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  1. #1
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    voice recorder

    Just asking for some advice on a voice recorder. I live and OC in North Carolina and have never used or considered a voice recorder for the 3+ years I have been OCing . Can someone give me some ideas on what is a good one and not too awful expensive. After reading some misfortunes from other OC ers I think I might jump in with the voice recorder. Thanks for any advice.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    I have a Sansa C250 mp3 player that's also an excellent voice recorder.

    I recently purchased my first Android phone and the FIRST app I downloaded was Cop Recorder II.

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    In those 3+ yrs, have PD in your area given you any kind of hassle at all? Have you been tackled to the street, have they ever hurt your feelings? Etc?
    Honestly, if over 3 yrs you havent even had to consider jumping onto this trend, why now?
    Dont let the over-told tales of the handful of boneheads who've managed to draw LE attention to themselves worry you too much. It doesnt happen as often-anywhere- as these clowns make it seem. It just gets a lot more hype in here because of the forum's theme.

    If this were a cooking forum-folks would be debating which pots and pans to use,right?

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    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    In those 3+ yrs, have PD in your area given you any kind of hassle at all? Have you been tackled to the street, have they ever hurt your feelings? Etc?
    Honestly, if over 3 yrs you havent even had to consider jumping onto this trend, why now?
    Dont let the over-told tales of the handful of boneheads who've managed to draw LE attention to themselves worry you too much. It doesnt happen as often-anywhere- as these clowns make it seem. It just gets a lot more hype in here because of the forum's theme.

    If this were a cooking forum-folks would be debating which pots and pans to use,right?
    Calling others boneheads is not nice.

    I carry a recorder and have for years, for a variety of reasons. I have also carried in various situations for over 30 years. To date I have not NEEDED either the firearm nor the recorder. And I am definitely NOT a bonehead.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

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    Bonehead?? Clowns???
    Im willing to be you have no idea how some cops treat people who open carry.
    I know I dont because I live in Texas with no open carry. You live in Florida with no open carry! How in the world would you know??? You should thank those "Bonehead's" for the trouble they might save you if you ever do get open carry down there!
    I have had problem with LEO's and gun laws before. The last time I wished I had a recorder because I got thrown in jail by some "BONEHEAD" that didnt even know what the law was! Myself, just like these Clowns, I was not breaking any laws!
    As far as this forum goes, why are you on it if you think its a theme against LEO's? If you would pay attention, this forum has several LEO's who contribute a lot to the right to carry. LEO's with 20+ years of service at that. I dont take anything they have to say about the right to carry as a joke either.

    OH yea, I forgot something....
    Last edited by MR Redenck; 05-21-2011 at 10:00 PM.

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    Thanks, I found some at Walmart. Not too expensive and small enough. No I havent hade one issue with the police, but I have never had a house fire in the 20+ years but I still have smoke detectors. alot of these "bone heads " have had their rights infringed upon and to me thats nothing to joke about. I may never need it or the gun but if I ever do it will be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    Bonehead?? Clowns???
    Im willing to be you have no idea how some cops treat people who open carry.
    I know I dont because I live in Texas with no open carry. You live in Florida with no open carry! How in the world would you know??? You should thank those "Bonehead's" for the trouble they might save you if you ever do get open carry down there!
    I have had problem with LEO's and gun laws before. The last time I wished I had a recorder because I got thrown in jail by some "BONEHEAD" that didnt even know what the law was! Myself, just like these Clowns, I was not breaking any laws!
    As far as this forum goes, why are you on it if you think its a theme against LEO's? If you would pay attention, this forum has several LEO's who contribute a lot to the right to carry. LEO's with 20+ years of service at that. I dont take anything they have to say about the right to carry as a joke either.

    OH yea, I forgot something....

    Why? here's why ,jerky, look at just page 1 of every thread in here. Nuff said.
    There;s almost nothing but "us vs. them" and "theyre out to get us" nonsense all over the place. It's a forum of pro-gun folks. As such, it's got some bias-that's a given.
    Hence the handful of occurances of this nonsense get overplayed,over-hyped and re-hashed all out of proportion to how often it actually happens.

