Reverend BCal
Regular Member
Let's see how I can condense this without leaving anything out...
Yesterday my girlfriend and I were shopping at HyVee, minding our own business in the dairy aisle, when St. Joe PD Officer Friendlypants came up from behind and asked to see my ID. I politely asked him if I was doing anything illegal. He stated that I was not and that he was just investigating a MWAG call. He asked again for ID, I asked him why. He said it was to veify that I was at least 21 (He must have been misinformed on the specifics of federal law.) I informed him that I was legally able to carry a firearm and that he needed to tell me what grounds he had to ask for physical ID before I would show him anything. He kept calling me a smart @$$ and told me that I didn't need to be difficult. I asked him what law or statute gave him the power to request ID. He said that he had the right to ask for ID when investigating a call like this. I said that he could ask all he wants, but that nothing in the law compelled me to produce anything unless (per 84.710) he had RAS to believe I had committed, was committing or will commit a crime, and even then all I had to give was name, address, business abroad, etc. He told me that I was wrong and that I could either produce a physical ID or he would arrest me to obtain the info.
~~I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS NEXT MOVE WAS NOT NECESSARY!!~~
I told the officer that I would VOLUNTARILY give him my name and date of birth to satisfy his "need to know." This was to prevent further frustration. He told me that what I did was NOT voluntary and that I was required to give it to him. He then told me that he was going to run my ID and if he found out I lied to him about being 21 (again, what's with this 21 thing?! C'mon! Know the law, buddy!) he would arrest me. I asked my girlfriend to hand me a MissouriOpenCarry business card, which I then gave to him. I told him that there are a lot of educational resources available on the website for him to learn about. He tried to compare the situation to only 18-year-olds being able to ride mopeds, and that gave him the authority to stop and ask for ID. I tried to tell him that unlike driving a car or concealing a weapon, I did not need a permit, but he kept interrupting me. Finally, I asked if I was free to go. He said no. I asked if I was being detained. He said no. I asked again if I was free to go and he flung the card at me and mumbled, "Take your f**kin' card, f**k off" as he stormed away.
END VIDEO RECORDING #1!!!
We continued to walk through the store to finish up our meager shopping list and I happened to pass him by while he was telling the story to a bunch of cashiers. He looked at me with an overly-friendly sarcastic smile and said, "Hello, Bryce." I said something like "howdy" and kept walking. As we made our way in a circle back to the front of the store to check out, I turned to find three Buchanan County Sheriff's Deputies (all Drug Strike Force...hmmm) walking up behind me with Officer Friendlypants. I stopped to turn around as one deputy pulled me aside.
START VIDEO RECORDING #2!!!
While I spoke with the deputies (all of whom, by the way, were MUCH more professional than the city cop) my girlfriend had a little conversation with Officer Tunn again. I'm so proud of her for standing up to him! My conversation with the deputies went unrecorded, unfortunately, but it went something like this:
S.D: Why didn't you show your id to the officer?
Me: He didn't provide me with ample enough reason to.
S.D: Well, he said you came up to him with a "Go f&@% yourself attitude when he was trying to investigate.
Me: It was most definitely the other way around. I don't like being harassed.
S.D: What you are doing isn't illegal, we just want to make sure the scene is okay and that nothing is going on. So why don't you just show him your ID and be on the way?
Me: Because I'm not required by law to show him my ID unless you have RAS to believe a crime is committed. This isn't Arizona or Nazi Germany. I don't have to show you my "papers" just because you ask.
S.D: Umm, okay, we understand that. It would've saved you a bunch of time and frustration, wouldn't it have?
Me: Well, that's not how I do business, and I'm ashamed and embarassed that St. Joe PD would believe otherwise. I'm just going to check out and be on my way.
S.D: Nobody's asking you to leave, we just want you to know that this doesn't happen very much and we have the obligation to investigate. You can expect that again in the future, I'm sure.
Me: That's why I came prepared THIS time You all have a nice day.
I walked back, to Officer Friendlypants, shook his hand, apologized for any frustration I may have caused him, told him I don't like being harassed. He said he wasn't harassing me, and I just walked away.
END VIDEO #2!!!
I filed a verbal complaint with the officer's supervising captain this afternoon and will be sending her the videos and a detailed report this evening when I can access my email.
VIDEO AS PROMISED!
