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Thread: Former Marine killed in botched SWAT raid

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Former Marine killed in botched SWAT raid

    SWAT raid fatal drama is revealed in 911 call

    Fernanda Echavarri Arizona Daily Star Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Saturday, May 14, 2011 1:00 pm

    The wife of a Tucson man killed in a Pima County SWAT raid May 5 pleaded for five minutes with 911 dispatchers to send an ambulance for her mortally wounded husband, audio records show.

    Jose Guerena, 26, a former Marine, was sleeping after the graveyard shift at Asarco Mission mine about 9:30 a.m. when his wife woke him saying she heard noises outside and a man was at their window. Guerena told his wife to hide in a closet with their 4-year-old son, his wife has said. He grabbed an AR-15 rifle and moments later was slumped in the kitchen, mortally wounded from a hail of gunfire.

    http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...7da6e9e4b.html

    Former Marine killed by SWAT was acting in defense, family says


    Reporter: Joel Waldman
    Web Producer: Layla Tang

    TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - New details are emerging about Jose Guerena, the man killed last Thursday in a SWAT incident at his Tucson home. He was gunned down by SWAT members while his wife and young child hid in a closet.
    http://www.kgun9.com/story/14621212/...se-says-family
    Raw video: wife of suspect killed in SWAT raid speaks out


    Video by: Jim Shields, KGUN9 Photojournalist
    Notes by: Forrest Carr

    This week, KGUN9 News reporter Joel Waldman interviewed Vanessa Guerena about the shooting of her husband Jose, who died last week when a SWAT team tried to serve a search warrant at their Tucson home. She stated that neither she nor her husband knew that the people breaking into her home were deputies. She said that her husband, who pointed a rifle at deputies, was only trying to defend himself. Guerena never got off a shot. But SWAT team members fired a total of at least 71 rounds, leaving the home riddled with holes. Ms. Guerena was hiding in a closet at the time with one of the couple's children. Neither was hurt.
    http://www.kgun9.com/story/14644188/...at-can-be-drug

    SWAT team fired 71 shots in raid

    Fernanda Echavarri Arizona Daily Star Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 am

    The Pima County Regional SWAT team fired 71 shots in seven seconds at a Tucson man they say pointed a gun at officers serving a search warrant at his home.

    Jose Guerena, 26, a former Marine who served in Iraq twice, was holding an AR-15 rifle when he was killed, but he never fired a shot, the Sheriff's Department said Monday after initially saying he had fired on officers during last week's raid.
    http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...f206f8301.html
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    ::Shakes head::

    Research the reasons why having a Standing Army living among the People was rejected by the Framers and you will see why this man died.
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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Do you know why SWAT was there? Was it the correct address?

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    SWAT entry questioned in Marine's death
    Reporter: Joel Waldman
    Posted: May 13, 2011 7:34 PM
    Lt. Michael O'Connor says SWAT says it never wants to be mistaken for other people, "We had our large armored vehicle there with the markings on it. It also has lights and sirens. It was going. So we do everything we can to try to portray the image that we're law enforcement, we're not home invaders."

    [edit for length]

    But, Guerena's wife, Vanessa, who hid in the closet with her youngest son while 71 rounds were fired her husband's direction, said she heard nothing. At any point did you hear them yell, ‘police" or ‘SWAT'?" KGUN9 asked. "No, no!" answered Guerena.

    A neighbor who heard the shooting corroborates the wife's account, "The only sirens I heard out here were like maybe 20-30 minutes into the entire ordeal," said David Watson.

    Watson is very familiar with gunfire and stressful situations; he's a Vietnam combat veteran, "I want to make this as clear as possible: you only heard the announcements after you heard the gunfire?" asked KGUN9 reporter Joel Waldman. Watson quickly answered, "Yes!"
    http://www.kgun9.com/story/14644269/...marines-death#
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Suspect "crouched in a dark hallway", 71 rounds, bullets all over the side of his house, and bullets in neighboring houses!

    Question: how many rounds did the homeowner take?

    Question: assuming all the rounds from SWAT are pointing down at the homeowner, how many rounds ricocheted off the concrete slab?
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crim...7da6e9e4b.html

    He was shot 60 times, doctors told the family.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 05-19-2011 at 04:22 PM.
    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Saw the video from the officers lawyer, Michael Storie. He is saying they entered the house, shot the homeowner, then apparently retreated and needed to use robots to clear the house? This after the department made a statement saying they thought he was home alone and that they thought his wife and sons were off to school.