    And ya, you and I are trying to get OC for our states. These clowns doing thier publicity stunts are providing fodder for the antis (political and LEO) who are opposed to us getting that. It has been, and is being, used in hearings over our pro-oc bills. They point to it and say "see? look at these nuts-you want them openly armed?" And so far,for us at least, it's working. Not by itself, but it's contributing to it.

    As for LEOs in here? Yes, Im well aware of them. Im currently working to set up the campaign for one of them to run for Senate for our state,-with the ultimate goal of making the changes we need from within -rather than from publicity stunts on the street, and rants and raves in a forum alone. Approx. 2-3 other LEOs from other agencies in Fl. are also considering a run. And ALL of them are OUR guys.
    Not all the cops are out to get you,folks. Fng relax already.
    Last edited by j4l; 05-22-2011 at 08:43 AM.

  8. #8
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Publicity stunts? Like going about our daily business while OC'ing and being held at gun point and illegally detained and arrested? When it goes to court if you don't have a recorder who does the judge/jury tend to believe?

    If the cops have nothing to hide why not record every inter reaction. And for the majority of us here it isn't us who are promoting the us vs. them feeling it is them doing it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    From where do you make the assumption-once again since the intial contact is almost always missing from the vids/audio of these stunts-that the person was "minding their own" or acting normally?
    And should the officers care? Probably not, but since you know going into to it that they do,you are provoking them by doing so.Agitating them further-right or wrong- and escalating things to levels they dont need to go to. It changes the entire dynamic to one that is confrontational from the get-go. Is it "right" no,but you having a tantrum about it on video or audio isnt going to change that at that moment.

    And in any event, there are methods in place to deal with "unlawful" arrest/detain. If this happens as often as people claim, and if folks make use of those methods for retribution in the courts afterwards, perhaps dept.s would start to come around. But do we see this happening much? No. Who's fault is that? the clown from the stunt, that's who.

    But all this aside. How about yet another tactic-one pre-emptive,rather than reactionary and confrontational on the streets? Most, if not all, major PD's and Sheriff's offices in this country now have civillian review boards and/or advisory councils.
    Most,if not all are free to join. Join em. Go to the meetings. Bring these kinds of issues up. Work -through that venue-with thier chiefs/cpt.s etc to "educate" these officers, and to see to it that the dept.s are passing this info (being lawful to OC there,in this case) and try to get them to see the need to modify their responses to these issues.
    Coming at it from that direction, you may well be surprised how open they are to that approach.
    Any harm to giving it a shot? Has anyone here even remotely attempted to do so?

  10. #10
    Regular Member RR_Broccoli's Avatar
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    I use an Olympus VN-8100c. (about $50)

    It picks up just about any noise in a room when it's under my sweatshirt or in a pocket. Makes MP3s of the files if you set it to, and runs for 23 hours straight. (So, turn it on and forget about it.)

    It has come in handy when I wanted to review what was going on in work meetings.

    There are cheaper models that would probably pick up sound just as well.

    I rigged up a lanyard for it using the hole in the unit for that. (Though it sits upside down then.)

    CHECK THE LAWS IN YOUR STATE. Some states are two party consent, some are one party. In one party states, sometimes you can't be one party in a crowd and be legal with it. Note the difference between public and private space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RR_Broccoli View Post
    I use an Olympus VN-8100c. (about $50)

    It picks up just about any noise in a room when it's under my sweatshirt or in a pocket. Makes MP3s of the files if you set it to, and runs for 23 hours straight. (So, turn it on and forget about it.)

    It has come in handy when I wanted to review what was going on in work meetings.

    There are cheaper models that would probably pick up sound just as well.

    I rigged up a lanyard for it using the hole in the unit for that. (Though it sits upside down then.)

    CHECK THE LAWS IN YOUR STATE. Some states are two party consent, some are one party. In one party states, sometimes you can't be one party in a crowd and be legal with it. Note the difference between public and private space.