Initial stop by Officer Tunn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMhOmsBR1tc
Secondary with Sheriff's Deputies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63u8wAGbujg
Yesterday my girlfriend and I were shopping at HyVee, minding our own business in the dairy aisle, when St. Joe PD Officer Friendlypants came up from behind and asked to see my ID. I politely asked him if I was doing anything illegal. He stated that I was not and that he was just investigating a MWAG call. He asked again for ID, I asked him why. He said it was to veify that I was at least 21 (He must have been misinformed on the specifics of federal law.) I informed him that I was legally able to carry a firearm and that he needed to tell me what grounds he had to ask for physical ID before I would show him anything. He kept calling me a smart @$$ and told me that I didn't need to be difficult. I asked him what law or statute gave him the power to request ID. He said that he had the right to ask for ID when investigating a call like this. I said that he could ask all he wants, but that nothing in the law compelled me to produce anything unless (per 84.710) he had RAS to believe I had committed, was committing or will commit a crime, and even then all I had to give was name, address, business abroad, etc. He told me that I was wrong and that I could either produce a physical ID or he would arrest me to obtain the info.
~~I UNDERSTAND THAT THIS NEXT MOVE WAS NOT NECESSARY!!~~
I told the officer that I would VOLUNTARILY give him my name and date of birth to satisfy his "need to know." This was to prevent further frustration. He told me that what I did was NOT voluntary and that I was required to give it to him. He then told me that he was going to run my ID and if he found out I lied to him about being 21 (again, what's with this 21 thing?! C'mon! Know the law, buddy!) he would arrest me. I asked my girlfriend to hand me a MissouriOpenCarry business card, which I then gave to him. I told him that there are a lot of educational resources available on the website for him to learn about. He tried to compare the situation to only 18-year-olds being able to ride mopeds, and that gave him the authority to stop and ask for ID. I tried to tell him that unlike driving a car or concealing a weapon, I did not need a permit, but he kept interrupting me. Finally, I asked if I was free to go. He said no. I asked if I was being detained. He said no. I asked again if I was free to go and he flung the card at me and mumbled, "Take your f**kin' card, f**k off" as he stormed away.
END VIDEO RECORDING #1!!!
We continued to walk through the store to finish up our meager shopping list and I happened to pass him by while he was telling the story to a bunch of cashiers. He looked at me with an overly-friendly sarcastic smile and said, "Hello, Bryce." I said something like "howdy" and kept walking. As we made our way in a circle back to the front of the store to check out, I turned to find three Buchanan County Sheriff's Deputies (all Drug Strike Force...hmmm) walking up behind me with Officer Friendlypants. I stopped to turn around as one deputy pulled me aside.
START VIDEO RECORDING #2!!!
While I spoke with the deputies (all of whom, by the way, were MUCH more professional than the city cop) my girlfriend had a little conversation with Officer Tunn again. I'm so proud of her for standing up to him! My conversation with the deputies went unrecorded, unfortunately, but it went something like this:
S.D: Why didn't you show your id to the officer?
Me: He didn't provide me with ample enough reason to.
S.D: Well, he said you came up to him with a "Go f&@% yourself attitude when he was trying to investigate.
Me: It was most definitely the other way around. I don't like being harassed.
S.D: What you are doing isn't illegal, we just want to make sure the scene is okay and that nothing is going on. So why don't you just show him your ID and be on the way?
Me: Because I'm not required by law to show him my ID unless you have RAS to believe a crime is committed. This isn't Arizona or Nazi Germany. I don't have to show you my "papers" just because you ask.
S.D: Umm, okay, we understand that. It would've saved you a bunch of time and frustration, wouldn't it have?
Me: Well, that's not how I do business, and I'm ashamed and embarassed that St. Joe PD would believe otherwise. I'm just going to check out and be on my way.
S.D: Nobody's asking you to leave, we just want you to know that this doesn't happen very much and we have the obligation to investigate. You can expect that again in the future, I'm sure.
Me: That's why I came prepared THIS time You all have a nice day.
I walked back, to Officer Friendlypants, shook his hand, apologized for any frustration I may have caused him, told him I don't like being harassed. He said he wasn't harassing me, and I just walked away.
END VIDEO #2!!!
I filed a verbal complaint with the officer's supervising captain this afternoon and will be sending her the videos and a detailed report this evening when I can access my email.
VIDEO AS PROMISED!
Initial stop by Officer Tunn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMhOmsBR1tc
Secondary with Sheriff's Deputies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63u8wAGbujg
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