afcarry - you mind if I clear your weapon.

    AFCarry- I do not consent,

    Cop- The cop continues to reach for afcarry's weapon.

    Chiang - woah, im going to reach into my pocket for a recording device.

    Cop- stopped instantly and asks ... why?

    Chiang - because you are about to illegally seize this mans weapon and I want to get this on tape. Chiang also explains his understanding of the local law regarding the matter and how what how by seizing the weapon after afcarry refused consent would be a no no.

    Cop responds - It is not illegal because I asked for consent.

    Chiang- He just informed you that he does not consent to having his weapon removed or handled.

    The cop takes a step back in shame.

    by this time, nothing short of 12 officers are on scene, all gathering around.

    Commanding officer walks up and says,
    First off, i know that what your doing is perfectly legal. but the combination of alcohol in this district with firearms is a bad judgement call on your part. there is going to be somebody who is going to show you whose boss, and there may be an incident and you could be dead before you draw the damn thing.

    Chiang and afcarry- sir, we completely understand that and appreciate the input.

    Commanding officer- well bringing that gun into this district is a poor judgement call, so what is you decision (referring to if we would continue into westport), well?

    afcarry- if you ask us to leave we'll leave.

    Commanding officer- its a bad choice,- and he walks off.

    Chiang- are we free to go?

    Cops- yes.

    Chiang- Thank you, and to be honest we appreciate you officers doing your job, and we weren't looking to cause trouble. We respect you guys and what you do, and we obviously don't want to bump heads with you LEOs especially with a gun involved. You guys have a good night.

    And we left! Aside from some ignorance pertaining to the law, they were really respectful and perceptive.
    An individual should not choose the caliber, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong

  2. #2
    Regular Member Reverend BCal's Avatar
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    Cool

    Y'all boys is my heroes! And you deserve every emoticon inch of that sunglasses wearing smiley.
    "Before all else, be armed." -Nicolo Machiavelli

  3. #3
    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    Great job guys! Keep up the good work.

  4. #4
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    How was the tea?

  5. #5
    Regular Member Big Boy's Avatar
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    Lol, wish I could have seen the faces the officer was making.

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    Westport has always had a lot of police there, and I suspect after the little riot at the Plaza a couple weeks ago, they've beefed it up even more. You usually get at least one good riot there a year. Their policy appears to be to respond in force to any call in the convention zones, so I don't think that has anything to do with you guys personally...

    To be honest, I'm not so sure I'd OC in Westport on a weekend. What you guys did took some guts.

    I can also give out minor props to the KCMO PD. For the most part, they've always been respectful and polite. I've never had them be anything other than friendly to me before last night, so it seems a little odd that they were so testy. But, education is part of what we're doing. Of course, we didn't expect to educate LEO's.

    I wonder if there will be any discussions among the big wigs for 2 OC incidents within a few hours. The first one could have been avoided by properly training the 911 Operator and the Dispatcher.

    Oh, and I did love the sad puppy dog face on the paddywagon driver at Steak n Shake. That was worth a million dollars.
    Last edited by kcgunfan; 05-14-2011 at 12:49 PM. Reason: Fixed stupid word substitution

  7. #7
    Regular Member NG19's Avatar
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    I wish I could have been there. We went to Target and Hy Vee afterwards. We are not able to get there very often so we go when we can. Nothing interesting for us, just a few looks and that was all. Over all a good night. The first cop always seems to respond with a power trip. I guess it is good that they are doing there job, I just wish they would follow and know the law like they are asking us to do.
    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!

  8. #8
    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Lol, it was a pretty eventful night that is for sure. I do have to say, even with me kind of taking verbal control during the LEO contact at westport, they never got angry or defensive. They were looking for avenues to exercise their authority, but when I was able response confidently that they were incorrect, they simply took it as truth and moved on. Also, after the captain showed up and said what we were doing was legal but bad judgement blah blah, when we left, they even told us to have a good night and even gave us the "well you guys understand why we are concerned, be safe now" etc. I am very pleased with KCPDs professionalism as a whole. Even when there is that one officer who comes on a little strong, it is often regulated with a little conversation and direct addressing of the issue. Much respect to KCPD.
    Tiocfaidh Ar La

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Good job guys. Kind of weird that he would stop the search after being corrected by a citizen. You don't get that too often anywhere else!

