St. Louis Metro Police Chief, Dan Isom, Blames Missouri Legislature...

nrepuyan · May 21, 2011

...for his short comings at managing his department....

http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-isom-gun-violence-52011,0,588595.story

By Charles Jaco
FOX2now.com
May 20, 2011

ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI— St. Louis has the second highest rate of young people aged 10 to 19 being killed by handguns. Only New Orleans is a more deadly city for teenagers. But where do the street guns come from? A conversation with St. Louis Police Chief Dan Isom provides some surprising answers.

Contrary to popular belief, the majority of crime guns seized by city police were not stolen. "Around 60 to 70 per-cent of the crime guns were never reported stolen," said Isom, a veteran officer who holds a Ph.D. in criminology from the University of Missouri-St. Louis. "Most seem to be guns that are just passed from one person to another. There are so many guns available that most of these guns are apparently transferred from acquaintance to acquaintance."

Isom said statistics compiled by both his department and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms also show the majority of street crime guns originated with legal purchases in the state of Missouri. "The ability of anyone to buy a firearm in the state of Missouri is very easy," he said. "You can walk into a store and if you have identification, buy a handgun that same day. And there's no limit to the number of handguns you can buy."

Another problem, said Isom, is that Missouri has no laws top penalize anyone found in possession of an illegal handgun. "Illinois just passed a law with automatic jail time for anyone in possession of an illegal weapon," he said. "New York has a similar law. Here in Missouri, the state legislature refuses to pass that legislation. So we have to depend on harder police work, For example, arresting someone who is a felon in possession of a weapon. But the Missouri law allows more guns on the street."

The popular perception is that guns used in street crimes are cheap handguns, the so-called Saturday Night Specials. But police statistics show the three weapons most often seized from criminals are relatively expensive mainstream weapons--the .38 caliber Smith & Wesson, the nine millimeter Ruger pistol, and the .40 caliber Smith & Wesson.

kcgunfan · May 21, 2011

This all seems so silly. I would disagree with a law giving jail time for possession of a stolen weapon, simply because the person you bought it from may have gotten it illicitly. Or maybe the person that sold it to him. How can you expect to go back through its entire history?

Even from the chief's own words, most of the guns used in the commission of a crime were not stolen, they were simply passed around. So, passing a law for possession of a stolen weapon won't even fix the problem he's whining about.

What I would be glad to see would be a penalty enhancer for committing a crime with a weapon of 20 years or so. Seems like you're more likely to get bad guys, and just bad guys with that type of a law.

cshoff · May 21, 2011

Sounds like the Chief is lacking a degree in common sense. Guns aren't the problem, chief, criminals are. You can lay the blame squarely on the mismanagement of the city by liberal politicians for the past 50 years. The city didn't turn itself into a cesspool, it was created by big government, nanny state programs one freeloader at a time.

MKEgal · May 21, 2011

But where do the street guns come from?

A good question. I think they come from broken homes.
If only the parents paid more attention to their .22s when they were little, they wouldn't grow into troublemaking street guns. Give them some guidance, and maybe they'd become an Olympic pistol!

Another problem, said Isom, is that Missouri has no laws to penalize anyone found in possession of an illegal handgun. "So we have to depend on harder police work, For example, arresting someone who is a felon in possession of a weapon."

Huh? He says there aren't laws, then he says there are.
If a gun is illegal for some reason, wouldn't it be contraband, & isn't there some law against possessing contraband?
And what makes a handgun illegal in MO anyway? In Chicago there's a list of guns that are illegal for various reasons, including things like not having a trigger guard.

kcgunfan said:
What I would be glad to see would be a penalty enhancer for committing a crime with a weapon of 20 years or so. Seems like you're more likely to get bad guys, and just bad guys with that type of a law.

Um, no. I have personally seen a judge rule that someone's property (pistol) must be destroyed because it was "used in the commission of a crime"... even when it wasn't.

If the pistol was in the car when someone was stopped for DUI.
If the pistol was being carried concealed (illegal here in WI), even though the person fit the exemptions provided for by WI Supreme Court rulings!

I even heard a city attorney argue that one gal's property should be destroyed because she was carrying concealed inside her own apartment!! Luckily the judge knew the law better than the attorney.

And there were several rulings for destruction where the person was not convicted, let alone accused, of any crime. The police took the gun while investigating something, and refuse to give it back without a court order.

So if there's a law like the one you propose, it must be very narrowly tailored.
Quote specific statutes, or list specific crimes:
Assault, battery, rape, robbery, manslaughter, murder.
Any crime on a child victim, or someone legally considered to have a similar status.
Maybe lesser crimes like intimidation, too.

But know that none of that will stop crime, only keep criminals off the street & in their training facilities a bit longer if they're caught & convicted.

9026543 · May 21, 2011

Chief Isom is just a political pawn of St Louis Mayor Slay and they are both pissed that they didn't wrest total control of the St Louis police department from the legislature this session so they are blaming everything even their own failures on the legislature.

LMTD · May 21, 2011

When people wonder why some police officers make huge mistakes while dealing with citizens they need to remember stupidity like this so they remember to sue the department and the chief for teaching the officers in their charge such BS>

All school resource officer programs, dare programs, and other officer friendly programs designed to teach children the police are the good guys should indeed be eliminated in all areas where the leadership can not pass simple constitutional testing.

I really have no idea how the good cops do it, working for idiots all day long must be a huge level of stress from that alone.

