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Thread: Speeding motor cyclist killed by not-speeding cruiser

  1. #1
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Speeding motor cyclist killed by not-speeding cruiser

    What do you guys make of this?


    http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/a...text|FRONTPAGE


    I hear a lot of "got what he deserved" and "one less idiot on the road" etc.... I am really surprised by the amount of cynical, calloused a$$holes out there who think it's great that this kid was killed over a speeding ticket because he went 104 mph at 4am...

    I mean, yeah the kid was in teh wrong, but the cop was RIGHT BEHIND him and clearly was close enough to get his plate... why continue the chase?

    I guess I just feel unless they're chasing a violent felon, they shouldn't be chasing. Too risky for everyone.

    Additionally, i'm pretty sure the cruiser was probably veered or swerved into the motorcycle's path ON PURPOSE... essentially murdering him because he was running from the cops... which obviously is an extremely stupid thing to do... but I didn't realize that made it so the cops could be judge, jury, and executioner... especially over a SPEEDING TICKET. I guess I"m just weird like that.


    Discuss.



    Oh yeah, also, MODS, if you feel this is too far off topic, feel free to nuke or move. THANKS!
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 05-20-2011 at 12:47 AM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member quarter horseman's Avatar
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    Agreed one less idiot, and now more money out of our pocket to fix the car thanks idiot.

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    You may think different if after they "called off the chase" he plowed into a wife coming home from a late shift at work killing her. One less idiot indeed.

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    Yep. One less idiot.

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Having been a motorcycle rider for a number of years this is my view:

    1. Yeah, the kid was wrong and stupid. My Dad told me many, many years ago, "Do not run from the police. You will be in far worse trouble."
    2. If the police had broke off the pursuit, since they had his tag number, the kid would most probably still be alive and they could have arrested him at their convenience.
    3. If, in fact, he had run into a car, the odds are, with the cars nowadays, that the most severe injury would have been to the motorcycle rider. Only if he plowed directly into the driver's or passenger's door or went through the windshield would there have been that much of a chance of injury or fatality to the car's occupants.
    4. I am very disappointed in those of you who have said, "One less idiot." Would you say that had it been your son? I doubt it very seriously. Besides, idiot or not, he was a human being. Remember John Donne's quote? Look it up.

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    It wouldn't have been my son. He is no idiot and would not have done what the one-less-idiot did.

    Having the tag number is not sufficient. At best, they can later go talk to the guy--until he walks away or tells them to get off his property.

    No matter who it disappoints, I will say it again: One less idiot. Give him the Darwin Award!

  7. #7
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    For all the police abuses that people bitch about on here, I am pretty surprised to see the "one less idiot" crowd....


    And people who say "my kid woudln't do that" you can't know that... it was a bad decision, no doubt.... Your kid wouldn't bump his motorcycle up to 100 "just to see what it was like for a min"? Say he did that, since it was 4am and on a deserted highway... then saw the cop lights and freaked out and said "oh F, dad is going to be PISSED.... well there's no way this cop can catch me... there's no one around... *activate warp speed*...


    To be honest, I don't have as much of a problem with the kid crashing and getting killed as I do that I think they DID IT ON PURPOSE. I think they crashed him on purpose.

    THAT is what I have the big problem with. I"ve seen cops on "cop chase" shows trying to run into a kid on a 125 dirt bike who was running away from them. Trying to kill a 14 year old kid because HOW DARE he ride his dirt bike on the road, then make a stupid decision to try to run.

    Just another example that the cops out OUT OF CONTROL and will do whatever they want, whenever they want... and people will just say "idiot deserved it".

    Nice.
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 05-20-2011 at 10:32 AM.

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    No, I can safely say that my son would not do that. We are all capable of doing something stupid. Doing something that incredibly stupid requires a special kind of mentality.

    One less monumental idiot.

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HKcarrier View Post
    For all the police abuses that people bitch about on here, I am pretty surprised to see the "one less idiot" crowd....


    And people who say "my kid woudln't do that" you can't know that... it was a bad decision, no doubt.... Your kid wouldn't bump his motorcycle up to 100 "just to see what it was like for a min"? Say he did that, since it was 4am and on a deserted highway... then saw the cop lights and freaked out and said "oh F, dad is going to be PISSED.... well there's no way this cop can catch me... there's no one around... *activate warp speed*...


