Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Ohio school question...need real law readers' advice

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    77

    Ohio school question...need real law readers' advice

    There is a thread in the Ohio forum about out of state permit holders being on school property.

    NavyLT is saying that the FED School Zone 1000' mark applies since you're from a different state. Then he goes on to posting a cite about the Ohio firearm law that in my eyes claims reciprocity

    (3) This section does not apply to a person who conveys or attempts to convey a handgun into, or possesses a handgun in, a school safety zone if, at the time of that conveyance, attempted conveyance, or possession of the handgun, all of the following apply:
    (a) The person does not enter into a school building or onto school premises and is not at a school activity.
    (b) The person is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code.
    (c) The person is in the school safety zone in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B).
    (d) The person is not knowingly in a place described in division (B)(1) or (B)(3) to (10) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.


    I frequent Ohio multiple times a week and I was under the impression that I could drive down the street with the weapon in my car and not be doing anything illegal.

    What are your thoughts on this?

  2. #2
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Allegan co Michigan, USA
    Posts
    345
    nevermind
    Last edited by quarter horseman; 05-18-2011 at 01:34 PM.

  3. #3
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by mudvr1212 View Post
    There is a thread in the Ohio forum about out of state permit holders being on school property.

    NavyLT is saying that the FED School Zone 1000' mark applies since you're from a different state. Then he goes on to posting a cite about the Ohio firearm law that in my eyes claims reciprocity

    (3) This section does not apply to a person who conveys or attempts to convey a handgun into, or possesses a handgun in, a school safety zone if, at the time of that conveyance, attempted conveyance, or possession of the handgun, all of the following apply:
    (a) The person does not enter into a school building or onto school premises and is not at a school activity.
    (b) The person is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code.
    (c) The person is in the school safety zone in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B).
    (d) The person is not knowingly in a place described in division (B)(1) or (B)(3) to (10) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.


    I frequent Ohio multiple times a week and I was under the impression that I could drive down the street with the weapon in my car and not be doing anything illegal.

    What are your thoughts on this?
    Is the above a State law about a school zone?
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    77

    ...

    2923.122 Illegal conveyance or possession of deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance or of object indistinguishable from firearm in school safety zone.

