Non-res open carry

ST19AG_WGreymon · May 16, 2011

It is generally advised that a resident of Maryland can lawfully transport a handgun, unloaded of course, to Virginia for the purpose of open/concealed carry. Correct?

I have searched the forum and found out that it is legal to open carry on the VA Metro stops. However, would there be any ramifications for an individual transporting an unloaded and locked(extra precaution) handgun from a Maryland Metro stop to a Virginia Metro stop for the purpose of open/concealed carry?

Let's say from Branch Ave. to Ballston as an example.

Thanks in advance.

All American Nightmare · May 16, 2011

ST19AG_WGreymon said:
It is generally advised that a resident of Maryland can lawfully transport a handgun, unloaded of course, to Virginia for the purpose of open/concealed carry. Correct?

I have searched the forum and found out that it is legal to open carry on the VA Metro stops. However, would there be any ramifications for an individual transporting an unloaded and locked(extra precaution) handgun from a Maryland Metro stop to a Virginia Metro stop for the purpose of open/concealed carry?

Let's say from Branch Ave. to Ballston as an example.

Thanks in advance.

Look up the laws for both States.

2a4all · May 16, 2011

ST19AG_WGreymon said:
It is generally advised that a resident of Maryland can lawfully transport a handgun, unloaded of course, to Virginia for the purpose of open/concealed carry. Correct?

I have searched the forum and found out that it is legal to open carry on the VA Metro stops. However, would there be any ramifications for an individual transporting an unloaded and locked(extra precaution) handgun from a Maryland Metro stop to a Virginia Metro stop for the purpose of open/concealed carry?

Let's say from Branch Ave. to Ballston as an example.

Thanks in advance.

It's been a while since I've looked at a Metro map, but can you travel from Branch Ave (MD?) to Ballston on the Metro without going thru DC?

Blk97F150 · May 16, 2011

2a4all said:
It's been a while since I've looked at a Metro map, but can you travel from Branch Ave (MD?) to Ballston on the Metro without going thru DC?

Nope.

http://www.wmata.com/rail/docs/colormap_lettersize.pdf

zoom6zoom · May 16, 2011

That would indeed be the sticking point.

TFred · May 17, 2011

I assume the question is in relation to the Firearm Owners Protection Act, which supersedes state law regarding the interstate transport of firearms under certain conditions.

IANAL, but it appears to me that the FOPA does not take public transportation into account. The NRA page on FOPA emphasizes that the firearm in transit must be locked and inaccessible. That's pretty hard to satisfy on Metro.

TFred

swinokur · May 18, 2011

SCOTUS ruled in Revell vs. Port Authority of NY and NJ that you have no FOPA protection if the firearm is in your POSSESSION. There would be no way for you to travel on Metro and not be in POSSESSION of the firearm, even if in a locked case,

user · May 18, 2011

We're assuming everyone knows that open carry is perfectly legal in Va., right? So the issue is how to get the gun into Virginia? The issue really isn't "possession" it's immediate access - the statute presupposes that the firearm will be locked in a container within the vehicle being used for transportation. I think you'll have a hard time persuading the D.C. Superior Court that a Metro car is such a vehicle, or that you didn't have immediate access to the container during transportion.

18 USC Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

swinokur · May 18, 2011

User you are correct. IIRC SCOTUS ruled that by taking POSSESSION of his suitcase Mr. Revell had ACCESS to the firearm. I think I didn't quote the ruling correctly. You are right as always sir

TFred · May 18, 2011

I wonder how it would play out if you put the gun in a securely locked case (i.e. not one with a show-lock, but a lock that actually kept you out...) and then mailed the key to yourself ahead of time in your destination state. If you truly did not possess the key to the securely locked box... seems you could make a good argument that you did not have access during the transport.

TFred

t11spanner · May 18, 2011

Now that, I really like that idea!

TFred said:
I wonder how it would play out if you put the gun in a securely locked case (i.e. not one with a show-lock, but a lock that actually kept you out...) and then mailed the key to yourself ahead of time in your destination state. If you truly did not possess the key to the securely locked box... seems you could make a good argument that you did not have access during the transport.

TFred

2a4all · May 18, 2011

TFred said:
I wonder how it would play out if you put the gun in a securely locked case (i.e. not one with a show-lock, but a lock that actually kept you out...) and then mailed the key to yourself ahead of time in your destination state. If you truly did not possess the key to the securely locked box... seems you could make a good argument that you did not have access during the transport.

TFred

Or you could give the key to a trusted friend who would take the same trains, but ride on a different car. After all, what would you do if the USPS lost your mail?

To elaborate on User's post about convincing the DC Court that a Metro rail car meets the FOPA requirements of a vehicle; it may not matter. One cannot ride the same train between the two points in question. One must change from the Green Line to the Orange Line at the Archives, leaving one afoot with the "item" within DC.

swinokur · May 18, 2011

Wow great point and I've lived here my whole life. You must have worked in DC at some point.

2a4all · May 18, 2011

swinokur said:
Wow great point and I've lived here my whole life. You must have worked in DC at some point.

Guilty as charged, but I also looked at Blk97F150's Metro Map...

swinokur · May 18, 2011

ST19AG_WGreymon · May 18, 2011

Thanks for all the info guys.

I'm thinking of this: Transporting it in a locked case with the key at my friends' place that I visit very often in VA(main reason I go there). No key will be on me, hence it is NOT accessible. Of course I'd have a copy at my residence in Maryland.

Yay or nay?

swinokur · May 18, 2011

Method of transport? car, train, boat, plane?

If you are going through DC and have to change trains, I'd forget it if it was me.

You can UPS it to yourself. Must go next day and you must declare the weapon to the carrier. I think Fed EX will only ship to an FFL. Check their web site.

Blk97F150 · May 18, 2011

ST19AG_WGreymon said:
Thanks for all the info guys.

I'm thinking of this: Transporting it in a locked case with the key at my friends' place that I visit very often in VA(main reason I go there). No key will be on me, hence it is NOT accessible. Of course I'd have a copy at my residence in Maryland.

Yay or nay?

Why not just leave it at your friends house all the time? Or borrow one of his/hers while you are in Virginia?

tcmech · May 19, 2011

How about if you just drive?

No one is arguing the fact that you are allowed to carry in Virginia, the legalities of how it gets here is on you as the gun owner.

nuc65 · May 19, 2011

user said:
We're assuming everyone knows that open carry is perfectly legal in Va., right? So the issue is how to get the gun into Virginia? The issue really isn't "possession" it's immediate access - the statute presupposes that the firearm will be locked in a container within the vehicle being used for transportation. I think you'll have a hard time persuading the D.C. Superior Court that a Metro car is such a vehicle, or that you didn't have immediate access to the container during transportion.

18 USC Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

It seems like one could carry it in a locked strongbox and not be afoul of the law.

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