rcav8r
Regular Member
Greg Leck is the chief of police in the city of Stoughton, and president of the Wisconsin Police Chiefs Association
Here is my original Email:
Dear Chief Leck,
You were recently quoted in the Jansevill Gazzette Xtra as following:
“This bill allows just about anyone to carry a loaded gun just about anywhere in public, even though research shows that allowing more people to carry guns in more places will lead to one thing—more tragedies,” said Stoughton Police Chief Greg Leck, president of the association."
Could you please give me a source for your information? Everything else I've seen has been to the contrary, being lower crime rates, or no change. Numerous FBI and 3rd party studies have shown this to be the case. 48 states so far and counting.
To be sure, I disagree with your anti-gun stance, and that of the police chiefs association. I sincerely hope that when concealed carry passes in either form in Wisconsin, that you will not allow your hate to carry over into your duties or policies, or those of your officers.
Here is his responce I just got:
I don’t really understand your statement about my “hate”? Nothing could be further from the truth. There is no “hate” as you call it at all and what little opinion that you must have of law enforcement if you believe that we would be anything but professional with whatever laws are legally enacted.
I am, as well as the WI Chiefs of Police Association, strong supporters of our 2 nd Amendment rights and we would support a good Concealed Carry Bill. Neither of the Bills being offered at this point provide enough strength to keep people that should not be allowed to carry concealed from doing so. Further, we wouldn’t let someone drive a vehicle without training why should we have fear of training people before they carry a concealed weapons. We Chiefs believe in the need to properly vet and train and then issue a permit prior to carrying concealed. Permitting is not for keeping tabs on who owns guns it is to ensure people are qualified to carry concealed. Much like requiring voter ID. As with current law, no one is denied any rights under the 2 nd Amendment but concealed carry should require special consideration. Police chiefs have an obligation to keep everyone safe, especially the thousand of police officers we represent. The prospect of facing hundreds or even thousands of non-felon street gang members all carrying legal concealed weapons is not a comforting thought. Would it be for you, even if armed?
From your comments it does not appear that you have even read the complete bills being offered. Unfortunately, you only quote one comment of many that was released on behalf of the WI Chiefs of Police. The rest of our comments include just what I said previously, we would support a Concealed Carry Bill that is good for WI. Wisconsin has some of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. We don’t want to see that changed. Also, I could never support legislation that requires more stringent measures to allow retired police officers to carry concealed then it does of regular citizens who have never carried weapons. That’s what included in these current Bills along with other provisions that don’t appear good for WI.
As for statistics, please go beyond just the FBI violent crimes (even though those statistics support our comments) and look at gun violence statistics. They include accidents, suicides, non-homicide shootings, and the rest of the story. I don’t rely on the NRA or the liberal anti-gun lobby for any information as both will slant their information to meet their respective message. For additional information, start with the University of WI School of Medicine. Even though they are often considered liberal, they compile their information from law enforcement, EMS, and hospital records and are fairly unbiased in their gun violence reporting.
By the way, I am an avid hunter, gun enthusiast, and have been carry a concealed weapon for over 32 years. I carry off duty because of the obligation that my profession ethically requires me to act to defend others if I need to. Not a day has gone by in that 32 years that I haven’t questioned on whether my training is good enough to be successful when needed. I continue to train accordingly and would not consider carrying without proper training.
Gregory W. Leck
Chief of Police
Stoughton Police Department
321 S. Fourth Street
Stoughton, WI 53589
(608) 873-3374
gleck@ci.stoughton.wi.us
Heres my draft response...kinda wordy, and I will wait awhile to edit it and incorporate any suggestions:
Dear Chief Leck
Please understand that I do not have any dislike of the law enforcement community.
What I dislike is that the law enforcement leadership keeps coming out against concealed carry every time it is introduced.
The Wisconsin Chief Police Association, as I understand it, is associated itself with Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort (WAVE). WAVE is purely an anti-gun association, funded in by the anti-gun Joyce Foundation. WAVE doesn't even do anything with actual violence prevention, except calls for gun control. They run surveys within their own membership then make claims the survey reflects the will of the state/country/whatever. They don't even allow posting of facts on their own facebook page. Post a fact countering their claims, it gets deleted and the user kicked out in short order. Did you by any chance listen to Jeri B's (head of WAVE) testimony? Not one fact. Just emotion and sweeping generalizations.