    TY RR, for having the sense to point that out to folks. Far too many just dont get it.Or refuse to.

  12. #12
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    From where do you make the assumption-once again since the intial contact is almost always missing from the vids/audio of these stunts-that the person was "minding their own" or acting normally?
    And should the officers care? Probably not, but since you know going into to it that they do,you are provoking them by doing so.Agitating them further-right or wrong- and escalating things to levels they dont need to go to. It changes the entire dynamic to one that is confrontational from the get-go. Is it "right" no,but you having a tantrum about it on video or audio isnt going to change that at that moment.

    And in any event, there are methods in place to deal with "unlawful" arrest/detain. If this happens as often as people claim, and if folks make use of those methods for retribution in the courts afterwards, perhaps dept.s would start to come around. But do we see this happening much? No. Who's fault is that? the clown from the stunt, that's who.

    But all this aside. How about yet another tactic-one pre-emptive,rather than reactionary and confrontational on the streets? Most, if not all, major PD's and Sheriff's offices in this country now have civillian review boards and/or advisory councils.
    Most,if not all are free to join. Join em. Go to the meetings. Bring these kinds of issues up. Work -through that venue-with thier chiefs/cpt.s etc to "educate" these officers, and to see to it that the dept.s are passing this info (being lawful to OC there,in this case) and try to get them to see the need to modify their responses to these issues.
    Coming at it from that direction, you may well be surprised how open they are to that approach.
    Any harm to giving it a shot? Has anyone here even remotely attempted to do so?
    Open carriers have more "contacts" with police than many other law abiding citizens, why not record and protect yourself?

    And yes many folks do join those. I am also for proactively watching and monitoring them if they "have nothing to hide" they have nothing to fear right?

    I also don't appreciate the use of "confrontational" how is trying to protect yourself and your rights "confrontational" I see this word overused by cops and those who suffer from 'copafilia'. And quite get how it applies to most intereactions with police when they are the ones who "confront" the OCer.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Open carriers have more "contacts" with police than many other law abiding citizens, why not record and protect yourself?

    And yes many folks do join those. I am also for proactively watching and monitoring them if they "have nothing to hide" they have nothing to fear right?

    I also don't appreciate the use of "confrontational" how is trying to protect yourself and your rights "confrontational" I see this word overused by cops and those who suffer from 'copafilia'. And quite get how it applies to most intereactions with police when they are the ones who "confront" the OCer.
    So,please, explain how this clip "protected" this dolt from any of what happened,again? I seemed to have missed that.Because it sure didnt seem to prevent or in any real way alter his fate.
    Now, Overt video/audio recording may have altered the outcome somewhat (although probably with the dolt being shot by the idiot cop),because the cop would know he's being monitored.
    Covert recordings without consent (despite being entirely illegal according to that State's statutes) dont accomplish much more than what we've got here=an audio clip of 2 armed idiots making asses of themselves.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Open carriers have more "contacts" with police than many other law abiding citizens, why not record and protect yourself?

    And yes many folks do join those. I am also for proactively watching and monitoring them if they "have nothing to hide" they have nothing to fear right?

    I also don't appreciate the use of "confrontational" how is trying to protect yourself and your rights "confrontational" I see this word overused by cops and those who suffer from 'copafilia'. And quite get how it applies to most intereactions with police when they are the ones who "confront" the OCer.
    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    So,please, explain how this clip "protected" this dolt from any of what happened,again? I seemed to have missed that.Because it sure didnt seem to prevent or in any real way alter his fate.
    Now, Overt video/audio recording may have altered the outcome somewhat (although probably with the dolt being shot by the idiot cop),because the cop would know he's being monitored.
    Covert recordings without consent (despite being entirely illegal according to that State's statutes) dont accomplish much more than what we've got here=an audio clip of 2 armed idiots making asses of themselves.
    You seem to have lost your way. There is no clip referred to on this thread nor have you referenced one.

