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Thread: STL Police memo about open carry

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    STL Police memo about open carry

    I just started working a job with a high end catering company not to long ago. I was at a wedding a few days ago and just observing to make sure everything was going ok. A guy walked up and told me, "There is a table of St. Louis police officers watching you." He walked off towards the table. About 5 minutes later, another guy came up on me from behind. He said, "why do you hate us?" I told them I didn't hate them and instead said it seemed to be the other way around. Another, self-identified police officer, came up and joined the conversation. We talked about why I started with the car camera in the first place and that I am not out to get anyone, just protect myself when I exercise my rights.

    The conversation quickly turned to the OC incident in Maplewood. They asked why I was open carrying and I told them I was just exercising my rights. I told them I had checked to make sure it was ok with the city and Wal-Mart prior to doing it. They said they knew. They read all about it in the memo they had all gotten. It apparently had discussed the issue of open carry and that it was legal in most places. He would not tell me much more about it or how it instructed officer to act around an OCer.

    The one officer said he knew there were people OCing in KC, but did not know of anyone else that had done it in STL. I told them there were and they had even had positive dealings with the police, just like I had expected if the police ever noticed I was open carrying.

    I told him there are a lot of bad people out there and they will not be open carrying. They agreed. I also said they should focus their efforts on those people instead of people like me not doing anything wrong since that is the oath they took. The one said, "They are still going to be after you though now, you know." I told them that was pretty silly and that I have taken extreme steps to protect myself from anyone that feels the need to "get me" for the lawful things I have done.

    We discussed the news issue about shooting the police. I explained it to them and they seemed to understand that I am not out to harm any police officers, or anyone for that matter.

    Their wives seemed pretty pissed that they even approached me since I'm sure they had discussed me at the table. They walked outside and called their husbands, which ended the 20 minute conversation.

    I'm glad I got to discuss the issues with them so they could get a better understanding other than the stuff they have heard. It was still a bit concerning they could spot me out when they had no reason to suspect I was there.

    I'd sure like to see a copy of the whole memo. One of the officers was with the City of St. Louis and the other would not tell me which department he worked for other than it was not the city. They would only tell me their first names, but I guess they forgot it was assigned seating at the tables and I was able to identify all of them with the seating chart.

  2. #2
    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    That'd be weird STL city cops got a memo on it, seeing as it's illegal there.

    Also, face to face convo is a great tool. I'm glad you got to talk and show you are just a normal guy. Cops don't need to fear any recording, as long as they are trying to operate within the law. And if that's what they're doing then we have something in common.

    I'd like a look at the memo, though. Can we get that through the Sunshine Law?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    That'd be weird STL city cops got a memo on it, seeing as it's illegal there.

    Also, face to face convo is a great tool. I'm glad you got to talk and show you are just a normal guy. Cops don't need to fear any recording, as long as they are trying to operate within the law. And if that's what they're doing then we have something in common.

    I'd like a look at the memo, though. Can we get that through the Sunshine Law?
    From what Brett said, the difficulty seems to be in determining what department sent it. Although, if you can find out what department the police officer that said he had read it, that might be a good place to start. if he is pursuing civil action against Maplewood, that would be an interesting document.

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    Wait. I thought we NEVER talked to the cops ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    That'd be weird STL city cops got a memo on it, seeing as it's illegal there.

    Also, face to face convo is a great tool. I'm glad you got to talk and show you are just a normal guy. Cops don't need to fear any recording, as long as they are trying to operate within the law. And if that's what they're doing then we have something in common.

    I'd like a look at the memo, though. Can we get that through the Sunshine Law?
    Sorry. I didn't clarify. The officer talking about the memo specifically saying it was legal was the one who said he was not a city officer, but would not tell me which department. The second officer that later identified himself as a city officer (didn't know he was city until the end) agreed with getting some type of memo, but as we started to discuss it, he stepped away just a second as someone came up to talk to him. That is when the first officer told me it said OC was legal. I told him there were some places like in STL City it was not and he tried telling me I could open carry in STL City too. I don't know if he was trying to set me up, but I dropped it. I wasn't going to encourage him that it was easy to make it illegal. I guess I had just assumed they were both with the same department when they agreed about getting the memo, but at the end, I found out the second cop was from STL City instead.

    Now that I think about how it went down, it is quite possible the city had their own memo about it and first guys department got a memo too, but it was just different in regards to the laws of OC. I'm sure they were both similar to the point of us citizens recording them. The city officer joined back in after the other person that had engaged him left, and the conversation continued.

    As far as the sunshine law, that should be an open record. Items sent to more than half the agency are open. I believe the attorney general made a case out of something similar that said the police were included in that rule. I might just send out a request to every department in the area. After dealing with Maplewood and trying to get simple documents and having to get the AG involved, I don't know if any department will give me that information. Maybe if I get a reporter to request it, they might have better luck.
    Last edited by lancers; 05-16-2011 at 11:31 PM.

