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Thread: Sam Ash Music Store in Capital Blvd in Raleigh does not allow firearms

  1. #1
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    Sam Ash Music Store in Capital Blvd in Raleigh does not allow firearms

    I took my daughter to Sam Ash today to get a guitar repaired. I was carrying my Colt Defender .45 and my Kel-Tec 32 when I saw the dreaded sign on the door.

    I checked and they are already listed on www.friendorfoe.us.

    I am composing an email to their corporate office:
    hq@samashmusic.com

    I'll let you know what, if any reply I get from them.

    Free free to send an email of your own their way expressing your thoughts about them disarming their patrons.

  2. #2
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    Here's what I wrote:
    To whom it may concern,

    I took my daughter to your Raleigh, NC location today to get a guitar repaired. I have a North Carolina Concealed Handgun permit and as is customary I was armed. I was shocked and appalled to see a "No Firearms" sticker on the front door of your store.

    You must realize what an incredibly bad idea it is to disarm law-abiding citizens who simply want to exercise their God-given, Constitutionally guaranteed right to bear arms for their protection and the protection of those around them. CCH holders do not commit gun-related crimes. Numerous studies have shown that all forms of violent crime drop sharply and immediately when concealed carry is permitted. This same reduction does NOT apply to "gun free" zones within areas where CC would otherwise be permitted (e.g. state parks).
    A criminal, intent on committing a crime will not obey a "No Firearms" sticker. You are effectively creating a gun-free zone where your patrons are guaranteed to be helpless victims and advertising that fact to predatory criminals. As recent shootings at Virginia Tech. and Fort Hood demonstrate, mass-murderers choose "gun-free" zones to commit their violence because they know their victims are disarmed.

    Until such time as I see the sign has been removed I will not be able to do business at your store because I refuse to reduce myself to helpless victim status and voluntarily disarm myself when there are other businesses who allow the legal carry of firearms by law abiding citizens (Guitar Center is right across the street from your Raleigh store and they respect my right to carry).

    Your business has been listed on http://www.friendorfoe.us and being unfriendly to gun owners and I am posting my experience on the http://opencarry.org forums as well. There are hundreds of thousands of gun owners who frequent these sights.

    I sincerely hope that you will reverse your position and order that the signs be removed from all your locations.

    Thank you for taking the time to read my letter.

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Regards,

    xxxx xxxxxxxx
    Cary, NC.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    That is a very well-written letter.

    I especially like the fact that you told them you would be taking your future business elsewhere, and told them EXACTLY where--a close-by competitor.

    It was also a nice touch that you let them know you were making their policy known on national forums and gun-rights databases. This way they know that not only are YOU displeased with their policy, but that tens of thousands of other like-minded people nation-wide will find out about it...

    The only thing these people understand is being "hit in the wallet". Good job!
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Well done patriot !!!

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    Response from Sam Ash Corporate

    Here's the response to my email:

    From: Paul Ash [mailto:Paul.Ash@samashmusic.com]
    Sent: Monday, May 23, 2011 1:53 PM
    To: Greg Bradburn
    Subject: RE: I'm very disappointed

    RE: I'm very disappointed

    Dear Greg:

    We do not require the sign. The employees felt a need and did it on their own. Please consider their feelings and lock your gun in your car when visiting us. Guitar center has their own policy.

    Thank you for understanding.
    Sincerely,

    Paul J. Ash
    President
    Sam Ash Music Corporation
    Ph. 516 686-4101
    Fax. 516 938 1437
    "Serving Musicians since 1924!!!"
    And here's my response:
    Paul,

    Thank you very much for your prompt response. I am glad to hear that this is not Sam Ash Corporate Policy. I will discuss this with the management of that store since you say the employees “felt a need” and I would be very interested in hearing why they feel it is necessary to disarm law-abiding citizens inside their store. Perhaps they can be persuaded to remove their sign.

    As for considering their feelings, if they insist on disarming their customers I will sadly limit my music purchases to businesses who respect their customer’s rights and feelings.

    Thanks again,

    Greg Bradburn.
    Last edited by Greg Bradburn; 05-23-2011 at 02:08 PM.