    You do appear to have propensity for referring to legal OCers as "boneheads" and now "dolts." That is unfortunate and IMO a violation of the rules.

    Digital audio and video recordings have both proven useful in a multitude of incidences in getting matters settled in a beneficial manner - deny it all you will and claim your life is on the line if you do, which also seems a major overstep.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    You seem to have lost your way. There is no clip referred to on this thread nor have you referenced one.

    You do appear to have propensity for referring to legal OCers as "boneheads" and now "dolts." That is unfortunate and IMO a violation of the rules.

    Digital audio and video recordings have both proven useful in a multitude of incidences in getting matters settled in a beneficial manner - deny it all you will and claim your life is on the line if you do, which also seems a major overstep.
    Not at all. I refer to legal OCers who conduct themselves as dolts and boneheads as such, leaving the touchy-feely/pc work-arounds to those of a more sensitive nature.
    Recordings-where even legal to do so- if done properly,may indeed prove beneficial to some. Show-boating, publicity-stunts, and provocations on videos posted throughout this forum, serve only to make pro OC folks look like the "gun nuts" we so hate being called.

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    "multitude of incidences "

    Multitude? Really? Cite 5 ,please. Including final outcomes of court cases.

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    You got a bad attitude Mr. ..
    I will only suggest people do what they feel necessary. If you think your going to benefit yourself by allowing some Natzi cop to lie in court about violating your rights, then go right ahead.
    You just remember one thing, it was Florida LE and the NRA that screwed your chances for open carry this year. I really hope yall find a way to resolve that kind of opposition and do better next time.
    If or when you do get open carry back in Florida, I'll bet you will find the need to carry a recorder yourself.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    You got a bad attitude Mr. ..
    I will only suggest people do what they feel necessary. If you think your going to benefit yourself by allowing some Natzi cop to lie in court about violating your rights, then go right ahead.
    You just remember one thing, it was Florida LE and the NRA that screwed your chances for open carry this year. I really hope yall find a way to resolve that kind of opposition and do better next time.
    If or when you do get open carry back in Florida, I'll bet you will find the need to carry a recorder yourself.
    Genius,show me one case. Just one. Where recordings of this sort were even allowed into evidence in any court case where such recordings are illegal, in the defense of a clown doing this.
    Just 1....







    didnt think so,either.


    Yes, it was Florida LE as a huge part of it. Guess what they pointed to as part of thier arguements in opposition to the bill? You got it: THIS.
    Clips/vids and internet posts of yahoos making fools of themsevles in the hopes of somehow "changing" or drawing attention to the cause indeed had some impact on law-makers opinions.

    And, having discussed it at length with a number of my local LEO's, they are largely in favor of OC- despite what the Sheriff's Association said. The ones on the street?-no issue here. So Im far from concerned about it.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Not at all. I refer to legal OCers who conduct themselves as dolts and boneheads as such, leaving the touchy-feely/pc work-arounds to those of a more sensitive nature.
    Recordings-where even legal to do so- if done properly,may indeed prove beneficial to some. Show-boating, publicity-stunts, and provocations on videos posted throughout this forum, serve only to make pro OC folks look like the "gun nuts" we so hate being called.
    Could you please provide some reference to the specific incidents you seem to be alluding to? It's difficult to sort out the behavior of the "dolts" and "boneheads" from the behavior of the rest of the folks who OC when we have no real idea of what you mean by "dolt" or "bonehead" behavior.

    What is "showboating" and if you would be kind enough please lead this not-as-bright-as-you-apparently-are person to an example or two. The same goes for "publicity stunts" and "provocations".

    Let me give you an idea of what I think you are referring to - you can then tell me if I'm close to on-target or not. In Michigan at the CADL someone was accused of "blatantly thrusting his holstered firearm towards" some other person. While I'm not sure if the provocativeness of that would be more sexually provocative than anything else, it does read as if some boneheaded dolt was showboating in order to create a provocative situation in order to generate publicity. I refer to the journalismist/reportologist who wrote that description, as opposed to the person OCing at the Library.