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    Did you get your XD back yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    Wait. I thought we NEVER talked to the cops ?
    Why is that? Are you saying we should fear the police or something? Are they not there to help us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Did you get your XD back yet?
    Nope. It's okay, I'm pretty sure they will buy me a new one someday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lancers View Post
    Why is that? Are you saying we should fear the police or something? Are they not there to help us?
    I personally thought so, but this board says otherwise .

    Superlite27
    This is why TALKING TO THE POLICE = BAD FOR YOU. No exceptions. If you are doing something illegal, THEY ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO ARREST YOU. They will do so. It is their purpose. If you are NOT doing anything illegal, they cannot arrest you, and must have a REASONABLE SUSPICION to do so.

    THEREFORE: There is ABSOLUTELY NO situation in which talking to the police will "help" you. You cannot talk your way out of being arrested. You have not been arrested yet, therefore have, so far, not given the officer probable cause. However, this leaves only one option: You CAN talk your way into it by flapping your lips and giving the officer what he needs to do so.

    To simplify: You are not under arrest now. There is only one direction in which a change can be made. You can only do this by giving an officer enough evidence to do so. Since you are not under arrest now, talking to the police only leads in one direction.
    LMTD
    here is not a single defense lawyer that is worth a dime that would agree with you at any level what so ever and every single one would tell you not to speak at all, shut your freakin pie hole and let them speak for you as there is NOTHING to be GAINED by speaking to them.
    Claytron
    One of the main things that my CCW instructor went over during the law portion of my course was NOT to speak to the police EVER, for ANY reason other than giving them the information you are required to give them.
    Twiztid Angel
    See you still don't understand....you can be as nice as can be and they can still use what you say against you whether your innocent or not.

    The more you talk the more information they get from you....including information that may give the RAS to do a further investigation....you may think its an innocent conversation but the officer is always looking for some reason to further question you.

    Being honest can be your biggest downfall.



    Im a nice person too but other than Hi as passing I do not speak to LEO and I work with them!!!!
    I stopped there because I was tired of looking. That was in one thread, though.

    I got grilled when I said I talked to (GASP ).... COPS !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    I personally thought so, but this board says otherwise .

    I stopped there because I was tired of looking. That was in one thread, though.

    I got grilled when I said I talked to (GASP ).... COPS !
    Context is important, and it seems as though you are perfectly willing to ignore it in this case. When a police officer has stopped or detained you and is conducting an investigation of you, the prudent thing to do is say as little as possible. And if it appears the situation is going to go beyond a simple detainment, the prudent thing to do is to exercise your 5th Amendment rights and KEEP YOUR MOUTH CLOSED and don't say a word.

    On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with engaging in casual, non-official conversation with a police officer. Heck, I have several fairly close friends who are cops and I talk to them rather regularly. But if any of them were officially investigating me for any reason, you'd better believe I'd shut up in a big hurry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post

    I got grilled when I said I talked to (GASP ).... COPS !
    I would not have recommended he talk to them then if I was in his shoes.

    There is a HUGE difference in Brett and I.

    1. I have never been significantly harassed by a police officer, Brett has, however I have had them make poor decisions when dealing with myself, so has Brett.

    2. I have never had a police officer threaten to make up charges and take me to jail for no reason beyond the fact that he had a gun and could and there was nothing I could do about it, Brett has.

    3 I have never had a police officer verbally threaten my life, Brett has.

    4 I have never had a police officer put a death threat in writing saying he was going to kill me, Brett has.

    Brett may have never had a discussion with a police officer outside of his normal areas of travels that knew him, I have talked to several whom know him via photo's, name, type of car, and the moniker "video boy" and these were officers whom had never met Brett by their own admission.

    Since he was working and working in a capacity that requires courtesy and a certain level of demeanor that requires he represent his employers interest not his own, when APPROACHED by a GUEST of his employer, he has little choice but to respond in kind or lose his job. Such is life in an employment at will state where he could be fired in a crappy economy.

    Instead of a weak attempt at instigating a lot of negative energy, why don't you try and do something positive for 2a rights?

    I may not be a member of Brett's fan club, I may be disappointed that he does not conduct himself as I see fit, but the really cool part about that is he does not have to do so, its a free country. Respecting his rights the same as my own is important because someone else does not like the way I do things either and if I can not respect his them how could I expect them to respect mine?

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    Regular Member cash50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    I personally thought so, but this board says otherwise .









    I stopped there because I was tired of looking. That was in one thread, though.

    I got grilled when I said I talked to (GASP ).... COPS !
    It'd be nice if you made a positive contribution once in a while instead of being the whiny opposition who brings up irrelevant points.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    It'd be nice if you made a positive contribution once in a while instead of being the whiny opposition who brings up irrelevant points.
    Oh, I'm sorry. do as we say, not as we do. Got it Ace.

    I have when it warrants it, but your posts are just sparring attempts it seems. I try to help ya out when I can.
    Last edited by Festus_Hagen; 05-17-2011 at 06:41 PM.

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by cash50 View Post
    It'd be nice if you made a positive contribution once in a while instead of being the whiny opposition who brings up irrelevant points.

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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by sohighlyunlikely View Post
    The only reason it's not "positive" is because I happen to disagree with you. Alot.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    Oh, I'm sorry. do as we say, not as we do. Got it Ace.