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    wow I about spit my morning coffee all over my computer when i read the part about "Please consider their feelings and lock your gun in your car when visiting us". what kinda crap is that?! do they think the bad guys consider "feelings" when they are robbing a place? whatever happened to the customer is always right?

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    Yup, about did the same thing when I read this post. The problem is that most business’ nowadays care less about the customer and sadly most people allow it.
    I personally quit shopping at Sam Ash due to the poor service that I had received in the past and this post will put the icing on the cake for me and they won’t ever get my business again. I would rather pay a little more and get great customer service, but that is just me.
    Although makes me wonder how their feelings would be once more OCers stop spending their hard earned cash there.

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    I agree with you guys. I will, at some point. go back and talk with the management of the Raleigh store and see if they can be persuaded to take their sign down. I'm not overly optimistic and if the won't, I don't see any reason to ever set foot in their store again.

  9. #9
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    Same Response from Mr. Ash

    I wrote to them also, just added this header:
    I am an active musician and in the past have travelled to Raleigh often and purchased many items for myself and children at Sam Ash, however I have been made aware that you have a No Firearms posting. etc..
    ==================================
    Response:
    RE: No Firearms Allowed?

    I understand your position. Our store personnel decided to post the sign on their own. I will respect that.

    Sincerely,

    Paul J. Ash
    President
    Sam Ash Music Corporation
    Ph. 516 686-4101
    Fax. 516 938 1437
    "Serving Musicians since 1924!!!"
    ==================================

    Oh well, I respect his position to lose my business. Guitar Center and Musicians Friend don't have a problem with carrying.

  10. #10
    Regular Member TatManDo's Avatar
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    Yelp

    Wouldn't hurt to add your reviews to Yelp also...

    http://www.yelp.com/biz/sam-ash-rale...b9uR1auvt7gzzQ

  11. #11
    Regular Member EricDailey X-NRA's Avatar
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    What about...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Bradburn View Post
    I agree with you guys. I will, at some point. go back and talk with the management of the Raleigh store and see if they can be persuaded to take their sign down. I'm not overly optimistic and if the won't, I don't see any reason to ever set foot in their store again.
    Greg,
    Good work.

    Since it is not a violation to walk past a sign it might be worth considering that while one is at the business already just go in to ask for the manager. One might ask for information, clarification of the policy and then let management know, if they care, that you will not bother them with you business. We aren't violating the ban until they request we leave and you'd think they'd want to try to keep a customer. Who knows, maybe they would make an exception or do even better and we can get our message out directly on the spot. Just a thought.
    Get a DVR, a Digital Voice Recorder, carry it 24/7. It's cheap, easy and makes a good witness in Court.

    Triangle Open Carry Meetup
    http://www.meetup.com/r/inbound/0/0/...ry/?a=sharetxt
    This is a link for a "gunz r welcome" sign.
    http://www.gunlaws.com/images/unity.gif
    FORUM RULES (14)
    ....This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EricDailey X-NRA View Post
    Greg,
    Good work.

    Since it is not a violation to walk past a sign it might be worth considering that while one is at the business already just go in to ask for the manager. One might ask for information, clarification of the policy and then let management know, if they care, that you will not bother them with you business. We aren't violating the ban until they request we leave and you'd think they'd want to try to keep a customer. Who knows, maybe they would make an exception or do even better and we can get our message out directly on the spot. Just a thought.
    If you knowingly walk past a notice which forbids you entry to a property, you are guilty of the offense of second degree tresspass.
    (NCGS Chapter 14 Article 22B sec. 14-159.13(2))
    Last edited by USNRCorpsman; 05-30-2011 at 07:58 AM.

  13. #13
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    Intruders?

    Quote Originally Posted by USNRCorpsman View Post
    If you knowingly walk past a notice which forbids you entry to a property, you are guilty of the offense of second degree tresspass.
    (NCGS Chapter 14 Article 22B sec. 14-159.13(2))
    Thanks for the heads up. Reading statutes is always confusing to me so I won't claim to know the exact application. Others must weigh in on this issue.

    § 14-159.13. Second degree trespass....

    (2) That are posted, in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, with notice not to enter the premises.