    To be honest, I don't have as much of a problem with the kid crashing and getting killed as I do that I think they DID IT ON PURPOSE. I think they crashed him on purpose.

    THAT is what I have the big problem with. I"ve seen cops on "cop chase" shows trying to run into a kid on a 125 dirt bike who was running away from them. Trying to kill a 14 year old kid because HOW DARE he ride his dirt bike on the road, then make a stupid decision to try to run.

    Just another example that the cops out OUT OF CONTROL and will do whatever they want, whenever they want... and people will just say "idiot deserved it".

    Nice.
    +1

    And I learned very early in my children's lives not say "my kid would never do that".

    And as a kid I did many things that being older I wouldn't have done now.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    +1

    And I learned very early in my children's lives not say "my kid would never do that".

    And as a kid I did many things that being older I wouldn't have done now.


    Never underestimate the power of human denial... especially in parents RE: little Johnny.

    You're delusional if you think your kid could never make a bad decision. Everyone thinks their precious snowflake is the world's greatest kid.

    I bet this kid's parents would have said the same line, among others... "he was such a nice boy" "he had a sparkling record" "he was a shining example of a youngman" "He's never behaved like this before" "we don't understand, this isn't like him"

    Never say never.


    And again, I can't believe that people think it's ok that the cops very likely crashed into this guy on purpose knowing full well what the ramifications would be.

    "what if they let him go and he crashed into a night-shifter" ... or, what if they let him go and NOTHING happened?!?! OMG!!!

    No, that would bruise their egos too much. That would make all the sheeple all run from the cops. That would let the sheeple out of our stranglehold of authority.


    Again, kid IS an idiot. But he didn't deserve to be killed on purpose for it.

    I don't care if I"m going 150mph... as I see the crusier coming down the entrance ramp, I'm going to move to the left lane.... doesn't matter if I"m going 200. The only way you wouldn't beable to react is if the guy cut you off. IE: He did it on purpose. His only reason for even entering the expressway AHEAD of the chase was TO BLOCK.
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 05-20-2011 at 12:13 PM.

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    As a teacher, I always mentally (not physically) shook my head when a parent said that their child would never lie (for example). They all lie. We all do stupid things.

    Big difference here, though.

    We don't all do incredibly stupid things. We all know people well who just don't do incredibly stupid things. Yeah, my son will speed in his car. He has. He won't be incredibly stupid and try to outrun the police who try to stop him. He's got a pretty high IQ and is a wireless and electrical engineer. He is in his early thirties and quite mature.

    So, no, he wouldn't try to elude the police at high speeds. He is just too smart for that.

    So, as much as some here seem to hate reading this, I'll write it again: There is one less monumental idiot in the world.

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Ahhh but the qualifier "incredibly" stupid, is a matter of opinion.

    Speeding in the middle of the night with noone around, is something that would more than likely only hurt himself. And proof to me that most "laws" we have are fairly ridiculous in nature because statist and authorities take a "no excuse" viewpoint on them which is anti-freedom liberty in my viewpoint.

    I personally think smoking tobacco is incredibly stupid and causes almost 1/2 a million deaths a year (and may do incredible damage by second hand smoke). I am not going to ram my car into someone smoking on the sidewalk with in 25 feet of a door ( a crime in my state).
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 05-20-2011 at 01:04 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  13. #13
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    video i watched,i didnt see the cop swerve,just throwin that out there,i just think the biker wasnt paying attention

    and i heard he got up to 140 mph.

    cops should have backed off,it was 4am and obviously a guy goin out for what you could call a joy ride,at 4am even the drunks are in bed and the roads are empty,if he would have gotten in a crash on his own(rather than with a cop) it probably would have involved him and only him..practically nobody else on the road to worry about,and i feel that pursuing him led directly to his death,whereas letting him go or backing off after getting a plate,he would probably still be alive and well.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


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    Anyone who buys a fast car 500hp or a ninja bike, knows that it is against the law to exceed the speed limit. I think even the Pope most religious, would give the acceleration of the excitement of putting the Pedal to the Metal a try, just one time , yea.
    I did not know the death penalty was a decision a police officer could make on a whim, to
    knowingly cause serious injury or death to a speeding motorist, just for failure to stop for a traffic violation, if not endangering others, example School zone ahead.
    I can see this scenario for someone that had just molested a child, or committed armed robbery, and for this type of criminal the State Of Michigan is lenient to time served.
    Now if the State Of Michigan has the death penalty, not written, why not sentence all scum bags to the Highway, Mad Max version of justice.
    This kid was not a scum bag, just a kid on a fast sport bike making a bad decision.
    The cop made a bad decision too.