If WCPA is not associated with WAVE, I would strongly suggest such as statement be released to that effect, because most of the gun community believes it to be so. WAVE is about nothing but hate towards inanimate objects, So by association, I believe that is the WCPA's stance also.
I wish all police chiefs were as supportive as you make the WCPA to be. We have Milwaukee's chief, Ed Flynn, who told his officers to "prone them" when it came to open carriers, regardless of what they, the open carriers, were doing. Madison's chief Noble Wray has stated in so many words that open carriers need to be stopped and checked out every time there is a citizen complaint, even if the open carrier has done nothing wrong.
Seeing as how it is already illegal for felons and mentally incompetent to own firearms, much less carry them concealed, but they already do so without regard to the law, and these bills do nothing to change that. Those thousands of street gang members you mention, can, and do carry, without worrying about whether the law says you can already. My level of concern will not increase when this law passes, but I will at least have increased confidence that I will not be their victim if they decide I'm a target. These thugs will not seek out formal training, if any. On that same note, driving a car is a privilege, not a right, and yet cars kill and injure about 5 times as many people as guns. In fact, hospitals and Doctors, who are licensed and permitted, are one of the leading causes of death in this country, way ahead of firearms.
As you know, law abiding citizens in the state of Wisconsin can already open carry, with restrictions. I have done so many times. I have had no formal training classes. I practice often. Gun safety has been taught to me via friends and family, which is as traditional as the annual deer hunt. What is the difference if I cover the gun with a piece of fabric? Unfortunately, I can't carry in most of downtown Stoughton because of the feel-good gun free school zone laws.
I do know that police officers are trained to approach every situation as if all parties were armed. The current bills would not change this, so why is this constantly brought up?
As the Supreme Court of the United States have ruled, police have no legal obligation to protect anyone. I know the average police officer feels the obligation to do so, but they cannot, so we must protect ourselves or our loved ones by any means available. .
I have indeed read the bills. I don't see mandated training as necessary. One doesn't need training to practice their first amendment rights, although it would seem that some so called journalists do need it. I feel that any law abiding citizen who feels the need to carry a firearm but has no experience in handling one will voluntarily seek it out.
I have looked at many, many statistics, read many research articles and books on gun laws, pro and con, from all sides of the spectrum. I recommend a couple of items. One would be John Lotts "More Guns Less Crime", and gunfacts.info.
Here is my original Email:
Dear Chief Leck,
You were recently quoted in the Jansevill Gazzette Xtra as following:
“This bill allows just about anyone to carry a loaded gun just about anywhere in public, even though research shows that allowing more people to carry guns in more places will lead to one thing—more tragedies,” said Stoughton Police Chief Greg Leck, president of the association."
Could you please give me a source for your information? Everything else I've seen has been to the contrary, being lower crime rates, or no change. Numerous FBI and 3rd party studies have shown this to be the case. 48 states so far and counting.
To be sure, I disagree with your anti-gun stance, and that of the police chiefs association. I sincerely hope that when concealed carry passes in either form in Wisconsin, that you will not allow your hate to carry over into your duties or policies, or those of your officers.
Here is his responce I just got:
I don’t really understand your statement about my “hate”? Nothing could be further from the truth. There is no “hate” as you call it at all and what little opinion that you must have of law enforcement if you believe that we would be anything but professional with whatever laws are legally enacted.
I am, as well as the WI Chiefs of Police Association, strong supporters of our 2 nd Amendment rights and we would support a good Concealed Carry Bill. Neither of the Bills being offered at this point provide enough strength to keep people that should not be allowed to carry concealed from doing so. Further, we wouldn’t let someone drive a vehicle without training why should we have fear of training people before they carry a concealed weapons. We Chiefs believe in the need to properly vet and train and then issue a permit prior to carrying concealed. Permitting is not for keeping tabs on who owns guns it is to ensure people are qualified to carry concealed. Much like requiring voter ID. As with current law, no one is denied any rights under the 2 nd Amendment but concealed carry should require special consideration. Police chiefs have an obligation to keep everyone safe, especially the thousand of police officers we represent. The prospect of facing hundreds or even thousands of non-felon street gang members all carrying legal concealed weapons is not a comforting thought. Would it be for you, even if armed?
From your comments it does not appear that you have even read the complete bills being offered. Unfortunately, you only quote one comment of many that was released on behalf of the WI Chiefs of Police. The rest of our comments include just what I said previously, we would support a Concealed Carry Bill that is good for WI. Wisconsin has some of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. We don’t want to see that changed. Also, I could never support legislation that requires more stringent measures to allow retired police officers to carry concealed then it does of regular citizens who have never carried weapons. That’s what included in these current Bills along with other provisions that don’t appear good for WI.