    Sounds like a lot of CYA to me. I hope they have actual evidence to cover their explanations, like video of the shootout from a helmet cam or something.

    Search results found "assault rifles, handguns and body armor." A: Big deal, not illegal! B: who doesn't have those items?
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    OK then, that seems to dovetail with the video that shows the back side of the house which had about dozen holes in the wall. Will need to re-watch that video and count the holes, but from memory seems to be about right.

    But damn, 71 shots and 60 hits...talk about excessive.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolusername2007
    71 shots and 60 hits...talk about excessive.
    The whole concept of a SWAT team seems excessive to me.
    I remember the saw about a little boy with a hammer...

    But on the "bright side", 60/71 is a heluva lot higher hit % than most cop-involved shootings.

    Wonder how (or if) they're going to try to get this to ride the coattails of the ILSC ruling on not being allowed to resist illegal entry?
    Good for the neighbor guy for speaking up about them not IDing themselves.
    As for their truck being out front, big deal. Nobody's required to look outside.
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    SWAT Team.
    Reminds me of a word called " Police State"!
    A whole lot of adjustments need to be made on this idea.

  11. #11
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I fear with recent court rulings we are going to see these incidents go on the rise, what little law kept the police at bay has been steadily eroded. So much for the law of the land suppose to protect the people of the land from the government.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member rscottie's Avatar
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    There are very very few instances when Law Enforcement is justified in bringing "troops" to serve a search warrant.

    If they are afraid the suspect may shoot at them, all the more reason to set a perimeter and then ask the person to come out with their hands up.

    The problem is that the attitude has shifted from "Innocent until Proven Guilty" to "Guilty simply because someone is charged or even just suspected".

    There are many that will trod out the line that they have to do no knock warrants because the suspect will destroy evidence. Hogwash, they need evidence to justify the warrant in the first place.

    We must demand that our 4th Amendment Rights are not trampled.

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    I hope every singe officer involved with the actual shooting get the damn needle.So after the police brutally gunned down a Marine, home-invasion style, and let him bleed in excruciating pain for 75 minutes while denying medical care until he eventually bleed to death, the cops were going to other houses to see if medical care was needed for them? While watching this guy bleed to death instead of getting him help? Yet the police have refused to say why they had a warrant to search the home to begin with. I hope she drains their PD for every bloody cent it has.

    Guerena: "I wasn't gonna go, but I did. ... I wasn't even closing the door, when I start listening to those, like, a lot of shots, a bunch of them. When that stops, I left my kid in there... I went out, and I saw lots of men at the window, a bunch of them. They were saying, 'We're the SWAT team."

    Guerena: "The last thing I thought I was gonna see was Jose on the floor with all this blood and stuff. And he was just saying, 'Uh, uh.' And I couldn't help him. So I called the 911 to have the ambulance. And they told me they were on their way."

    Waldman: "At any point, did you hear them yell 'police' or 'SWAT?'"

    Guerena: "No."

    Waldman: "At any point, did you hear sirens outside?"

    Guerena: "No."

    Guerena: "When I went out, five or ten minutes, I don't know how long, until my kid went outside. When he saw this, when he saw all this police outside, the only thing he asked me, was, 'Mom, my dad was a bad guy? They killed my dad?'"

    Guerena: "By that moment, I was like, they're gonna take care of him, they're gonna take him to the hospital. And I was like calm at that point. But after two or three hours they told me, 'I'm sorry, but your husband passed away."

    Waldman: "Were you able to talk to Jose at all? Was he responding in any way before you left?"

    Guerena: "He never talked to me. The last words that he told me were, 'Vanny, go into the closet. That's it. If I wouldn't listen to him, Oh, My God. I would have been killed too... They would have killed me too, and my kid."

    Waldman: "As far as you know, did Jose have anything to do with drugs?"

    Guerena: "Oh, no, you can check, they can check, everything... They didn't get anything at the house. They stole stuff, like my ring, his wallet, stuff like you can't even imagine, personal stuff."

    Waldman: "What do you want to know?"