  10. #10
    Regular Member afcarry's Avatar
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    Not that strange, really. Keep in mind that in our efforts to educate the general public about our practices, we also have to spend time educating police officers as well. This is a new-ish movement, and police are stilling working out the kinks of how to address individuals exercising their right to bear arms publicly and lawfully. Some still have very little knowledge of how the laws apply, so put yourself in their shoes...
    1. they immediately lost dominance when they followed our instructions to move.
    2. they lost it even more when we took a one on one conversational stance.
    3. they were ill prepared in their knowledge of the laws they were trying to quote in their favor.
    4. they were thrown off when we blatantly told them we were going to record any illegal activity.
    5. when the shift supervisor showed up he made the (mistake) of telling us that we did nothing wrong...immediately....without question.
    6. We only answered questions with calculated counter statements. Believe it or not, I understand why they were thrown off, and I really do appreciate their intentions, they are there for our collective safety.
    An individual should not choose the caliber, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong

  11. #11
    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    You guys have CCW's right? That whole 51% thing is out the window if you do.

    Sounds like a good, safe experience for all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    You guys have CCW's right? That whole 51% thing is out the window if you do.

    Sounds like a good, safe experience for all.
    afcarry doesn't yet, he has to wait until HB 294 et al. become law. But, do you mean out the window as far as the leave when you're asked piece, or because of something else? I thought that 571.107.1.(7) and 571.107.2 still applied.

  13. #13
    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    I just mean that you're good to go as far as carrying into a bar, if you have a CCW. Not that you get carte blanche if someone asks you to leave.

    I supports ALL rights equally. That means property rights, free speech (that includes flag burning and funeral protests), search and seizure, and all others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    I just mean that you're good to go as far as carrying into a bar, if you have a CCW. Not that you get carte blanche if someone asks you to leave.

    I supports ALL rights equally. That means property rights, free speech (that includes flag burning and funeral protests), search and seizure, and all others.
    No problem, I'm there with you. I wish we could find a way to get rid of 571.107, but in lieu of that, find a term to accurately describe the punishment for violating it. I know it's not illegal, but I'm not sure it's recommended either. I just don't know a word to use...

  15. #15
    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    No problem, I'm there with you. I wish we could find a way to get rid of 571.107, but in lieu of that, find a term to accurately describe the punishment for violating it. I know it's not illegal, but I'm not sure it's recommended either. I just don't know a word to use...
    Get rid of it? No way. That thing is a work of art. I won't give full disclosure on the internet b/c I don't want to inform anti's but I love the way it is written.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    Get rid of it? No way. That thing is a work of art. I won't give full disclosure on the internet b/c I don't want to inform anti's but I love the way it is written.
    I suspect I know what you're referring to, and I agree with it. One part of me wants to enshrine it as being a great example of lawmaking. But, it also seems silly that I can't carry a firearm in my church, or at a polling place, or a restaurant with over 50% alcohol sales. After all, I've run a lot of tests on my holster, and I haven't found a single instance where my firearm jumped out and started shooting people. I just don't think those restrictions are necessary.

  17. #17
    Regular Member afcarry's Avatar
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    Thanks. I have to say though, we do take some things for granted. Too often we are quick to jump to judge LEOs (it may be justified in soma cases, not trying to start a fight) when I personally believe they aren't the one's completely responsible for all the show of force. When the MWAG call comes in to 911, the responsibility often lies on the shoulders of the 911 dispatcher as to whom shows up. If there are 15 cops we start making jokes about how many of them are bored, and these may or may not be true. We dont know how many people were sent rather than just went.
    An individual should not choose the caliber, cartridge, and bullet that will kill an an animal when everything is right; rather, he should choose ones that will kill the most efficiently when everything goes wrong

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    Regular Member cshoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    I suspect I know what you're referring to, and I agree with it. One part of me wants to enshrine it as being a great example of lawmaking. But, it also seems silly that I can't carry a firearm in my church, or at a polling place, or a restaurant with over 50% alcohol sales. After all, I've run a lot of tests on my holster, and I haven't found a single instance where my firearm jumped out and started shooting people. I just don't think those restrictions are necessary.
    Who said you can't carry a firearm into those places? If you have a valid CCW endorsement, there is nothing unlawful about you carrying into any of those places. In fact, it's not even an infraction. The "restrictions" you mentioned do not exist unless they were put in place by the property owner.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Richieg150's Avatar
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    Commanding officer walks up and says,
    First off, i know that what your doing is perfectly legal. but the combination of alcohol in this district with firearms is a bad judgement call on your part. there is going to be somebody who is going to show you whose boss, and there may be an incident and you could be dead before you draw the damn thing.

