Most lawyers start at about $500 to take your case. Otherwise, I don't understand what you're proposing.
Thread: An idea that may turn the tide.
You guys tell me what you think.
(1)(b) The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is carrying a stun gun, concealed pistol or revolver and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. A violation of the provisions of this paragraph (b) shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of Twenty-five Dollars ($25.00) and shall be enforceable by summons.
Does anyone not have 25 bucks in their pocket or account? As I see it, one can lawyer up and fight this $25 fine. If you lose, pay the fine and lawyer, no harm done. If you win, that will be a big win for open carry. I'm not saying to brake the law. This was writen for people who forget their wallet in the car or at home. I'm still in my own legal battles right now, any takers?
Most lawyers start at about $500 to take your case. Otherwise, I don't understand what you're proposing.
According to the Mississippi constitution, the state can only regulate concealed weapons. Let's say someone forgets their permit at home while they OC and stopped by a LEO. You'll be summoned to pay the fine of $25. Now, you think the fine is unjust because your weapon was not concealed. So, now you fight to keep from paying the fine. If you win, the judge acknowaledges that you were not concealed. That may set a precedent how these cases are ruled. Does this make sense?
Lawyer cost may very, but the outcome may be worth it.
Last edited by DCKilla; 05-16-2011 at 08:37 PM. Reason: spelling
Have you tried starting a petition to get open carry restored in MS? If done right, they're pretty effective.
The $25 fine is just for not being able to show the ossifer your MFP. It pretty much has nothing to do with open carry. You could go the route of "well your honor, it WASN'T concealed, so I don't deserve this $25 fine", but it won't work. They'll claim it was "partly concealed and therefore concealed", and even if you DO have an MFP, you'll still be assessed the $25 for the infraction. This is a no win situation and has already been decided.
The ONLY way to be sure, is to get those three little words removed from 97-37-1. Now, HOW we do that, is above my pay grade, and I'll leave it to better minds than myself, but will go along with reasonable suggestions.
I've taken the time to post the civilr rule that provides remedy for this situation. I've offered ANY assistance I can give and yet it seems the good people of Mississippi would rather stick their heads in the sand!!
What the hell is wrong with you folks!! I KNOW you have intelligent people in your state. Ya'll just lazy or what??
The bottom line is that rule 57 is there for EXACTLY situations like this. It's there... use it.
If all ya'll do is keep b**ching about this "concealed in part" crap, well then you deserve the outcome of your efforts... nothing.
How 'bout someone starting a thread like "Finding an attorney that will file the lawsuit". Oh... here's a good thread topic "How do we take donations to hire an attorney to file the lawsuit under rule 57".
You don't even NEED an attorney to file the lawsuit, so if any of you would like to learn more about how to implement rule 57 then by all means start a thread... maybe something like "Who would be a party that MUST be properly served when filing a lawsuit under rule 57?" Or maybe "How much are the filing fees" Blah Blah...
Now, at the risk of hurting people's feeling... GET TO WORK!!!
Constitutional challenges go direct to the supreme court and from the looks of rule 57, harm does not have to be done first before the challenge is made. This means the constitutionality of "or in part" can be challenged without being arrested or fined or dealing with a lower court. I personally will not aid or suggest anyone do such as yet. MS has a recent history of the legislature liking the power of control over all forms of carry; a judge went out of his way to issue an opinion protecting such illegal controls. Until it is better known if the current judges would adhere to and protect the constitution or the states current power and an illegal opinion, such a law suit could do more harm than good.
I believe you are incorrect that "Constitutional challenges go directly to the supreme court."
Ms. Rule 57 of the civil rules states in the first sentence:
(a) Procedure. Courts of record within their respective jurisdictions may declare rights, status, and other legal relations regardless of whether further relief is or could be claimed.
Now according to the rules of APPELLATE procedure rule 16(a) and (b), the Supreme Court has appellate jurisdiction.
You are wise to consider political climate when considering such a remedy. However, this process should not be ignored as it is there for things exactly like this. This is the tool we're supposed to use when the legislature over steps it's bounds. We MUST not be afraid to use it.
Can you give us the specific example of this judge going "out of his way to issue an opinion protecting such illegal controls."? Was the judge you speak of on the SC? What case?
L.M., S.T. and D.S., minors, appeal from an adjudication of delinquency for carrying concealed weapons in violation of Miss.Code Ann. § 97-37-1 (1972). The Hancock County Youth Court ordered L.M. and S.T. to be committed to Oakley Training School, and placed D.S. on probation. We affirm the findings of the Youth Court regarding L.M., but find there is insufficient evidence to uphold the court's determination regarding D.S. and S.T.
At approximately 11:00 p.m. on July 9, 1988, Officer David Sellier was alerted by his sergeant that six black males, traveling in a blue Ford Fairmont with a Harrison County tag, were reportedly on their way to "shoot up" a beach party in Bay St. Louis. Shortly thereafter, he received a report of a shooting on the beach. When he arrived, he met several black juveniles who claimed someone had shot at them. After talking with the juveniles, he began to patrol the area and noticed a speeding blue Ford Fairmont with Harrison County plates. He then called for back-up support and "initiated felony stop procedures." Officer Sellier first searched the driver. After the other police officers arrived, the five passengers were searched. A vehicle search then resulted in the confiscation of four weapons secured under the hood. The police arrested all six youths and took them to the Hancock County Sheriff's Office.
During the trial, Charles Dedeaux, the driver of the car on the night in question, took the stand. According to Dedeaux's sworn testimony, he, L.M. and another minor had picked up the guns in North Gulfport. Neither S.T. nor D.S. was present *969 when they loaded the guns under the hood of the car. However, Dedeaux also stated that everyone in the car knew the guns were there because he discussed selling them on the drive from Gulfport to Waveland.
After the State rested, defense counsel moved for dismissal under the "traveling" or "taking a trip" defense as set forth in Miss.Code Ann. § 97-37-9(b) (1972). The judge ruled as follows:
Overruled as to that because I think it's the clear intention of subsection a [sic] that they would be on a journey and traveling from the distance from Pass Christian and Waveland is probably not more than four or five miles and I certainly don't think that the statute has the intention of just going from one little town to another so I overrule that.
This Court recently articulated the scope of review in youth court cases as follows:
Of course, in reviewing the evidence we do not proceed de novo. Rather, our scope of review is limited. We consider all of the evidence before the Youth Court in the light most favorable to the State. If the evidence so considered is opposed to the adjudication of the Youth Court with such force that reasonable men could not have found as the Youth Court did beyond a reasonable doubt, we must reverse. On the other hand, if there is substantial evidence in the record supporting the adjudication of the Youth Court, evidence of such quality and weight that, having in mind the beyond a reasonable doubt burden of proof standard, the Youth Court might reasonably have ruled as it did, we must affirm.
In re S.B., 566 So.2d 1276 (Miss.1990) (citations omitted).
 As we indicated in In Interest of T.D.B., 446 So.2d 598, 599 (Miss.1984), the Youth Court Judge, as the trier of fact, has "great authority and wide discretion ... in delinquency cases and disposition orders." He must, however, find beyond a reasonable doubt that the minor is delinquent as charged. Miss.Code Ann. § 43-21-561(1).
 To be found delinquent, a minor must have committed a delinquent act, that is one "which if committed by an adult, is designated as a crime under state or federal law, or municipal or county ordinance other than offenses punishable by life imprisonment." Miss.Code Ann. § 43-21-105(j). On July 21, 1988, the Hancock County Prosecutor filed petitions against sixteen-year-old D.S., seventeen-year-old S.T. and seventeen-year-old L.M. The petitions alleged identical violations as follows:
COUNT 1) that said child did in Hancock County, MS, on or about the 9th day of July, 1988, violate section 97-37-1 of the MS Code of 1972, Annotated, as he did unlawfully and wilfully carry concealed weapons, to-wit:
one R.G. INDUSTRIES .22 caliber revolver;
one R.G. INDUSTRIES .38 caliber revolver;
one 30-30 caliber Marlin lever action rifle; and
one .22 caliber sawed-off automatic rifle;
the same being concealed under the hood of a car.
COUNT 2) that said child did in Hancock County, MS, on or about the 9th day of July, 1988, violate section 97-35-15 of the MS Code of 1972, Annotated, as he did unlawfully and wilfully disturb the public peace by seeking to intimidate other persons, to-wit:
by discharging a firearm over the heads of a group of people on the beach.
At the hearing and pursuant to the State's motion, the Youth Court Judge dismissed Count 2 against the three youths. As to Count 1, all three denied the allegations of the petition.
 Miss.Code Ann. § 97-37-1 (1972) prohibits any person from carrying a concealed*970 weapon.FN1 We consider first whether transporting a weapon under the hood of a car constitutes "carrying" under the statute. The appellants contend that it was not the intent of the legislature, in its passage of Miss.Code Ann. § 97-37-1 (1972), to require that all transportation of weapons be carried out in the open. Rather, the intent of the statute is to prohibit a seemingly harmless individual from having a deadly weapon within his reach.
