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Thread: What's more important: Your rights or?

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    What's more important: Your rights or?

    http://mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=482658


    "Police officers may now knock, listen, then break the door down, never mind that they had ample time to obtain a warrant," says Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said. (AP Photo/Joseph Oliver)
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    The U.S. Supreme Court makes it easier to break down your door and arrest you without a warrant. We get analysis from Dahlia Lithwick, who covers the courts for Slate Magazine. She says Ruth Bader Ginsburg's lone dissenting opinion was scathing.


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    Last edited by Stat; 05-18-2011 at 07:24 PM.

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    Regular Member Aryk45XD's Avatar
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    Wtf!?

    Can you please edit your post to include the link to the news story?
    This is outragious!

  3. #3
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    It's interesting that this was an 8-1 Decision. All of the Conservatives sided with this and Ginsburg was against it?

    Isn't it supposed to be the Liberals that are trying to waste everyone's Rights under the BoR's?
    Last edited by amlevin; 05-18-2011 at 08:05 PM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    It's interesting that this was an 8-1 Decision. All of the Conservatives sided with this and Ginsburg was against it?

    Isn't it supposed to be the Liberals that are trying to waste everyone's Rights under the BoR's?
    What have I been saying all along? "Conservatives" are not for our rights when it conflicts with their agenda. The wrong thinking of "law and order" ( a very anti liberty way of thinking) has taken over.

    The police state is here, the checks and balances are done, I have no faith in the legal system that colludes with law enforcement and government to protect their interests.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
    Regular Member Bucks Gun Shop's Avatar
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    Saw this last night on the news... Simply Un-Be-Leiv-Able!!!! While I am absolutely against drugs, our Constitution is very clear that knocking, smelling, and crashing down the door is illegal search and seizure... It seems to me that I also hear on the news last night that if the police accidently storm into your house, you cannot resisit arrest... How the hell do I tell the difference between the police and someone dressed up as the police????
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    The Constitution of the United States does not grant rights to citizens; it limits the powers of government to infringe on the rights which have already endowed upon us by our Creator. One of those is the right to keep and bear arms, to defend our persons and property in any manner we see fit.

  6. #6
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucks Gun Shop View Post
    Saw this last night on the news... Simply Un-Be-Leiv-Able!!!! While I am absolutely against drugs, our Constitution is very clear that knocking, smelling, and crashing down the door is illegal search and seizure... It seems to me that I also hear on the news last night that if the police accidently storm into your house, you cannot resisit arrest... How the hell do I tell the difference between the police and someone dressed up as the police????
    I am against drugs too, I am also more against the unconstitutional, drug laws. I am even more against those who insist upon enforcing malum prohibitum laws.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 05-18-2011 at 09:07 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    The "War on Drugs" and "War on Terror" are simply disguises for the "War on Americans' Constitutional Rights".
    Agreed and we can throw in the war on poverty too.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  8. #8
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Is it even an American Judge?

    So if someone in the nieghborhood is burning leaves and a cop wants to invade your home, they can say they smelled mary jane and hopefully your not in the shower when they invade and do a take down, or hopefully a skunk hasnt sprayed in your area. 1 by 1 they are taking our rights away. Unfortunatly I dont think enough people are on board to turn things around, or even realize or care this is happening. I look around and see less and less True Americans. I see alot of American kids who would rather be gangsters, and are only worried about how loud they can get their speakers to bump, how low they can sag, or how they can get mom and dad to pay for their next tattoo, or piercing. I just hope when SHTF that there are enough of us to make a difference cause I also see alot of different cultures who figure even with stricter laws this is still better than where they came from, and most probably even think that this wont effect them. Seems to me we're on our way to a socialist society. Hell even my daughter see's it. She comes home crying almost everyday because she gets picked on by the hispanic children in her school, There are 3 caucasion kids including her and 1 African American girl and they all get picked on by the mexicans. They are very racial and hatefull. She got hit and by a hispanic boy, and got her glasses broken, she hit him back to make him stop. The principal said he can not do anything to the boy because my daughter retaliated. I told the principal she defended herself. Maybe I should go punch him in the nose and see if he retaliates. They are teaching our kids just to sit down, shut up, and accept what ever they are told. Just the way our govenment wants us to behave.

    OK, I done venting for the moment. This kind of news just really P!$$e$ me off.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Agreed and we can throw in the war on poverty too.
    Thanks. I had fogotten all about that. There goes another night's sleep.