  15. #15
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post


    We don't all do incredibly stupid things.
    wow. Talk about denial.

    At 130-140 mph there is no room for error. There is no time to think or react. Add in the fact that it was night and the adrenalin was flowing the outcome is pretty much reduced to living through the crash or not. Regardless of what the cop in front did or didn't do. Still, it's a tragedy for the family to endure.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 05-20-2011 at 01:59 PM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lil_freak_66 View Post
    video i watched,i didnt see the cop swerve,just throwin that out there,i just think the biker wasnt paying attention

    and i heard he got up to 140 mph.

    cops should have backed off,it was 4am and obviously a guy goin out for what you could call a joy ride,at 4am even the drunks are in bed and the roads are empty,if he would have gotten in a crash on his own(rather than with a cop) it probably would have involved him and only him..practically nobody else on the road to worry about,and i feel that pursuing him led directly to his death,whereas letting him go or backing off after getting a plate,he would probably still be alive and well.
    Yep my thoughts are on if it was done intentionally, if not cest la vie.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
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    Many departments have implemented protocol for these types of chases. They are finally realizing they are risking not only the perps life, bu the general public and the officers.

    My township department has a policy in place and would rather a non-violent offender go free than endanger human life. I wish more departments would do the same.
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    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    I watched the video VERY closely, and I could not tell if the officer DID or DID NOT swerve. It was too garbled. I also could not tell if the accident happened in the #1 or #2 lane...

    Just by virtue of his decision to enter the expressway in the manner he did I would conclude it was intentionally a rolling roadblock. Maybe he didn't intend on crashing the kid but he most likely swerved in front of him. If the accident occured in the 'fast' lane, most certainly he swerved.


    Thanks for the points of view everyone.


    "rather a non-violent offender go free than endanger human life."

    Do you people REALLY think so little of human life that you think it's ok to endanger and/or KILL someone over a SPEEDING offense? Pretty sad really if we've come to that point where people think it's ok for you to die because you disobeyed THE MAN....

    Time and time again you see people run from the cops and their excuse? "I freaked out" "I wasn't thinking" "I thought I could get away"

    It's a misnomer that "only criminals run from the cops"... I would think YOU guys would be familiar with stuff like that... "Only criminals carry guns"...


    Police have NO business endangering human life to apprehend a speeder or ANY non-violent offender for that matter.
    Last edited by HKcarrier; 05-20-2011 at 02:35 PM.

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    "Police said he had no reason to run."

    No reason to run? How did he have no reason to run? I bet the implications of an arrest for going 130 mph are pretty significant reasons. He may have been subject to things such as fines, jail time, criminal records, and forfeiture of Driver's license... and he probably figured he could get away. Turns out he did escape conviction, although at a much higher cost.

    If the police let him get away, the plate number may not be enough to secure a conviction. How could you prove who was riding the bike?
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 05-20-2011 at 03:08 PM.

  20. #20
    Michigan Moderator Big Gay Al's Avatar
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    Running from the police is ALWAYS a bad idea. You might out run the cop behind you, but you'll never out run Officer Motorola.

    Whatever the cop did, that the rider ran into, if the suspect hadn't been going so fast, he'd probably still be alive. I'd rather be alive and in jail, and dead and not in jail.

    As far as the "one less idiot" comments, maybe he was. But he didn't deserve to die for being an idiot.
    Last edited by Big Gay Al; 05-20-2011 at 05:01 PM.
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  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felid`Maximus View Post
    "Police said he had no reason to run."

