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Thread: Firearms banned at Muskegon Summer Celebration

  1. #1
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    Firearms banned at Muskegon Summer Celebration

    MOC has initiated contact with the directors of the Muskegon Summer Celebration. http://www.summercelebration.com/
    They have a firearm ban we are working to reverse. Stay tuned for updates.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Thanks for initiating contact! I hope they respond to you as they ignored me last year... of course now we have examples! That helps I think.

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    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member WilDChilD's Avatar
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    Good this bullsh!t has gone on long enough. I live on the west side and take many trips to the coast over the summer so this is one i am very interested in. I also would like to know if they have any seating like the web site suggest. Looks like you bring your own chair so I dont think that would qualify. Iam getting my popcorn and going to sit back and enjoy the updates on this one. If there is anything the masses can do let us know.

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    Heritage landing is county owned correct?

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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Nice... one victory, and on to the next!!!! I like the way you operate!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jm62383 View Post
    Heritage landing is county owned correct?
    Yes. If anyone can get there hands on a copy of the contract between the promoters and the county(I'm assuming county since it's held on county property), it would be much appreciated.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I recall that we had a thread from last year that may have had much information that would be useful... probably gone when the switch happened. I'll see what I can dig up. As I recall, I believe Crimdoc may have OC'd there... or maybe cc???
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Yes. If anyone can get there hands on a copy of the contract between the promoters and the county(I'm assuming county since it's held on county property), it would be much appreciated.
    The License Agreement starts at page 5 of the following document. Additionally, the document states "that this Agreement contains the entire understanding and agreement of the parties"... so I think this is it.

    http://www.co.muskegon.mi.us/boardof...d_11_04_21.pdf
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    The License Agreement starts at page 5 of the following document. Additionally, the document states "that this Agreement contains the entire understanding and agreement of the parties"... so I think this is it.

    http://www.co.muskegon.mi.us/boardof...d_11_04_21.pdf
    From the looks of it, this should be a slam dunk. There is more than one statement on that contract that says the licensee shall follow all state laws. Good luck with this one guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrTodd View Post
    The License Agreement starts at page 5 of the following document. Additionally, the document states "that this Agreement contains the entire understanding and agreement of the parties"... so I think this is it.

    http://www.co.muskegon.mi.us/boardof...d_11_04_21.pdf
    Thanks. The County Commissioners have been emailed.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Good to go guys! Thanks MOC OCDO!
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    What I like is their selective omission of the word "seating."

    Firearms are not allowed at any Summer Celebration venue even with a permit. Heritage Landing is an entertainment venue with a capacity greater than 2,500.
    And of course, the law actually reads:
    28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection
    (1); violation; penalties.
    (f) An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500 or more...
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 05-19-2011 at 12:12 AM.
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    Hello Big Al ,

    Assuming that the celebration venue has a ''seating'' capacity of more than 2500 (which offcourse is nonsense),doesn't that only apply to those who do not have a CPL?

    I can't see any justification for this ban.

    Good night

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    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightstrike View Post
    Hello Big Al ,

    Assuming that the celebration venue has a ''seating'' capacity of more than 2500 (which offcourse is nonsense),doesn't that only apply to those who do not have a CPL?

    I can't see any justification for this ban.

    Good night
    Unfortunately, the seating cap ban is from the CPL list of PFZs. However, there is no corresponding prohibition listed on the places where firearms can be OCed. In addition, I think AG opinion 7120 would prevail here that says:
    It is my opinion, therefore, that a municipal outdoor recreation park does not, by itself, constitute an “entertainment facility” within the meaning of section 5o(1)(f) of the Concealed Pistol Licensing Act, and thus is not a gun-free zone as established by that statute.

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    In many ways, good old Jenny was a much better AG than she ever was a governor. ;)
    Big Gay Al
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    Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal FNX-45 .45ACP 16 rounds of hurt.

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    Regular Member Onnie's Avatar
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    from the pictures ive seen there are no seats the "seating" area is all grass and you bring in your own lawn chairs
    When Guns are OUTLAWED, Ill be an OUTLAW
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    1) Muskegon County classifies Heritage Landing as a park / beach.

    2) Parks are not entertainment facilities.
    http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/da...0s/op10195.htm

    3) Heritage Landing does have a structure (a pavilion), but its seating capacity is not 2500. Entertainment facilities need 2500 seats to qualify for 5o(1)(f) of the CPLA. And as mentioned in opinion 7120, if the park did have a pavilion capable of seating 2500, only that portion of the park would be restricted.

    4) Even if it did have 2500 seats and was an entertainment facility, you can still open carry, which is probably what you were planning on doing anyway.

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    Has anyone heard anything back yet?

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    Second email sent last week, no response. I'll be calling Monday.
    Last edited by scot623; 06-04-2011 at 09:10 PM.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Good luck... they are most likely stonewalling hoping to make it through another year with their little nazi policy in place.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Auto it looks like it might be time to go for another ride this year to Muskegon summer celebration,

    Last year it was a ride to New Era, i thought that that went rather well !

    I am up for a ride, if this can't be settled, (ps) cabman has his bike this year also!

    CALLING ALL OC BIKERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONTACT AUTO ! HEHEHE !!!
    Last edited by mastiff69; 06-04-2011 at 11:03 PM.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastiff69 View Post
    Auto it looks like it might be time to go for another ride this year to Muskegon summer celebration,

    Last year it was a ride to New Era, i thought that that went rather well !

    I am up for a ride, if this can't be settled, (ps) cabman has his bike this year also!

    CALLING ALL OC BIKERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CONTACT AUTO ! HEHEHE !!!
    Hmmm that could be a fun time

    Closer too!
    Last edited by autosurgeon; 06-05-2011 at 12:09 AM.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    I spoke with an attorney working for the county last week. He pointed out the portion of the use permit requiring all state and local laws be followed. He said the issue is with the operators of the festival. I finally talked to the director of the festival, Joe, again today. He said it's been a confusing process and that he and the Muskegon Police Cheif are working together to get this all sorted out. The signage banning firearms in the concert areas will be taken down! Victory!! I asked if the website will be updated to reflect that and he said yes. The only remaining issue they are working on is firearm carry in the beer tent/liquor licensed areas. It was the Cheifs assertion a ban would be legal. I refered him to the correct information regarding OC with a CPL(MSP update 86) and expect no issues in those areas as well. If I hear any new updates, I will relay them.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Great Job! Thanks for all you do...

    Please make sure that this is posted at MGO as well...

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Many thanks to MOC and especially Scott623. This is further testament to my belief that MOC is THE organization for firearm rights in Michigan...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  25. #25
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    True to their word all reference to guns has been removed!

    http://www.summercelebration.com/festival-rules
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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