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    Yup our rights are being taken 1 by 1 and the courts do this because those who decide right from wrong do not live by the same laws we have to.

    No 4th or not anyone comes into my house unannouced and its gunna be a really bad day for them... i dont care who u are or what clothing your wearing...

    Mark my words folks our gun rights are next!!!!!!!

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackmarine View Post
    COMMENT REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: Hate is not welcome here!
    Excuse me! I don't believe that crap belongs here.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead1055 View Post
    Yup our rights are being taken 1 by 1 and the courts do this because those who decide right from wrong do not live by the same laws we have to.

    No 4th or not anyone comes into my house unannouced and its gunna be a really bad day for them... i dont care who u are or what clothing your wearing...

    Mark my words folks our gun rights are next!!!!!!!
    Marc I know in my heart of hearts you are a 3% er. And I would stand behind your right to take out as many as you can. The SCOTUS ruled several times before you have that right, I doubt they'd rule that way anymore.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I just hope when SHTF
    when? the sh!t IS hitting the fan. it's just happening so slowly no one sees it for what it is.


    Yeah, it's only gonna be about a second, boy
    'Til they take away all'a this country
    And they'll tell you not to listen to this here song
    And that far-off sound of freedom's
    Gonna be an echo from the past
    And the final tune is gonna be sad and long

    C.W. McCall
    US Constitution - void where prohibited by law.

  14. #14
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Excuse me! I don't believe that crap belongs here.
    +1
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Excuse me! I don't believe that crap belongs here.
    Somewhat ironic coming from a guy who calls himself "blackmarine." Can't believe I just polluted my cache with that.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    As terrible as this decision is, we would do well to remember we here in Washington State have Article 1 Section 7 of our state constitution. Next month's CJTC LED will talk about this and I surmise that include in rather large letters that the decision does not apply in WA state.

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    Not trying to rock the boat here but if the same officers heard someone screaming inside you guys are saying they should get a search warrant? Regardless of what you think about the drug laws as they stand arent they obligated to sieze evidence before it gets disposed of or "used". I will temper my statement by saying that I don't nessasarily agree with this just throwing something out there..

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    If today the Constitution means “just what the interpreter chooses it to mean”, then the Court and Congress have set themselves above the Constitution and it no longer serves as America’s anchor of freedom, justice and law but has degenerated into that “living, breathing document” whose meaning can change routinely, blown along by prevailing political winds.

    This was NOT the original intent, not if we truly believe the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and that no man is above the law and this includes all branches of government including the courts.

    As a favorite judge of mine put it, “Interpreting the Constitution as a "living, breathing document" subject to reinvention according to the political whims of the moment is not just bad policy. It is a suicide pact.”

    The Constitution was never meant to be 'interpreted'. Interpretation gives wide latitude to the interpreter while a strict objective reading based on the vocabulary used leaves only one interpretation. No one will argue that contracts can be interpreted differently by different people based on their own definition of words. Contracts must have strict singular meanings or they are useless. Most contracts allow for modification in the form of amendments. The Constitution is no different. You cannot change, modify or add to the meaning of the Constitution by interpretation... but you can do all those things via the amendment process. What the SCOTUS has done, and what all courts have been doing for quite some time now is substituting opinion for objective definitions.

    The solution is quite simple. We must demand the most narrow, strict and objective interpretation of the Constitution based on the vocabulary of the day. We must reject any and all "reasonable" interpretations as the subjective opinions they are. We either restore the Republic fully, or this decade will be the last we will have as a nation of individual liberty. We are on the precipice and if we do not pull back now, the dominoes will take us all down.
    Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. ~ George Washington