    No reason to run? How did he have no reason to run? I bet the implications of an arrest for going 130 mph are pretty significant reasons. He may have been subject to things such as fines, jail time, criminal records, and forfeiture of Driver's license... and he probably figured he could get away. Turns out he did escape conviction, although at a much higher cost.

    If the police let him get away, the plate number may not be enough to secure a conviction. How could you prove who was riding the bike?
    When I was a teenager in a small town in Coupeville the cops used to harass me and my buddy all the time. Pull us over for no reason when we were riding our motorcycles. Stop us frisk for simply walking after dark....etc. (and not be nice about it)

    One day 2 of the 4 cops in town got shot by a teenager (not a friend) but being a small town someone we knew. All the adults said similar things those cops didn't do anything and what a bad guy Tony was. There was no reason for Tony's actions for a traffic stop. Maybe Tony had things to fear like pot in his car, or something else. Me and my buddy felt no sorrow and concluded maybe they were doing the same thing to Tony and he finally got sick of it.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 05-20-2011 at 07:03 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
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    He had many reasons to run, like have been stated already. I personally know a guy who was accused of running from a cop that was driving the other direction. Then flipped a u turn and took off after the biker and claimed he was running. He spent 2 days in jail and had to go to trial. His bike was towed and impounded. For which he had to pay. The only thing they were able to convict him of was that he was speeding, cuz he admitted to it, while he was in a flow of traffic. And what was he doing...nothing riding along with his friend next to him. So yes the kid, had many reasons to run from. Did he deserve to die from it, hell no. Officer training says they are suppose to get in front the vehicle and slow them up. But a bike...cmon they shouldn't be doing that.
    Should the biker have been running? Maybe not, should the officers have been chasing? Not really.

    "Under our system of government upon the individuality and intelligence of the citizen, the state does not claim to control him/her, except as his/her conduct to others, leaving him/her the sole judge as to all that affects himself/herself." Mugler v. Kansas 123 U.S. 623, 659-60.

    Should the officers have been chasing? No, there was no crime
    "For a crime to exist, there must be an injured party. There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of Constitutional rights."- Sherar v. Cullen, 481 F. 945.

    "Where an individual is detained, without a warrant and without having committed a crime (traffic infractions are not crimes), the detention is a false arrest and false imprisonment." Damages Awarded: Trezevant v. City of Tampa, 241 F2d. 336 (11th CIR 1984)
    Last edited by Motofixxer; 05-21-2011 at 12:02 AM.
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    Me thinks the HEADLINE of this thread is NOT ACCURATE.

    How about: "Speeding Motorcyclist is killed when he strikes a slower moving police cruiser!"

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Gay Al View Post
    Running from the police is ALWAYS a bad idea. You might out run the cop behind you, but you'll never out run Officer Motorola.

    Whatever the cop did, that the rider ran into, if the suspect hadn't been going so fast, he'd probably still be alive. I'd rather be alive and in jail, and dead and not in jail.

    As far as the "one less idiot" comments, maybe he was. But he didn't deserve to die for being an idiot.
    He didn't die FOR being an idiot. He died because he was an idiot doing something incredibly idiotic.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Having been a motorcycle rider for a number of years this is my view:

    1. Yeah, the kid was wrong and stupid. My Dad told me many, many years ago, "Do not run from the police. You will be in far worse trouble."
    2. If the police had broke off the pursuit, since they had his tag number, the kid would most probably still be alive and they could have arrested him at their convenience.
    3. If, in fact, he had run into a car, the odds are, with the cars nowadays, that the most severe injury would have been to the motorcycle rider. Only if he plowed directly into the driver's or passenger's door or went through the windshield would there have been that much of a chance of injury or fatality to the car's occupants.
    4. I am very disappointed in those of you who have said, "One less idiot." Would you say that had it been your son? I doubt it very seriously. Besides, idiot or not, he was a human being. Remember John Donne's quote? Look it up.
    The Leading cause of Fatal accidents anywhere in the world is this one cause.

    TERMINAL STUPIDITY.
    Usually committed by those under the age of 25.
    Which is one reason Insurance Rates for young drivers go down when they hit age 25.

    This was a prime example of that status.
    Last edited by OldCurlyWolf; 05-21-2011 at 05:00 AM.
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