FN1. Miss.Code Ann. § 97-37-1(2) has been changed effective July 1, 1991, to read as follows:It shall not be a violation of this section for any person over the age of eighteen (18) years to carry a firearm or deadly weapon concealed in whole or in part within the confines of his own home or his place of business, or any real property associated with his home or business or within any motor vehicle.
In Clark v. City of Jackson, 155 Miss. 668, 124 So. 807 (1929) this Court addressed the issue of "carrying" under the statute. In Clark, the appellant appealed his conviction of carrying a concealed pistol. Clark, 155 Miss. at 669, 124 So. at 807. Clark had allegedly attempted to conceal a weapon by covering it with his feet on the floorboard of a car. Id. at 671, 124 So. at 807. This Court, in affirming Clark's conviction, stated as follows:
Whether appellant is guilty of carrying the pistol concealed depends on the determination of the question of what amounts to a "carrying." It will be observed that the statute does not define the crime as the carrying of the weapon concealed on the person; it is the carrying of it concealed in whole or in part that is denounced as a crime. The question is whether appellant was carrying the pistol, in the sense of the statute. It was lying in the foot of the car, with both of his feet on it in an effort to conceal it; his person was therefore in contact with the pistol, which was easily accessible to appellant-he had only to bend his body in order to reach down and take the pistol in his hand. The carrying is within the prohibition of the statute, where the weapon is so carried that it is readily accessible and available for use.
Id. at 672, 124 So. at 808 (citation omitted) (emphasis added).
The State argues that this Court did not define "carrying" in Clark, but instead reached the conclusion that when the weapon is readily available, it is certainly "carrying." The State cites in support of its position both Patterson v. State, 251 Miss. 565, 170 So.2d 635 (1965) (weapon found under front seat) and Morgan v. Town of Heidelberg, 246 Miss. 481, 150 So.2d 512 (Miss.1963) (weapon found under appellant's leg in vehicle). Patterson and Morgan are easily distinguishable from the case sub judice because the weapons involved in those cases were readily accessible and available for use.
 Next, appellants assert the "traveling" or "taking a trip" defense set forth in Miss.Code Ann. § 97-37-9(b), wherein any person charged with a violation of § 97-37-1 may show as a defense "that he was traveling and was not a tramp, or was setting out on a journey and was not a tramp."
In Morgan v. Town of Heidelberg, 246 Miss. 481, 491, 150 So.2d 512, 516 (1963) this Court defined "traveling" as "[t]he traveling or setting out on a journey, intended by the statute to be an excuse for carrying a concealed weapon, means a travel of such distance as to take one beyond the circle of his friends and acquaintances." This Court specifically addressed Miss.Code Ann. § 97-37-9(b) in Patterson v. State, 251 Miss. 565, 572, 170 So.2d 635, 638 (1965). It held that:
[T]he proof is sufficient to show that this defendant was traveling and was not a tramp, but had set out on a journey which did take him beyond the scope of his friends, and that his journey was a legitimate one in which he had a vital interest, related solely to his business, and he was not violating any statutes relating to the carrying of a concealed weapon.
*971 Further, in Joseph v. State, 299 So.2d 211, 213 (Miss.1974), this Court determined that the statute authorized the appellant to carry a concealed weapon because his employment as a disc jockey required him to travel 85 miles between two towns, carry money and transport musical equipment.
Appellants contend that the "traveling" or "taking a trip" defense is applicable to them since they were not residents of Hancock County where they were apprehended. The State argues that merely leaving one's county of domicile is not enough to establish that they were outside their circle of friends.
Patterson and Joseph demonstrate that more is needed to establish the "traveling" defense than merely leaving one county and entering another. Accordingly, the appellants' assertion that they were "traveling" or "taking a trip" falls short of establishing that defense.
  Finally, the appellants assert that there was insufficient evidence to establish that they knew that the weapons were in the vehicle. They contend that Dedeaux's testimony offers little to implicate D.S. and S.T. because the guns were already in place under the hood when he picked them up. Appellants also argue that although Dedeaux's testimony did implicate L.M., it was so substantially impeached that no fair-minded trier of fact could be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of his guilt.
 Considering all of the evidence in the light most favorable to the State, we hold that there is substantial evidence demonstrating that L.M. knew of the existence and was in constructive possession or control of the weapons in the vehicle. However, with regard to D.S. and S.T., we are reminded that "[g]uilt by association is neither a recognized nor tolerable concept in our criminal law." Davis v. State, 586 So.2d 817, 821 (Miss.1991); Pryor v. State, 239 So.2d 911, 912 (Miss.1970); Matula v. State, 220 So.2d 833, 836 (Miss.1969). The State failed to adduce adequate evidence to show that D.S. and S.T. had knowledge, possession or control of the guns. Merely riding in the vehicle where the guns were stashed falls short of even constructive possession. Davis, 586 So.2d at 821. Accordingly, we affirm the Youth Court's adjudication of L.M. and reverse and render with regard to S.T. and D.S.
AFFIRMED IN PART, REVERSED AND RENDERED IN PART.
ROY NOBLE LEE, C.J., HAWKINS, P.J., and PRATHER and PITTMAN, JJ., concur.
DAN M. LEE, P.J., concurs in results only.
ROY NOBLE LEE, C.J., files separate concurring opinion, joined by DAN M. LEE, P.J.
BANKS, J., filed separate written dissent, joined by ROBERTSON AND SULLIVAN, JJ.
ROY NOBLE LEE, Chief Justice, concurring:
I concur with the majority opinion, but I think more should be said about carrying concealed weapons.
One of the first cases I undertook as a young lawyer was the defense of a man charged with carrying a concealed weapon. I thought his defense would be simple and easy until I learned what the statute meant. To my amazement, I discovered that carrying a concealed weapon in whole or in part even meant that a revolver carried in a holster on a man's hip was a partially concealed weapon, riding a horse with a saddle holster and revolver under a person's leg violated the statute; and that covering a weapon with feet, hands, or clothing meant that the weapon was concealed under the interpretation of the statute. Conceivably, carrying a revolver suspended from the neck by a leather throng could be partially concealing it. (One Western gunfighter used that method.)
The reasons for the strict interpretation of the statute were that many years ago people carried firearms for their protection-usually partially concealed as in holsters. People were also prone to settle *972 their differences by fist fights and it was fairly common to see such incidents occur in public places. If a person was prone to provoke a fight with a seemingly unarmed man, he could easily be killed or injured in the event his adversary was carrying a concealed weapon. If the weapon had been visible probably no altercation would have occurred.
I do not believe that it was the intention of the statute to include "carrying" a concealed weapon as having the weapon in the trunk of an automobile or buggy, in the glove compartment or console of an automobile or the compartment of a surrey or in a valise, suitcase or traveling bag (not airplanes).
I further agree that § 97-37-9(b) exempting the traveler from the prohibition of carrying a concealed weapon "outside the circle of his friends" is a laudable provision. See Patterson v. State, 251 Miss. 565, 170 So.2d 635 (1965). It is common knowledge that, under some such circumstances and in such situations, people must have protection and their "equalizer" with them. This provision and exemption have been a part of our law for more than one hundred years and it is still vibrant and strong today. In olden day, the statute meant a travel of some distance to take one beyond the circle of his friends and acquaintances, because they usually knew everybody within fifty miles. See McGuirk v. State, 64 Miss. 209, 1 So. 103 (1887); Morgan v. Town of Heidelberg, 246 Miss. 481, 150 So.2d 512 (1963). I note, without advocating an abrogation of the rule, that in these modern times when people reside in cities, with thousands of inhabitants, they frequently do not know their neighbors in the next block and certainly not in the next neighborhoods or across the city. Within two or three blocks, they are outside the circle of their friends.
DAN M. LEE, P.J., joins this opinion.
BANKS, Justice, dissenting:
Our concealed weapons statute is directed at weapons which are readily accessible to the person charged with "carrying" them. Clark v. City of Jackson, 155 Miss. 668, 124 So. 807 (1929). Here the weapons in question were under the hood of an automobile. Clearly, they were not accessible within the meaning of our law. While we have no cases on point, other courts have made the common sense finding that a weapon under a hood is not readily accessible. People v. Cook, 46 Ill.App.3d 511, 5 Ill.Dec. 81, 361 N.E.2d 81 (1977). The majority agrees and distinguishes cases where the weapons were found in the passenger compartment of vehicles. Ante, p. 970. It follows that L.M. cannot be found delinquent based on that charge.
The majority's conclusion that there was sufficient evidence to support a finding that L.M. was in the possession and control of the weapons does nothing for the delinquency finding. L.M. was not charged with illegal possession of firearms. Indeed, and perhaps unfortunately, it is not illegal for a minor to possess handguns or any other firearm in this state. Nor was such a charge lodged. While it is a federal offense to possess certain "sawed-off" weapons, no charge was made pursuant to that statute and no attempt was made to prove such a violation.
Part III of the majority opinion and its disposition with regard to L.M. then is wholly at odds with Part I and the law. Because our laws are inadequate to deal with the realities of modern society we must, if we are to be true to our oaths, hold that no act of delinquency was committed and reverse and render as to all charges. Because we do not, I dissent.
ROBERTSON and SULLIVAN, JJ., join this dissent.
Appeals which go directly to the Supreme Court include annexations, bond issues, constitutionality challenges, death penalty cases, disciplinary matters involving attorneys and judges, election contests, certified questions from federal court, utility rates, cases of first impression and issues of broad public interest.
I'm well aware of L.M., Jr. v. State, 600 So.2d 967 (Miss. 1992). SO what?? It's already been stated in more than one thread that this is just dicta from a concurring opinion... Not only that, if you read Justice Lee's words, you will see that he understands that there WAS a reason for the strict interpretation of the law... but implies perhaps not anymore. Finally, Justice Lee is no longer a member of the esteemed SC so what has this got to do with how we approach things now?? Most important is understanding how precedent is applied... Do some research on this.
As for the appeals going directly to the supreme court, that is NOT what you said... you said "constitutional challenges go directly to the supreme court". This is INCORRECT. APPEALS to constitutional challenges go directly to the supreme court. Rule 57 puts the court of ORIGINAL jurisdiction with "courts of record within their respective jurisdiction". I posted the LAW on this... your link is simply a summation of the law... and AGREES with what I wrote.
Any other reasons why we should continue to NOT use this tool??
Again my main reason for not wanting to proceed yet is a lack of knowledge about the CURRENT MS supreme court judges. I am trying to read their judgements and ascertain if they are constitutional defenders and originalists or progressives that will usurp the constitution when doing so will help a statist agenda. As it is the one opinion that could hurt the constitutional protections is weak, I think the best way to protect our liberties is to proceed with caution and a good idea of what the outcome will be not what we hope it to be. If a case comes before the MS supreme court and they decide all carry is CC and thus under the State's power then the only way to win back freedom is to amend the constitution and take away the provision that allows the regulation or prohibition of CC. THAT would be a hard battle, I would rather try such after securing OC not definitively loosing OC.
I agree with you about not proceeding YET. However lets define proceed...
We should learn everything we can about how to implemet rule 57, whether we wish to use an attorney, which attorney, the costs, the appropriate district in which to file etc RIGHT NOW!! This IS not proceeding YET!!
Proceeding would be the actual filing of the lawsuit. We cannot proceed now becasue we don't now how... we should not wait to get PREPARED to proceed.
Getting an idea of the political disposition of the MS. SC is most certainly a wise thing to do. However, we can't let fear be the ultimate excuse for non-action. We have a tool... we MUST learn how to use it and when.
Last edited by georg jetson; 05-19-2011 at 03:57 PM.
Why are you bringing up "new rights"??
I was referring to amending the MS constitution to eliminate the clause that allows for the regulation or prohibition of carrying concealed weapons and strengthening the protections to not allow any regulation of anything to do with carrying or keeping arms no mater if the arms are concealed or open. I'm sorry if I was unclear.If a case comes before the MS supreme court and they decide all carry is CC and thus under the State's power then the only way to win back freedom is to amend the constitution and take away the provision that allows the regulation or prohibition of CC. THAT would be a hard battle, I would rather try such after securing OC not definitively loosing OC.
Louisiana's BIGGEST OCing issue is the fed gun free school zone law. I intend to help states get organized to fight this as it is a national problem... In the mean time I see a solution to the problem in Ms. it's just a shame that nothing is getting done.
In any case, there's a whole list of smart, educated people in Ms. We can get cracking on this and you can pitch in when you have time.
Let's start seeing the threads on RUle 57!! We've got work to do
Last edited by georg jetson; 05-19-2011 at 05:30 PM.
I will admit, it's a valiant try though!
READ the FRICKIN RULE!!! Geez!!! Do I have to hold your hand??
(b) When Available.
Any person interested under a deed, will, written contract, or other writings constituting a contract, or whose rights, status, or other legal relations are affected by a statute, municipal ordinance, contract or franchise, may have determined any question of construction or validity arising under the instrument, statute, ordinance, contract, or franchise, and obtain a declaration of rights, status or other legal relations thereunder.
Specifically THIS "or whose rights, status, or other legal relations are affected by a statute, municipal ordinance".
DO YOU SEE THE WORD STATUTE??!!! Reading is FUNdamental.