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    Regular Member Bucks Gun Shop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    but if the same officers heard someone screaming inside you guys are saying they should get a search warrant?
    Lovenox - I cannot speak for the others, and I certainly don't know the law as well as 0.001% of the forum users here, but I believe that the police have for quite sometime had the right to enter in circumstances where they have "reason" to believe that life is in jepoardy - and I will accept that infringement on my rights to protect the life of a human being. However, I will not accept them infringing upon my rights when the life of a human being is not in jepoardy...
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    The Constitution of the United States does not grant rights to citizens; it limits the powers of government to infringe on the rights which have already endowed upon us by our Creator. One of those is the right to keep and bear arms, to defend our persons and property in any manner we see fit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucks Gun Shop View Post
    Lovenox - I cannot speak for the others, and I certainly don't know the law as well as 0.001% of the forum users here, but I believe that the police have for quite sometime had the right to enter in circumstances where they have "reason" to believe that life is in jepoardy - and I will accept that infringement on my rights to protect the life of a human being. However, I will not accept them infringing upon my rights when the life of a human being is not in jepoardy...
    Sure, and I can buy that. However, with the police if you are breaking the law you are breaking the law. I believe there are overzealous in this application of enforcement of
    the law.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Washintonian_For_Liberty View Post
    If today the Constitution means “just what the interpreter chooses it to mean”, then the Court and Congress have set themselves above the Constitution and it no longer serves as America’s anchor of freedom, justice and law but has degenerated into that “living, breathing document” whose meaning can change routinely, blown along by prevailing political winds.

    This was NOT the original intent, not if we truly believe the Constitution is the supreme law of the land and that no man is above the law and this includes all branches of government including the courts.

    As a favorite judge of mine put it, “Interpreting the Constitution as a "living, breathing document" subject to reinvention according to the political whims of the moment is not just bad policy. It is a suicide pact.”

    The Constitution was never meant to be 'interpreted'. Interpretation gives wide latitude to the interpreter while a strict objective reading based on the vocabulary used leaves only one interpretation. No one will argue that contracts can be interpreted differently by different people based on their own definition of words. Contracts must have strict singular meanings or they are useless. Most contracts allow for modification in the form of amendments. The Constitution is no different. You cannot change, modify or add to the meaning of the Constitution by interpretation... but you can do all those things via the amendment process. What the SCOTUS has done, and what all courts have been doing for quite some time now is substituting opinion for objective definitions.

    The solution is quite simple. We must demand the most narrow, strict and objective interpretation of the Constitution based on the vocabulary of the day. We must reject any and all "reasonable" interpretations as the subjective opinions they are. We either restore the Republic fully, or this decade will be the last we will have as a nation of individual liberty. We are on the precipice and if we do not pull back now, the dominoes will take us all down.

    I subscribe to most of your posting. But dont you agree that there has to be limitations teathered to the laws and freedoms? Yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater always comes to mind, felons not owning weapons is another, et al...

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    I subscribe to most of your posting. But dont you agree that there has to be limitations teathered to the laws and freedoms? Yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater always comes to mind, felons not owning weapons is another, et al...
    Let's use a bit more of the quote from Oliver Wendall Holmes....

    “the most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man in falsely shouting fire in a theatre and causing a panic”

    He was not and never insinuated that free speech was limited, if there was a fire and someone didn't shout this, I would think of them as blood guilty for the deaths of those who perished.

    The most "stringent protection" means free speech to the max without any restrictions at all would not protect you from being held liable if you had caused the deaths of some because you created a panic.

    Felons with guns...if they did their time, their inalienable rights should be restored.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Peterson View Post
    As terrible as this decision is, we would do well to remember we here in Washington State have Article 1 Section 7 of our state constitution. Next month's CJTC LED will talk about this and I surmise that include in rather large letters that the decision does not apply in WA state.
    I was thinking about that Gray, but because of the steady erosion of state power and authority how would that protect you if it was a Federal agency? Just a random thought.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
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    you have rights
    Rights can be an after action
    Rights might be an aftion action
    Rights are now an after action
    and so on.......
    Last edited by Stat; 05-19-2011 at 08:34 PM.

  25. #25
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HK_dave View Post
    when? the sh!t IS hitting the fan. it's just happening so slowly no one sees it for what it is.


    Yeah, it's only gonna be about a second, boy
    'Til they take away all'a this country
    And they'll tell you not to listen to this here song
    And that far-off sound of freedom's
    Gonna be an echo from the past
    And the final tune is gonna be sad and long

    C.W. McCall
    Oh well, we wont have to worry when about any of this when the world ends Sat at 6 pm. I will be spending some of my last moments have apocalyptic sex. If the world doesnt end then my wife and I will have some celebration sex Sunday morning. YAY...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    Sure, and I can buy that. However, with the police if you are breaking the law you are breaking the law. I believe there are overzealous in this application of enforcement of
    the law.
    I think they are just using what they can to control people and to be able to do what they want instead of fearing retaliation in court from the people. I think our judges need to be looked at really hard also.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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