    Hoping to read some actual descriptions of actual behavior that you are actually referring to, I await your response.

    stay safe.

  20. #20
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    j4l=TROLL.
    President/ Founding Member
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    www.laopencarry.org

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yale View Post
    j4l=TROLL.
    I think just mislead. And seems to be on a mission on changing all OC'ers into acting how he would......probably a lifetime NRA member.....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    "multitude of incidences "

    Multitude? Really? Cite 5 ,please. Including final outcomes of court cases.
    First I did NOT state court cases specifically. Why must people misquote others or imply they said what they did not? Many "cases" never reach court because of the recordings.

    While I do not intend to be drawn in to a long discourse on opinions, I will provide the outcome of some of which I am personally aware.

    1) Personally stopped by local LEOs (6 officers with 5 cars) lead by a Sgt. demanding ID and my CHP for my gun. The RAS WAS OCing and that both a permit and ID were subject to demand. It didn't happen - I walked away with pictures and audio recording. Following my complaint the Sgt. was 1st moved to a desk job then later because of her file jacket was give the opportunity to resign - she did.

    2) State Republican Convention at Richmond Coliseum where certain members as Sgt. of Arms OCd but were told we could not enter, but did while recording. Both the building and the venue were open to the public - the "rule" strangely disappeared and huge numbers of VCDL members and Va OCers attended the convention carrying when they results were posted.

    3) Glenn Beck show in Richmond - half a dozen OCers where passing out info when approached by local PD in mass and management agent and told we were on private property and could not enter with guns. This was a management agent decision on public property and not at the request of the venue. We were recording and filming because an independent media rep wanted material for a documentary. Worked out well.

    We did not stop passing out info, did enter OCing w/o incident and the sign saying "No Weapons" was changed.

    4) We have The Tony's Five incident in Va - you may google it.
    Family oriented group peacefully eating with restaurant owners full knowledge and acceptance.

    5) There is the presently referred to case below in my signature line which will in part be decided on recordings having been destroyed by those responsible for preserving them - now there is a switch.

    6) Rather than do all of your work for you - you may search various state forums here - I suggest PA, WA, VA, OR, NV and LA. In the words of a friend of mine, you could hit 4 or 5 by swinging a dead cat in any of those.

    I must be one of those boneheads, dolts, idiots, half-a$$es, clowns or jerkies to which you refer because I always carry a running recorder. Not because I want trouble , but because when it does happen it is generally without warning.

    I don't always carry the recorder unseen. If I stop to eat by myself, I sometimes lay the recorder on the table with the red light flashing right in front of my food. It has so far guaranteed an opportunity to eat and run when I have wanted to do so uninterrupted.

    My concern by certain references to individuals is that you are not talking about the problem but rather your subjective opinion of the person - name calling. I think your goals would be better represented w/o such character representations.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Your mouth is getting pretty offensive! Can you not carry on a conversation without name calling? You attitude is not helping you at all.
    I dont remember saying anything about a court case! If your court wont allow audio recording, thats your problem.
    The audio recordings do a whole lot more than you think. Look at the media coverage the kid in Philly got. Even if the audio recording isnt allow in his court system, the media has made the public aware of the "police" problem.
    "Another word for the public is Constituent"!!!
    The bests result of audio recordings is the fact that the "Public" will become aware!
    Best of luck to ya, im done arguing your crap!

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Kshmedeka had a case in Washington court thrown out when he presented the recording of an incident in court, that contrasted the officers sworn reports and testimony. (I don't believe it was OC related though).

    Flora vs. Washington is one that shows recording police in their job is not illegal and helped this person in his case. (not OC related)

    In Washington Forum TomBrewsters recording of the police harrassing him for nearly in hr.because of his refusal to show ID, helped in educating and training the officer in how to handle 4A in public places. They were demanding to see ID because of his OC.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 05-22-2011 at 03:57 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
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    Way to go Grapeshot. You sir impress me often.

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