    HMMMMMMMMM......so by me opencarrying a firearm,there IS going to be somebody who IS going to show me who the boss is? That statement defies all logic and studies researched by the FBI,for one. Its PROVEN, that concealed carry has detured crime,violent crimes, and opencarry will have the same effect. I would have asked the commander, just how many times has someone tried showing him who the boss was, since he is carrying a firearm. The last time I checked, my firearm doesnt drink, so being around alcohol doesnt affect its judgement or performance. The bad part about this commamders statements IMHO, is that he is a commander, seems to me he lacks commonsense or a touch of reality, on many levels by his statements.
    Psalm 144:1 Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:
    Psalm 144:2 My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me. Pro 14:15 The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going.

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    Sounds like you guys did a great job!!!

    Funny you mention WestPort.

    My wife, Kati, and I were there LAST week. We strolled around the whole thing without trouble. But when we went into Barnes and Noble to hit the Starbucks (where I have carried before) a miniature security guy in an oversized suit stopped me to ask about the gun.

    He asked "What agency are you with?"
    I replied "I do not discuss my personal life with people I don't know, sorry" with a smile on my face> Not a smartass smile, just friendly.

    He said "So why the gun?" I said, "As I already told you, I don't discuss personal information with strangers. Do you feel I have done something illegal?"

    He said, "No, I was just hoping to find out why you are armed in Starbucks." I said " I am always armed."

    At this point my wife rolled her eyes and walked off, bored with this familiar line of discussion AGAIN. He just watched her walk away ... lol

    He said "I don't see why you need to be so secretive", I said, "Sorry, I just take my privacy seriously."

    He asked for my name and I said, "that is private information also. Do you want us to leave??" He said, "No, I am just trying to figure out why you guys are here armed." I said "OK. Well as soon as our drinks are ready, we are leaving anyway. Sorry for wasting your time". He just stared as we walked off, although I caught him tailing us as we went downstairs and left but he stopped at the store front.

    He seemed a little miffed and surprised that we refused to answer him. I was expecting LE to pick up as we left and headed up the street.

    It was all friendly on our part and he was not rude either, just baffled at my refusal to ID and explain myself. I did not bother to talk OC with him, I just wasn't in the mood. But no one followed us or bothered us after that so...

    I almost did not bother reporting this since it is typical of most of my encounters where I just refuse to give anything at all. But I suspect Westport is a place likely to raise awareness of OC if we continue to show up since it is so high profile.

  21. #21
    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    peterarthur - I agree with you. All the personal questions people feel entitled to can get old.

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    Wow, can I come hang out with you guys next time you OC? I'd love to have someone that knowledgeable and informed with me when I'm out ha ha.
    Last edited by mjk; 05-18-2011 at 03:03 PM.

  23. #23
    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjk View Post
    Wow, can I come hang out with you guys next time you OC? I'd love to have someone that knowledgeable and informed with me when I'm out ha ha.
    Lol, we are always out and about KC, if you want to set something small up send me a private message.
    Tiocfaidh Ar La

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    Hmmm. There is obviously two sides to this story. I'm sure the cops would say things happened quite differently. We don't even have a recording of the incident, much less HD video from when you left your house that day until when you got home. I don't think I can believe you. You were most likely looking to bait the police until you can show evidence that you were not.

    "Everything is hearsay, thats not debatable." afcarry

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lancers View Post
    Hmmm. There is obviously two sides to this story. I'm sure the cops would say things happened quite differently. We don't even have a recording of the incident, much less HD video from when you left your house that day until when you got home. I don't think I can believe you. You were most likely looking to bait the police until you can show evidence that you were not.

    "Everything is hearsay, thats not debatable." afcarry
    Touche'

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