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Thread: Philly Police Harass, Threaten to Shoot Man

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    Regular Member redboneshadow's Avatar
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    Philly Police Harass, Threaten to Shoot Man

    A story in today’s Philadelphia Daily News shows why it’s so important that citizens be allowed to videotape cops – it can be citizens’ only way to fight back against police abuse of power.

    http://goo.gl/zrpDy

    This is happening all over and it is getting out of control.

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    Regular Member Bucks Gun Shop's Avatar
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    Yanno... I really feel for the job that LEO has to do... Our legal system, our court system, and everything else favors the criminal... That said, what appears to have gone on here is wrong... Just another example of where I feel our entire country has lost its priorities... Stuff like this truly saddens me...
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucks Gun Shop View Post
    Yanno... I really feel for the job that LEO has to do... Our legal system, our court system, and everything else favors the criminal... That said, what appears to have gone on here is wrong... Just another example of where I feel our entire country has lost its priorities... Stuff like this truly saddens me...
    I agree they have a tough job to do, and they do it willingly and voluntarily.

    The legal/court system does not 'favor' the criminal...

    Our legal system, by design, favors the inherent rights of Man. This is a fundamental shift in thinking from your statement and not an attack, but a comprehensive and fundamentally different look at the line we often hear from society.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Our legal system, by design, favors the inherent rights of Man. This is a fundamental shift in thinking from your statement and not an attack, but a comprehensive and fundamentally different look at the line we often hear from society.
    It used to - it was intended to - but I do not believe that it still does what you suggest all the time.
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    And now they have charged him with indangering the public because they overreacted and somebody may have gotten hurt. They say it is his fault that the cops on scene didnt know the law well enough to realize that he had done nothing wrong and because of him they had their guns out and may have hurt someone. Un-freaking-Believable!!

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    It used to - it was intended to - but I do not believe that it still does what you suggest all the time.
    What do I suggest all the time?
    Live Free or Die!

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucks Gun Shop View Post
    Yanno... I really feel for the job that LEO has to do... Our legal system, our court system, and everything else favors the criminal... That said, what appears to have gone on here is wrong... Just another example of where I feel our entire country has lost its priorities... Stuff like this truly saddens me...
    Cops used to get my respect until they proved theirselves unworthy of such respect. Now I view all cops with distrust and very little respect (though I will still be polite) until the particular cop I'm dealing with earns some trust/respect.

    The reason for my shift in views? Because too many cops are abusing their power and aren't being held responsible for bad behavior. Should things change and the situation were to improve (not likely so long as the union stays in place and makes it next to impossible to remove bad cops among other things) then I would be willing to view cops as a whole with more trust/respect again. But without changes sadly the "bad eggs" have ruined the whole bunch in my eyes.

    Hell just yesterday I asked a cop about what someone would be charged with for OCing here (it's currently viewed as illegal, but there's a potentially "loophole" as the liberals would say, for it to be legal). He told me that it would be a misdemenor unless you have a CWP at which point it would be a felony. But when I asked just what you would be charged with and just what law makes it illegal to OC he couldn't answer me and tried to change subjects. How is he supposed to be enforcing the law when he can't even tell me what I would be charged with (I don't need the exact numbers of the law, just a general "charged with X"). And this is rampant throughout the states of the cops not knowing what they're supposedly enforcing. And how can you properly enforce that which you don't properly know.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    if you listen to the audio file at about the 11 min mark, you can hear the officer on the phone(?) asking about carrying a firearm in the open.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vUYeJXSrA
    Last edited by Bill Starks; 05-18-2011 at 12:10 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Crime!

    The crime committed if you listen carefully....

    not listening to an officer!
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member maclean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    What do I suggest all the time?
    Poor grammar - I was meaning to say that the legal system does not perform as you suggest consistently.

    "All the time" meant consistently, with regularity, etc.
    Squeak!

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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    A private citizen is required to know the law well enough to avoid (at the least) breaches of the peace, and expected to know the rest of it well. Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense, after all.

    Cops routinely don't know the law even to the minimum standard expected of private citizens, yet a cop has sworn an oath to uphold and enforce the law, while the private citizen (usually) hasn't.

    So why are cops consistently held to a lower standard of education on the law, and forgiven to such a greater degree when they trip over it?

    What would happen to a private citizen who made a citizen's arrest of a uniformed cop, for impersonating a police officer, and held him at gunpoint while refusing any and all offers by the cop to prove he really was a cop?

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Poor grammar - I was meaning to say that the legal system does not perform as you suggest consistently.

    "All the time" meant consistently, with regularity, etc.
    Thank you for the clarification.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    The crime committed if you listen carefully....

    not listening to an officer!
    I think in our state it is called "Obstructing Justice", I would think there would have to be an injustice to have occurred for someone to get in the way and obstruct. But isnt it our court system that is supposed to impose justice, and didnt they used to call judges "justice of the peace?