Seems like since as a population of legal citizens whom knowingly put themselves into a position to engage the police in a more frequent manner, we might want to say thanks and tip our hats when an officer does a good job. They have such a crappy example to follow it is little wonder.

Festus_Hagen · May 21, 2011

LMTD said:
When people wonder why some police officers make huge mistakes while dealing with citizens they need to remember stupidity like this so they remember to sue the department and the chief for teaching the officers in their charge such BS>

All school resource officer programs, dare programs, and other officer friendly programs designed to teach children the police are the good guys should indeed be eliminated in all areas where the leadership can not pass simple constitutional testing.

I really have no idea how the good cops do it, working for idiots all day long must be a huge level of stress from that alone.

Seems like since as a population of legal citizens whom knowingly put themselves into a position to engage the police in a more frequent manner, we might want to say thanks and tip our hats when an officer does a good job. They have such a crappy example to follow it is little wonder.

I agree with your statement.

wow6599 · May 21, 2011

9026543 said:
Chief Isom is just a political pawn of St Louis Mayor Slay and they are both pissed that they didn't wrest total control of the St Louis police department from the legislature this session so they are blaming everything even their own failures on the legislature.

This ^

kcgunfan · May 21, 2011

MKEgal said:
A good question. I think they come from broken homes.
If only the parents paid more attention to their .22s when they were little, they wouldn't grow into troublemaking street guns. Give them some guidance, and maybe they'd become an Olympic pistol!

Huh? He says there aren't laws, then he says there are.
If a gun is illegal for some reason, wouldn't it be contraband, & isn't there some law against possessing contraband?
And what makes a handgun illegal in MO anyway? In Chicago there's a list of guns that are illegal for various reasons, including things like not having a trigger guard.

Um, no. I have personally seen a judge rule that someone's property (pistol) must be destroyed because it was "used in the commission of a crime"... even when it wasn't.

If the pistol was in the car when someone was stopped for DUI.
If the pistol was being carried concealed (illegal here in WI), even though the person fit the exemptions provided for by WI Supreme Court rulings!

I even heard a city attorney argue that one gal's property should be destroyed because she was carrying concealed inside her own apartment!! Luckily the judge knew the law better than the attorney.

And there were several rulings for destruction where the person was not convicted, let alone accused, of any crime. The police took the gun while investigating something, and refuse to give it back without a court order.

So if there's a law like the one you propose, it must be very narrowly tailored.
Quote specific statutes, or list specific crimes:
Assault, battery, rape, robbery, manslaughter, murder.
Any crime on a child victim, or someone legally considered to have a similar status.
Maybe lesser crimes like intimidation, too.

But know that none of that will stop crime, only keep criminals off the street & in their training facilities a bit longer if they're caught & convicted.

Assuming that this year's firearms bill pass, basically, there's a very short list of unallowed firearms: NFA items without the proper FFL and spring guns.

There are laws against a felon in possession, but there is not a law against lawful citizens in possession of a stolen weapon. I think that's what the chief's beef is.

Just because prosecutors overreach doesn't mean we should not have laws. We just need to have a properly working adversarial legal system with an impartial judge. Sometimes, you don't even get that, and that's why there are appeals. And, sometimes, that fails also. It sucks, but tends to happen less in MO than you might think. We can argue why that is all weekend.

I agree such a law should be narrowly tailored. I was trying to do such by saying that the crime had to be committed with a firearm (meaning something more than the mere presence of a firearm.) So, a DUI would not be eligible. In Missouri, it would make sense to limit it to what we call forcible felonies, which is the list of felonies that we are permitted to respond to with lethal force. I just can't make up my mind about intimidation...

I know that none of this will stop crime. The instances of police stopping crime is very few and far between. I pretty much implied that when I called this proposed law a penalty enhancer.

LMTD · May 21, 2011

Uhm, I think I am going to disagree with this theory about stolen guns.

Receiving stolen property.

570.080. 1. A person commits the crime of receiving stolen property if for the purpose of depriving the owner of a lawful interest therein, he or she receives, retains or disposes of property of another knowing that it has been stolen, or believing that it has been stolen.

2. Evidence of the following is admissible in any criminal prosecution pursuant to this section to prove the requisite knowledge or belief of the alleged receiver:

(1) That he or she was found in possession or control of other property stolen on separate occasions from two or more persons;

(2) That he or she received other stolen property in another transaction within the year preceding the transaction charged;

(3) That he or she acquired the stolen property for a consideration which he or she knew was far below its reasonable value;

(4) That he or she obtained control over stolen property knowing the property to have been stolen or under such circumstances as would reasonably induce a person to believe the property was stolen.

3. Receiving stolen property is a class A misdemeanor unless the property involved has a value of five hundred dollars or more, or the person receiving the property is a dealer in goods of the type in question, or the property involved is an explosive weapon as that term is defined in section 571.010, in which cases receiving stolen property is a class C felony.

What the idiot is REALLLLLLY whining about is there is no SPECIAL law about GUNS. He hates guns and the folks whom like to have guns, he is WORTHLESS almost as WORTHLESS as Charles Jaco whom takes great pride in propagating lies about GUNS despite being a gun owner and CCW license holder himself.

You cant fix STUPID.

cash50 · May 21, 2011

Chief Isom = Mr. Mackey....Guns are bad, m'kay?

St. Louis Metro Police Chief, Dan Isom, Blames Missouri Legislature...

nrepuyan

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kcgunfan

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cshoff

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MKEgal

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9026543

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LMTD

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Festus_Hagen

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LMTD

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cash50

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