As for statistics, please go beyond just the FBI violent crimes (even though those statistics support our comments) and look at gun violence statistics. They include accidents, suicides, non-homicide shootings, and the rest of the story. I don’t rely on the NRA or the liberal anti-gun lobby for any information as both will slant their information to meet their respective message. For additional information, start with the University of WI School of Medicine. Even though they are often considered liberal, they compile their information from law enforcement, EMS, and hospital records and are fairly unbiased in their gun violence reporting.
By the way, I am an avid hunter, gun enthusiast, and have been carry a concealed weapon for over 32 years. I carry off duty because of the obligation that my profession ethically requires me to act to defend others if I need to. Not a day has gone by in that 32 years that I haven’t questioned on whether my training is good enough to be successful when needed. I continue to train accordingly and would not consider carrying without proper training.
Gregory W. Leck
Chief of Police
Stoughton Police Department
321 S. Fourth Street
Stoughton, WI 53589
(608) 873-3374
gleck@ci.stoughton.wi.us
Heres my draft response...kinda wordy, and I will wait awhile to edit it and incorporate any suggestions:
Dear Chief Leck
Please understand that I do not have any dislike of the law enforcement community.
What I dislike is that the law enforcement leadership keeps coming out against concealed carry every time it is introduced.
The Wisconsin Chief Police Association, as I understand it, is associated itself with Wisconsin Anti-Violence Effort (WAVE). WAVE is purely an anti-gun association, funded in by the anti-gun Joyce Foundation. WAVE doesn't even do anything with actual violence prevention, except calls for gun control. They run surveys within their own membership then make claims the survey reflects the will of the state/country/whatever. They don't even allow posting of facts on their own facebook page. Post a fact countering their claims, it gets deleted and the user kicked out in short order. Did you by any chance listen to Jeri B's (head of WAVE) testimony? Not one fact. Just emotion and sweeping generalizations.
If WCPA is not associated with WAVE, I would strongly suggest such as statement be released to that effect, because most of the gun community believes it to be so. WAVE is about nothing but hate towards inanimate objects, So by association, I believe that is the WCPA's stance also.
I wish all police chiefs were as supportive as you make the WCPA to be. We have Milwaukee's chief, Ed Flynn, who told his officers to "prone them" when it came to open carriers, regardless of what they, the open carriers, were doing. Madison's chief Noble Wray has stated in so many words that open carriers need to be stopped and checked out every time there is a citizen complaint, even if the open carrier has done nothing wrong.
Seeing as how it is already illegal for felons and mentally incompetent to own firearms, much less carry them concealed, but they already do so without regard to the law, and these bills do nothing to change that. Those thousands of street gang members you mention, can, and do carry, without worrying about whether the law says you can already. My level of concern will not increase when this law passes, but I will at least have increased confidence that I will not be their victim if they decide I'm a target. These thugs will not seek out formal training, if any. On that same note, driving a car is a privilege, not a right, and yet cars kill and injure about 5 times as many people as guns. In fact, hospitals and Doctors, who are licensed and permitted, are one of the leading causes of death in this country, way ahead of firearms.
As you know, law abiding citizens in the state of Wisconsin can already open carry, with restrictions. I have done so many times. I have had no formal training classes. I practice often. Gun safety has been taught to me via friends and family, which is as traditional as the annual deer hunt. What is the difference if I cover the gun with a piece of fabric? Unfortunately, I can't carry in most of downtown Stoughton because of the feel-good gun free school zone laws.
I do know that police officers are trained to approach every situation as if all parties were armed. The current bills would not change this, so why is this constantly brought up?
As the Supreme Court of the United States have ruled, police have no legal obligation to protect anyone. I know the average police officer feels the obligation to do so, but they cannot, so we must protect ourselves or our loved ones by any means available. .
I have indeed read the bills. I don't see mandated training as necessary. One doesn't need training to practice their first amendment rights, although it would seem that some so called journalists do need it. I feel that any law abiding citizen who feels the need to carry a firearm but has no experience in handling one will voluntarily seek it out.
I have looked at many, many statistics, read many research articles and books on gun laws, pro and con, from all sides of the spectrum. I recommend a couple of items. One would be John Lotts "More Guns Less Crime", and gunfacts.info.