    Do you believe this applies to members of the public walking into a place of business to request contact with the management to get information about the property owners rules? You may be correct, but I do not believe that. I will check for a definition in the law for "intruders".
    Get a DVR, a Digital Voice Recorder, carry it 24/7. It's cheap, easy and makes a good witness in Court.

    Triangle Open Carry Meetup
    http://www.meetup.com/r/inbound/0/0/...ry/?a=sharetxt
    This is a link for a "gunz r welcome" sign.
    http://www.gunlaws.com/images/unity.gif
    FORUM RULES (14)
    ....This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

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    Regular Member WTFOVER's Avatar
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    Just goes to show you that people don't care about loosing the business. They will gain another customer to replace the one that is lost.

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    Guitar Center

    I just left Guitar Center, which is where I thought i would be doing my music shopping from here on out. Well there is a big sign in the window now, saying ALL weapons are prohibited. I KNEW it wasn't there last time I went there, so I asked the guy how long it has been up and he said about a couple months. I asked why they changed their policy, he said he didnt know and that it was a Corporate decision. So I asked again just to be sure, are you sure this is a corporate policy and not a store policy, and he said yes.

    Looks like there is nowhere gun friendly, much less OC friendly, to buy musical merchandise now. Im up for firing off a round of letters, does anyone know how to contact their corporate office?
    "I believe that a person's moral compass can be determined by how he references free men the right to defend themselves." - Ted Nugent

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  17. #17
    mattwestm
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    Burrage Music in Raleigh on Green Rd. is a good place. I used to go there a lot in high school when I was in a band. I haven't been in ages, but they sell sheet music and repair instruments. Might want to call ahead to see if they work on guitars. Their prices are higher than Mars Music (closed, now Sam Ash) was, but they are a local family run business, so I'd rather support them.

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    Regular Member CDT COX's Avatar
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    there is a nice guitar shop at glenwood ave and peace st

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    Quote Originally Posted by EricDailey X-NRA View Post
    Thanks for the heads up. Reading statutes is always confusing to me so I won't claim to know the exact application. Others must weigh in on this issue.

    § 14-159.13. Second degree trespass....

    (2) That are posted, in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, with notice not to enter the premises.

    Do you believe this applies to members of the public walking into a place of business to request contact with the management to get information about the property owners rules? You may be correct, but I do not believe that. I will check for a definition in the law for "intruders".

    In the law (criminal, property, and tort), when any person enters a property who is not the possessor(owner or one in authority to control), they do so in one of three statuses; as a licensee, as an invitee, or as a tresspasser.
    In the case of a retail store, the possessor decides under what conditions (or scope of permission) he or she will allow the public to enter their property. When you, as patron, enter the property having complied with the conditions, you become a "business invitee". With that, the possessor accepts the duty to keep you from harm (inspecting the property for hazzards and advising you of any that exist, rescuing you should some mishap befall you, &c.).
    If you enter a property NOT in compliance, you do so without permission. Your status is tresspasser. As a tresspasser, you meet the definition (both legal and otherwise) of intruder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by condeist View Post
    I just left Guitar Center, which is where I thought i would be doing my music shopping from here on out. Well there is a big sign in the window now, saying ALL weapons are prohibited. I KNEW it wasn't there last time I went there, so I asked the guy how long it has been up and he said about a couple months. I asked why they changed their policy, he said he didnt know and that it was a Corporate decision. So I asked again just to be sure, are you sure this is a corporate policy and not a store policy, and he said yes.

    Looks like there is nowhere gun friendly, much less OC friendly, to buy musical merchandise now. Im up for firing off a round of letters, does anyone know how to contact their corporate office?
    Dang it. The friendorfoe.us sight needs to be updated then.

  21. #21
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    lol

    Methinks Mr Sam Ash Music let Mr Guitar Center know about the letters he's been getting and Mr Guitar Center put them signs up to avoid having to deal with a perceived flood of gun owners visiting his store. The timing is just a little too convenient.

    Anyway, it's clear Sam Ash Music could care less whether or not you go there, and also could care less if you go somewhere else.

    I smell an opportunity if one would be inclined to open up a guns/ guitars store in the area...