    Guerena: "Why? Why? Why did they do this to him? Justice. I want justice. I was justice for my kid."
    Last edited by zack991; 05-19-2011 at 08:08 PM.
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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    I hope every singe officer involved with the actual shooting get the damn needle.So after the police brutally gunned down a Marine, home-invasion style, and let him bleed in excruciating pain for 75 minutes while denying medical care until he eventually bleed to death, the cops were going to other houses to see if medical care was needed for them? While watching this guy bleed to death instead of getting him help? Yet the police have refused to say why they had a warrant to search the home to begin with. I hope she drains their PD for every bloody cent it has.
    I find it hard to believe he lived for 75 minutes with 60 hits.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    SWAT negligent discharge led to SWAT panicked shooting

    .... the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home...

    ...A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.

    Link: http://reason.com/blog/2011/05/16/ma...two-tours-in-i

    This sort of thing really makes me sick. The obsfucation and lies have begun in earnest.
    Last edited by Thundar; 05-19-2011 at 08:30 PM. Reason: better post
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Sounds like the marine was murdered...

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    Sounds like the marine was murdered...

    I could see manslaughter for the neglegent discharge and shooting, but I agree, definately murder for purposely delaying medical attention to allow the marine combat hero bleed out.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Sigh.....

    Lot's of depressing news lately, on grossly out of place our government has become.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Activist Member DoubleAgentMan's Avatar
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    Damn, this is a really sad story. I hope there are more details that come out soon.

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    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
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    The war on drugs (now literally a war on Americans) killed this Marine.

    The militarization of local law enforcement killed this Marine.

    Dumb ass government employees who can't keep their finger off the trigger killed this Marine.

    America, its long past time we start rethinking all this s%!t.
    Last edited by coolusername2007; 05-20-2011 at 03:17 AM.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

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    Regular Member Washintonian_For_Liberty's Avatar
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    Unfortunately guys... its going to take a war... a bloody, violent war. The authoritarians will not give up their power... and every attempt we make at trying to dial back their despotic powers, they surge and grab even more. Did the DEA shrink after WACO? Nope! Did the FBI get smaller or change tactics after Ruby Ridge? Nope! They are even more militaristic and antagonistic towards innocent Americans than ever before and now... well now they have the courts telling them that even if they don't have a warrant... even if they only think they smell pot... the Constitution no longer applies... bust the door down... and kill whoever resists.

    Part of Patrick Henry's speech modified for today!

    They tell us, my fellow Americans, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a Federal Agent shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? My fellow Americans, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Arizona, Indiana, South Carolina and every other State in this grand Union! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

    It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the East will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

    Does it fit? I think so.
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  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    I've read through the thread, and it's tragic.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    I could see manslaughter for the neglegent discharge and shooting, but I agree, definately murder for purposely delaying medical attention to allow the marine combat hero bleed out.
    71 shots are not a negligent discharge, that is a firing squad.

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Washintonian_For_Liberty View Post
    Unfortunately guys... its going to take a war... a bloody, violent war. The authoritarians will not give up their power... and every attempt we make at trying to dial back their despotic powers, they surge and grab even more. Did the DEA shrink after WACO? Nope! Did the FBI get smaller or change tactics after Ruby Ridge? Nope! They are even more militaristic and antagonistic towards innocent Americans than ever before and now... well now they have the courts telling them that even if they don't have a warrant... even if they only think they smell pot... the Constitution no longer applies... bust the door down... and kill whoever resists.

    Part of Patrick Henry's speech modified for today!

    They tell us, my fellow Americans, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a Federal Agent shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance by lying supinely on our backs and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? My fellow Americans, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power. The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations, and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Arizona, Indiana, South Carolina and every other State in this grand Union! The war is inevitable--and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

    It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace-- but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the East will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

    Does it fit? I think so.
    Although I understand your frustration and am with you on the principles. I still feel there is hope without war. This does not mean there won't be violence perpetrated by the "authorities" I think the first step is simply resistance and education.

    Educate the people, that our liberty is more important than the life of those willing to take it. Maclean ( an LEO in Washington forum) has labled me a confrontational, and a ****** bag, and that I spout nonsense. He also claims to be well aware of my instances and said the way I handled things set civil rights back, and that I am a shining example of how a little knowledge is dangerous. Yet he doesn't explain how and I guess he wants people to remain ignorant. I will continue to insist that knowledge is power.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 05-20-2011 at 11:21 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    One question I do not see answered here...what was the warrent for that it required a stealth attack by a SWAT team?

    Anywone ever heard of "excessive use of force"?

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