    I have when it warrants it, but your posts are just sparring attempts it seems. I try to help ya out when I can.
    Awww sheeet.

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    I think it's time for a group hug!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    The only reason it's not "positive" is because I happen to disagree with you. Alot.

    It would appear you disagree with a lot(2 words) of the people here on a regular basis. Is it possible there may be some differing of your ideology and the others in this movement.

    Doc

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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by sohighlyunlikely View Post
    It would appear you disagree with a lot(2 words) of the people here on a regular basis. Is it possible there may be some differing of your ideology and the others in this movement.

    Doc
    Oh, that's entirely possible. If that were the case, why does that make me "negative" if " there may be some differing of my ideology and the others in this movement " ? Can't there be other opinions that may not agree with yours ?

    As for "my" ideology in this "movement" , I'll clear it up for you so maybe it will give you some insight to where my "ideology" actually is .

    I carry an XD SC 9mm most of the time, it's lighter than my other XD's. I sometimes carry my XD .45 as well . 100% of the time I have a Ruger LCP in my pocket, while 95% of the time I have either one of the XD's on my hip. In an OWB holster. The other 5% I carry IWB for whatever reason I feel I need to. I go to eat, shop, work, whatever , with a gun ON MY HIP . That's right, I open carry.

    Now, I'm labeled as "one of those guys" . Guess what ? Sometime "those guys" don't get real good press, then people like "me" get a little more hassled over what "those guys" do.

    So do I disagree with some of you ?
    Yes.

    Do I try to force my opinion down your throats as the gospel?
    No.

    I don't go out in front of cop shops, coffee shops, city halls, etc to get a picture taken . I don't draw attention to myself, MAYBE that's why I NEVER get hassled by the cops that see me in Wally World or at Arby's. MAYBE people like Mr. Darrow who ALWAYS get hassled because he is being confrontational , I don't know. He's changed his story and left parts out so one can only assume that something bigger is going on. That something is not going on with me. Coincidence ? Maybe. Maybe not.


    So THAT is why I'm "negative" I guess . Because YOU can't get out of YOUR little self-absorbed world to see that YOU, are not near as important as YOU think YOU are, and that people such as "me" , may have a differing opinion that is not to your liking so we are "negative". It's America. That's what we do here, have opinions. I've got mine and will tell it, so tough it .

    Get over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sohighlyunlikely View Post
    It would appear you disagree with a lot(2 words) of the people here on a regular basis. Is it possible there may be some differing of your ideology and the others in this movement.

    Doc
    It's "slang" or "short" , like texting. Your grasping at straws now, man.

    And Doc, I think your the last one to talk about anyone's grammar. You've gotten better, so you must have found spell-check or something.

    Kudo's on that. J/K
    Last edited by Festus_Hagen; 05-18-2011 at 09:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony4310 View Post
    I think it's time for a group hug!
    {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{BIG HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}



    If you pull it, you use it. If you pull it and you don't use it, you've done some thing wrong and you might not get another chance. Think about it before you pack it!
    I worked 24/7 for 2A OC rights! Don't like what I did? Try it yourself, it was my full time job!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Festus_Hagen View Post
    The only reason it's not "positive" is because I happen to disagree with you. Alot.

    I disagree with Doc a bit too, guess what the cool part is, Doc respects all opinions and listens to others position, presents his own and do4es so without a negative slant on the opposing opinion.

    IMHO he does it a LOT better than others, significantly better than myself.

    Also IMHO, Festus, your comments often are instigating in nature, I feel I can say that because quite frankly there are many occasions where mine are indeed crafted in that manner and I find it easy to spot the same similarities.

    You see the photos as self promotion, I see them as support for those whom choose not to restrict. EVERY single event I have attended on "Doc's tour" were NOT photo ops, but indeed all participants spent monies with the business showing support for their support.

    Instead of being critical of what you do not understand, give one a shot and see if your impressions remain the same instead of stereotyping what you know nothing about.

    You are welcome to come to Chevy's and have dinner. I can almost guarantee someone is gonna take pictures and post em, just like we did when we went to Maplewood to at least try and make a difference.

    You can point and complain about what you do not know if that is how you choose to live, or you can come and see and then voice an informed opinion instead of whining from the cheap seats.

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    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Tiocfaidh Ar La

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    LMTD, if I was closer I would man, believe me. On the other hand, folks in the bigger cities don't have alot of luck it seems when it comes to OC. I'm happy here in the capitol city where they pretty much leave us alone. I'm not much of a big-city guy really...lol.

    As for me not agreeing with Doc and some others, I fully understand that people don't agree all the time, and I'm fine with that, it just seems they are not fine when I bring something up that was said or have a differing opinion. Like I said before, we can disagree without one of us being "wrong", especially when we are talking about " God give rights" and such. There is no ONE WAY to view it, there is multiple ways. Alot of folks get bent when your opinion is different than another's. I don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mspgunner View Post
    {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{BIG HUG}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}




    Is that a "pupmyer" grip or a "douge"?
    Last edited by LMTD; 05-19-2011 at 09:47 AM.

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