    I think laws are written so they can be molded to fit who ever has the most money or the most power. It is just too bad there are not bigger consequences for unjust behavior by law enforcement officers, and test specifically on law, that they should have to take to be an officer. Maybe by the time they finished all their studying and took the classes they would be mature enough to handle being in public with the power of the badge. Officers should be held in the same accordance of the law as the average citizen. If they commit a felony than they lose the ability to carry a firearm. They should not have to go up in front of a review board, they should have to go in front of a jury of their peers, which should be us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    I agree they have a tough job to do, and they do it willingly and voluntarily.
    Thats the key right there. If they are cannot or are not willing to do it correctly and within all guidelines, policies, and laws then they should be required to step down.
    Last edited by joeroket; 05-18-2011 at 10:26 AM.
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    Thats the key right there. If they are cannot or are not willing to do it correctly and within all guidelines, policies, and laws then they should be required to step down.
    Tell that to a Seattle Officer. Better yet, tell it to their abrasive Union Rep Sgt. Rich O'Neill. His public attitude seems to be "If you don't like how we do our job Go F&#@ yourself".
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    British Columbia has just announced that they will be forming a citizen's review board to investigate misconduct by police at all levels. My only concern is that it will be staffed with former police officers and political appointees but I think it's a step in the right direction.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    there are 4 parts to the audio, part 2 is just background audio, part 3 has an officer asking his name and SSN, age and other personal info. Part 4 has them releasing and lying to him....

    Audio file:
    part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vUY...layer_embedded

    part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igt-v...layer_embedded

    part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFDBk...layer_embedded

    part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIu1_...layer_embedded

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclean View Post
    Poor grammar - I was meaning to say that the legal system does not perform as you suggest consistently.

    "All the time" meant consistently, with regularity, etc.
    I'll that it rarely works like was designed to any more.

    We need to go back to a time when there were no public prosecutors looking for reelection or political advancement.

    We need to go back to a time when courts through out cases that lacked mens rea.

    We need to roll back the amount of involvement Police have in peoples lives.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    if you listen to the audio file at about the 11 min mark, you can hear the officer on the phone(?) asking about carrying a firearm in the open.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vUYeJXSrA

    and....i don't recall exactly what time stamp...but you will that officer say "we only just recently learned about this"...or something to that effect...

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I
    We need to go back to a time when courts through out cases that lacked mens rea.
    Are you saying that courts totally disregarded actus reus. The fact that the person comitted the crime had no relevance in the case before the Court?

    Isn't it job of the Jury to be the trier of fact? To determine if there was actus reus? And use mens rea to assess the level of punishment to be levied? The prosecutor is merely there to present the facts, the rest is up to a jury.

    FWIW, the modern penal code is pretty much in english now. Latin is even fading away in the most Latin of institutions, the Catholic Church.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    What I am saying that actus reas without mens rea should not even be prosecuted and brought before the jury. Never mind the fact that the judge and prosecutor now totally ignore nullification and give the jurors strict orders on how to rule. What we have now is cases like Josh's. Josh did nothing illegal yet was charged and found guilty of a crime.

    When prosecutors and judges allow prosecutors and law enforcement to proceed with these type of cases, it destroys/has destroyed the legal system which was intended to be a protection for us against government not the other way around.

    Oliver Wendell holmes shows the important of intent in his statement that "even a dog distinguishes between being stumbled over and being kicked". Yet many in our legal system and those who support them would want us to believe there is no difference.

    I would also like to point out that the saying "ignorance is no excuse" has no founding and no place in our legal system. Yet this has become quite the common saying.

    Juries do have the duty to judge based on facts but also on the above reasoning I pointed out. Prosecutors should be interested in "all the facts" of the case and presenting them equally and not in just winning a conviction.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    This Audio speaks! No doubt the officer was stark raven mad, and his idiotic temperament escalated the situation before he spoke his first word s of hey Junior. But, if I have a stark raving mad Officer with fire in his eyes, addressing as hey Junior, me in his sights, and agitated to no end, with a vocabulary of ****, ****, and more **** I think I would do as he says. Why, to ensure he’s the defendant, and not me, or worse dead by this madmans fatal shot.

    Add: On the last audio did I hear at time approx 7:38 a voice say you're not reporting me after some mention of internal affairs?
    Last edited by jbone; 05-19-2011 at 06:43 PM.

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    What do we do about it???
    This wont stop until we make it stop.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    What do we do about it???
    Start an organization and go national, a social movement! Just as the gay and Lesbians, illegal aliens, civil rights and so-on. It's a numbers game with strong political and special interest $ backing. OCDO is a movement, talking about LE abuse of power on OCDO is just talking.
    Last edited by jbone; 05-19-2011 at 07:07 PM.

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