    (A) No person shall knowingly convey, or attempt to convey, a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance into a school safety zone.
    (B) No person shall knowingly possess a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone.
    (C) No person shall knowingly possess an object in a school safety zone if both of the following apply:
    (1) The object is indistinguishable from a firearm, whether or not the object is capable of being fired.
    (2) The person indicates that the person possesses the object and that it is a firearm, or the person knowingly displays or brandishes the object and indicates that it is a firearm.
    (D)(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    (a) An officer, agent, or employee of this or any other state or the United States, or a law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry deadly weapons or dangerous ordnance and is acting within the scope of the officer’s, agent’s, or employee’s duties, a security officer employed by a board of education or governing body of a school during the time that the security officer is on duty pursuant to that contract of employment, or any other person who has written authorization from the board of education or governing body of a school to convey deadly weapons or dangerous ordnance into a school safety zone or to possess a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone and who conveys or possesses the deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in accordance with that authorization;
    (b) Any person who is employed in this state, who is authorized to carry deadly weapons or dangerous ordnance, and who is subject to and in compliance with the requirements of section 109.801 of the Revised Code, unless the appointing authority of the person has expressly specified that the exemption provided in division (D)(1)(b) of this section does not apply to the person.
    (2) Division (C) of this section does not apply to premises upon which home schooling is conducted. Division (C) of this section also does not apply to a school administrator, teacher, or employee who possesses an object that is indistinguishable from a firearm for legitimate school purposes during the course of employment, a student who uses an object that is indistinguishable from a firearm under the direction of a school administrator, teacher, or employee, or any other person who with the express prior approval of a school administrator possesses an object that is indistinguishable from a firearm for a legitimate purpose, including the use of the object in a ceremonial activity, a play, reenactment, or other dramatic presentation, or a ROTC activity or another similar use of the object.
    (3) This section does not apply to a person who conveys or attempts to convey a handgun into, or possesses a handgun in, a school safety zone if, at the time of that conveyance, attempted conveyance, or possession of the handgun, all of the following apply:
    (a) The person does not enter into a school building or onto school premises and is not at a school activity.
    (b) The person is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code.
    (c) The person is in the school safety zone in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B).
    (d) The person is not knowingly in a place described in division (B)(1) or (B)(3) to (10) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.
    (4) This section does not apply to a person who conveys or attempts to convey a handgun into, or possesses a handgun in, a school safety zone if at the time of that conveyance, attempted conveyance, or possession of the handgun all of the following apply:
    (a) The person is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code.
    (b) The person is the driver or passenger in a motor vehicle and is in the school safety zone while immediately in the process of picking up or dropping off a child.
    (c) The person is not in violation of section 2923.16 of the Revised Code.
    (E)(1) Whoever violates division (A) or (B) of this section is guilty of illegal conveyance or possession of a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone. Except as otherwise provided in this division, illegal conveyance or possession of a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone is a felony of the fifth degree. If the offender previously has been convicted of a violation of this section, illegal conveyance or possession of a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone is a felony of the fourth degree.
    (2) Whoever violates division (C) of this section is guilty of illegal possession of an object indistinguishable from a firearm in a school safety zone. Except as otherwise provided in this division, illegal possession of an object indistinguishable from a firearm in a school safety zone is a misdemeanor of the first degree. If the offender previously has been convicted of a violation of this section, illegal possession of an object indistinguishable from a firearm in a school safety zone is a felony of the fifth degree.
    (F)(1) In addition to any other penalty imposed upon a person who is convicted of or pleads guilty to a violation of this section and subject to division (F)(2) of this section, if the offender has not attained nineteen years of age, regardless of whether the offender is attending or is enrolled in a school operated by a board of education or for which the state board of education prescribes minimum standards under section 3301.07 of the Revised Code, the court shall impose upon the offender a class four suspension of the offender’s probationary driver’s license, restricted license, driver’s license, commercial driver’s license, temporary instruction permit, or probationary commercial driver’s license that then is in effect from the range specified in division (A)(4) of section 4510.02 of the Revised Code and shall deny the offender the issuance of any permit or license of that type during the period of the suspension.
    If the offender is not a resident of this state, the court shall impose a class four suspension of the nonresident operating privilege of the offender from the range specified in division (A)(4) of section 4510.02 of the Revised Code.
    (2) If the offender shows good cause why the court should not suspend one of the types of licenses, permits, or privileges specified in division (F)(1) of this section or deny the issuance of one of the temporary instruction permits specified in that division, the court in its discretion may choose not to impose the suspension, revocation, or denial required in that division.
    (G) As used in this section, “object that is indistinguishable from a firearm” means an object made, constructed, or altered so that, to a reasonable person without specialized training in firearms, the object appears to be a firearm.
    Effective Date: 04-08-2004; 03-14-2007; 2008 SB184 09-09-2008

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    77

    ...

    I won't be picking up children or anything, but I will be driving by schools. Now reading this cite, it seems to me that an out of state permit holder can drive past a school and not be in violation. Correct?

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by mudvr1212 View Post
    I won't be picking up children or anything, but I will be driving by schools. Now reading this cite, it seems to me that an out of state permit holder can drive past a school and not be in violation. Correct?
    Under state law yes, under Federal law probably not.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157
    I haven't read through all of what you've posted but isn't the issue Fed. law, not OH law?

    TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 922 > PARAGRAPH q(2):

    (A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;

    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

    So according to the Feds you need to be licensed by the same State where the school zone is located AND that State needs to be the one that does the background check on you.

    And yes, a "school zone" is anywhere withing 1000' of the school's property line.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...1----000-.html

    (25) The term “school zone” means—

    (A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or

    (B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
    Bronson
    Last edited by Bronson; 05-18-2011 at 03:10 PM.
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    77

    ...

    So while in Ohio, no one out of state, even with a permit, can drive past a school!

    We are all screwed!

  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by mudvr1212 View Post
    So while in Ohio, no one out of state, even with a permit, can drive past a school!

    We are all screwed!
    Well generally the feds would have to prosecute and since the law is unconstitutional I don't think they are Gung Ho on pursuing it. Under state law you are good to go and they are the one's you are most likely to come in contact with.

    You also HAVE TO know you were in a school zone to be guilty.
    Last edited by Venator; 05-18-2011 at 06:56 PM.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Monroe, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    77
    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    We generally the feds would have to prosecute and since the law is unconstitutional I don't think they are Gung Ho on pursuing it. Under state law you are good to go and they are the one's you are most likely to come in contact with.

    You also HAVE TO know you were in a school zone to be guilty.

    That is exactly what I was thinking when I read the whole thing. I just wanted to get a quick run down on what a few of you thought about it. I always appreciate the opinions of you and Bronson.

    Thank you fellas!

  11. #11
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
    Posts
    3,337
    See the following link, it explains it pretty well:

    http://handgunlaw.us/documents/batf_school_zone.pdf
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •