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Thread: Bump -n-Robs?

  1. #1
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    Bump -n-Robs?

    Ok, so with this type of incident in mind, what is -technically-a legal, armed response for us in Florida. (re- sidearm in the vehicle)

    http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/cr...p-1484615.html

  2. #2
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Yeah, I can see your being charged with leaving the scene even if some of the Florida LEOs are issuing warnings not to stop.

    Problem with a firearm-related response to the bump-and-rob is that they are behind you, you don't have a clear backstop. As a test, just go to a parking lot and experiment and see how quickly you can get out of your seatbelt, put the car in park and deploy the HG to the rear, where you have no protection of the car door (and the BG does have his door between you). It's an untenable position which is why it works so well for the BG.

    So, in that event, where possible do not stop your car at a light without being able to clearly see the right back tire in whole. This gives you clearance to go around and drive off. Avoid the understandable response to get out and inspect damage. I don't think I'd stop even in the daytime to something like a light bump. I'm frequently watching my 6 in the rear view when I come up to a traffic light to watch for still accelerating cars, though it's not foolproof.

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    Well being armed is a given,there's always going to be something at hand,for me.
    My question was more specific to -under Fla. law with carrying a sidearm in a car-
    ""securely encased" and "not accessible for immediate use" -another of those "defeats the purpose" situations,whether one stops to get out or not.

    Consider-now that the word is out on this tactic, if folks start driving away from a bump like this, and it ends up being a bump-n-robber who bumped you, what if these clowns now decide to give chase because their bumpee just drove off instead of getting out? Or, if they open fire on your vehicle as you are driving off?
    A technically-legal carry of a sidearm in some secured manner "not accesible for immediate use" makes things a bit iffy sometimes-depending on the vehicle the victim is in, no?

    If someone who is legally armed, and carrying in the car in accordance with the above, and ends up having to engage clowns like this-what, I wonder,if any legal problems can they now find themselves in?
    Last edited by j4l; 05-21-2011 at 10:48 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    If you have a CWFL, you can have the gun on you. Not ready for immediate use does not apply to you. The glovebox is a pretty quick access point if you don't. If you're threatened with a deadly weapon, be it a gun or a vehicle, you may fire at will. Just don't hit any innocent bystanders.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    If any of these guys are caught, I'd hope they'd ask how they target victims. It would provide a clue how to not be a victim of it, perhaps.

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    Im inclined to think they are targeting whoever happens to be in front of them at the moment, when the coast looks clear to do so. Not sure they have a particular targeting method,but it would be nice to find out..

    The funny thing about this is I half-thought I was about to have one of these situations a few nights ago. Turned out not to,so no harm/no foul. But it got me to thinking such a scenario over, and taking a closer look at placement of my sidearm when in the vehicle for most effective draw/use if needed. (never bad to update/review such things,no?)
    And then today-here's this article. Interesting timing...

    Now, at the time, my pistol is where I normally keep it-clipped to the right-side of my seat .
    When a truck kept creeping right up on my tailgate-no matter what speed I was doing, I initially thought it just a tailgating jerk. But...the thought crossed my mind of a bump-stop tactic as I approached a traffic light, and he didnt slow down much.
    So, I reached down and dropped the saftey,but kept the pistol in the holster-at my side-ready to go just in case.
    The wife saw this and looked at me and said I was paranoid..I described the tactic,and said it was caution,not paranoia.
    So.....

  7. #7
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Back-up-gun in a cargo pocket is fairly accessable while driving, I like this for only this purpose alone, otherwise I hate having a llittle gun loose in a pocket, but it's a lot easier than digging out of a seat-belted IWB. Glove box is a good idea, and easy to get to.
    Legally- if I get bumped, I'll stop and STAY IN MY SEAT (absolutely don't get out, in the vehicle you have a defensive situation, with at least something between you and them if they start shooting at you. They can't use their fists or knives against you through a car either. Moving out is putting you at risk unprepared). Unbelt and keep my hand on the pocket gun or glovebox gun without brandishing it. This way you're still legal for concealment/car carry, and legal for not being a drive-off if it was a legit accident. If they make an attempt to get in your car or get you out of it, floor it and get out of there if you're not blocked in. If they show a gun, and/or you're blocked in and they're getting in, then it's time for legal SD.


    *******THIS IS EXACTLY WHY UNIVERSITIES TRYING TO FORBID YOU FROM KEEPING A GUN IN YOUR CAR IS EVIL AND SHOULD BE CHARGED AS CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE*******
    Last edited by ~*'Phoenix'*~; 05-21-2011 at 02:15 PM.
    American Government 101:
    The Executive branch's job is to provide celebrity figureheads for the pandering populace.
    The Legislative branch's job is to progressively destroy our freedoms for the "safety" of "We the Sheeple."
    The Judicial branch's job is to look like they're defending our freedoms against the abuses of the Legislative branch, only by token gestures that do not interfere is this pivotal process, but enough to deceive "We the People" into a false sense of security.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Good thoughts but I would still suggest an anticipatory action, watch your mirror as you come up to a stop and be prepared to turn right, keep sufficient space.

    When you're in a car you are still mobile - use that to your tactical advantage. It's not easy always being in condition orange at lights, and at night it's not easy to see what's happening in the glare of the headlights. I would not take any solace in being inside the car, solely, because a rolled up window isn't much of a barrier.

    What I find particularly alarming is that in at least one incident the victim was shot and not robbed. To me this is indicative of a spree killer. It does not sound like a 'trend'. Spree killers are not frequently encountered. It may be isolated to Florida, or at least I hope so.

    Stay safe out there guys!

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    No telling. Could be the same pair doing all of em,or not.
    Also, to consider how long will it be before they begin resorting to using 2 vehicles.
    1 in front to block you-or cause you to hit the brakes/stop the other behind...
    Now, you have 2 threats-front and rear...and possibly boxed-in.
    Not unheard of,such a tactic.

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    I dont know what the Florida law says, but you should , as a human being, be able to defend yourself against such BS any way you feel necessary!
    Law Makers aren't there to protect you. Dont count on the cops, their too busy screwing with people that have not committed any criminal acts against another person. " It's not their fault, their simply enforcing the BS laws your law makers create in attempt to get your money". Chasing actual criminal isn't as profitable to the state as writing seat belt tickets.

  11. #11
    Regular Member ~*'Phoenix'*~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    What I find particularly alarming is that in at least one incident the victim was shot and not robbed. To me this is indicative of a spree killer. It does not sound like a 'trend'. Spree killers are not frequently encountered. It may be isolated to Florida, or at least I hope so.

    Stay safe out there guys!
    I wouldn't be surprised if there were both some enterprising robbers and a random homicidal maniac riding their tactic for all it's worth?

    Definitely try to stay mobile/able to drive away if they exhibit any hostile or suspicious actions. If you got bumped from behind, remember, it's their fault and they got no right to be upset at you. If they are, they're probably getting ready to mug you.
    If you can't get out of such a scene, keep your gun close at hand and light them up if they show a weapon or try to get into your vehicle.
    Last edited by ~*'Phoenix'*~; 05-21-2011 at 06:01 PM.
    American Government 101:
    The Executive branch's job is to provide celebrity figureheads for the pandering populace.
    The Legislative branch's job is to progressively destroy our freedoms for the "safety" of "We the Sheeple."
    The Judicial branch's job is to look like they're defending our freedoms against the abuses of the Legislative branch, only by token gestures that do not interfere is this pivotal process, but enough to deceive "We the People" into a false sense of security.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    No telling. Could be the same pair doing all of em,or not.
    Also, to consider how long will it be before they begin resorting to using 2 vehicles.
    1 in front to block you-or cause you to hit the brakes/stop the other behind...
    Now, you have 2 threats-front and rear...and possibly boxed-in.
    Not unheard of,such a tactic.
    Yes, the accepted technique is to have a person in front and have them hit the brakes so you run into them. Being 'at fault' you are more obliged to stop and hope they'll just say 'no damage, no problem'. At that point, if you look like a good (read:rich) target they'll do the robbery. I think the previous scam was more towards insurance fraud than actual robbery and murder.

    You can google staged accidents and car bump fraud and find reports.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    I love how my government disarms me when I drive on base to go to work, then I have to stop at traffic lights at 0200 in the morning right next to murder scenes. Luckily something like this hasn't happened to me yet. But if it does I blame the military/government/legislators 110% for disarming me and giving me no option to even use the armory before/after work.

    I think I'm going to use this as support and submit something to the Air Force's IDEA program about fixing this bull crap.

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    give em hell

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Seems their easiest targets would be people with anti-gun bumper stickers... Political bumper stickers relating to anti-gun party players... An those total morons that put the stickers of the whole family, Mom, Dad, Kids, animals... Just makes it easier to account for the whole mess when carjacking/ransoming.

    I just cannot understand the parent who doesn't think their own kids are worth fighting for.

    I don't see this as being a difficult to defeat tactic. Maybe the shifter is an issue for you automatic transmission drivers, but in a manual, it's easy: Clutch down cuz I'm stopping anyway, throw it to neutral, pull parking brake. Even if I miss neutral, the parking break will stall it. Seat belt can't catch right arm. If I do get my left arm caught, I can still rotate my body 180 while only exposing my right arm.

    Who stops dead in the street when hit from behind? I always move the vehicles to the nearest parking lot before getting out. It's stupid and dangerous to sit there blocking traffic.
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Yes, the accepted technique is to have a person in front and have them hit the brakes so you run into them. Being 'at fault' you are more obliged to stop and hope they'll just say 'no damage, no problem'. At that point, if you look like a good (read:rich) target they'll do the robbery. I think the previous scam was more towards insurance fraud than actual robbery and murder.
    This one is called the "swoop and squat." They usually box you in. With another vehicle. Had it done to me once. They pack as many into the car as they can, and they all have such terrible neck pain that didn't exist until a cop or ambulance got there...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    If you have a CWFL, you can have the gun on you. Not ready for immediate use does not apply to you. The glovebox is a pretty quick access point if you don't. If you're threatened with a deadly weapon, be it a gun or a vehicle, you may fire at will. Just don't hit any innocent bystanders.
    When I had no CWFL I carried in the car in a gladware container. "Encased in a container with a lid that must be removed." A flap holster in the door pocket my be passable. The Statute says it is to be interpreted broadly in favor of the citizen...
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

    https://gunthreadadapters.com

    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  18. #18
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    I love how my government disarms me when I drive on base to go to work, then I have to stop at traffic lights at 0200 in the morning right next to murder scenes. Luckily something like this hasn't happened to me yet. But if it does I blame the military/government/legislators 110% for disarming me and giving me no option to even use the armory before/after work.

    I think I'm going to use this as support and submit something to the Air Force's IDEA program about fixing this bull crap.
    What happens if you leave it in the glovebox? Git-mo? Do they search your vehicle?
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Resto Guy's Avatar
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    Whenever I am visiting in Florida, I wear a cross draw holster on my left side. That includes driving. I can reach it pretty quick if need be.
    I hope I never have to.

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    News is reporting they arrested two 17 year olds in connection with this...

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member Jojo712's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j4l View Post
    Well being armed is a given,there's always going to be something at hand,for me.
    My question was more specific to -under Fla. law with carrying a sidearm in a car-
    ""securely encased" and "not accessible for immediate use" -another of those "defeats the purpose" situations,whether one stops to get out or not.

    Consider-now that the word is out on this tactic, if folks start driving away from a bump like this, and it ends up being a bump-n-robber who bumped you, what if these clowns now decide to give chase because their bumpee just drove off instead of getting out? Or, if they open fire on your vehicle as you are driving off?
    A technically-legal carry of a sidearm in some secured manner "not accesible for immediate use" makes things a bit iffy sometimes-depending on the vehicle the victim is in, no?

    If someone who is legally armed, and carrying in the car in accordance with the above, and ends up having to engage clowns like this-what, I wonder,if any legal problems can they now find themselves in?
    As long as you have your concealed carry permit, you can carry on your body.

  22. #22
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    Hey I ant relaying on the door for anything, better to have your gun then not, might not help, but it might and it wont if it ant there
    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Yeah, I can see your being charged with leaving the scene even if some of the Florida LEOs are issuing warnings not to stop.

    Problem with a firearm-related response to the bump-and-rob is that they are behind you, you don't have a clear backstop. As a test, just go to a parking lot and experiment and see how quickly you can get out of your seatbelt, put the car in park and deploy the HG to the rear, where you have no protection of the car door (and the BG does have his door between you). It's an untenable position which is why it works so well for the BG.

    So, in that event, where possible do not stop your car at a light without being able to clearly see the right back tire in whole. This gives you clearance to go around and drive off. Avoid the understandable response to get out and inspect damage. I don't think I'd stop even in the daytime to something like a light bump. I'm frequently watching my 6 in the rear view when I come up to a traffic light to watch for still accelerating cars, though it's not foolproof.

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