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    I'm not surprised with the replies Sam Ash has been giving you guys. I used to work for a company that insured checks for Sam Ash. Whenever anyone would decline someone's check, there is an expected attitude from the merchant and customer.

    Sam Ash would give us an attitude for days sending their complaint about me up the ladder to their boss's boss's boss. I know for a fact Paul got wind of me one weekend where a store manager called me back multiple times calling me every name in the book. When I told him I had no problem hanging up on him if all he was going to do was try and hurt my feelings he went through the roof! He swore I would be fired.

    I wasn't.

  23. #23
    Regular Member EricDailey X-NRA's Avatar
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    I See What You Did There

    Quote Originally Posted by USNRCorpsman View Post
    In the law (criminal, property, and tort), when any person enters a property who is not the possessor(owner or one in authority to control), they do so in one of three statuses; as a licensee, as an invitee, or as a tresspasser.
    In the case of a retail store, the possessor decides under what conditions (or scope of permission) he or she will allow the public to enter their property. When you, as patron, enter the property having complied with the conditions, you become a "business invitee". With that, the possessor accepts the duty to keep you from harm (inspecting the property for hazzards and advising you of any that exist, rescuing you should some mishap befall you, &c.).
    If you enter a property NOT in compliance, you do so without permission. Your status is trespasser. As a trespasser, you meet the definition (both legal and otherwise) of intruder.
    Thanks for all this background. You give a very global explanation. I think this is an important point. I would never bet my freedom that I clearly understand the information you give but it's likely most others on OCDO do follow it clearly.
    It seems that you are convinced that walking past a sign is sufficient to make one an intruder. Is it possible to find a citation that points out specifically by the letter of the law that this is so? I think the legal definition is what is needed and any definition otherwise would not apply. So, is intruder defined in the statutes? I failed to find it there. If the statute does not define intruder then what would be the default definition. Again, thank you for this reasoned explanation.
    Get a DVR, a Digital Voice Recorder, carry it 24/7. It's cheap, easy and makes a good witness in Court.

    Triangle Open Carry Meetup
    http://www.meetup.com/r/inbound/0/0/...ry/?a=sharetxt
    This is a link for a "gunz r welcome" sign.
    http://www.gunlaws.com/images/unity.gif
    FORUM RULES (14)
    ....This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EricDailey X-NRA View Post
    Thanks for all this background. You give a very global explanation. I think this is an important point. I would never bet my freedom that I clearly understand the information you give but it's likely most others on OCDO do follow it clearly.
    It seems that you are convinced that walking past a sign is sufficient to make one an intruder. Is it possible to find a citation that points out specifically by the letter of the law that this is so? I think the legal definition is what is needed and any definition otherwise would not apply. So, is intruder defined in the statutes? I failed to find it there. If the statute does not define intruder then what would be the default definition. Again, thank you for this reasoned explanation.
    Hi Eric,
    I'm sorry that I don't have a citation for you. My domestic partner is a student at Charlotte Law School and he explained it to me. You might look up "tresspasser" in Black's or possibly wikipedia. (Black's would be better.)

  25. #25
    Regular Member EricDailey X-NRA's Avatar
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    Definition

    Quote Originally Posted by USNRCorpsman View Post
    Hi Eric,
    I'm sorry that I don't have a citation for you. My domestic partner is a student at Charlotte Law School and he explained it to me. You might look up "tresspasser" in Black's or possibly wikipedia. (Black's would be better.)
    I think I can rely on the statute, which you see addresses itself to intruders. If you hear someone say otherwise please let us know. I am of the opinion still, that walking past a sign is no violation. I hope to be corrected if I am mistaken. Chances are I'll will be corrected on OCDO or on some property with a sign. I will avoid intruding in any case.
    Get a DVR, a Digital Voice Recorder, carry it 24/7. It's cheap, easy and makes a good witness in Court.

    Triangle Open Carry Meetup
    http://www.meetup.com/r/inbound/0/0/...ry/?a=sharetxt
    This is a link for a "gunz r welcome" sign.
    http://www.gunlaws.com/images/unity.gif
    FORUM RULES (14)
    ....This web site is focused on the right to openly carry properly holstered handguns in daily American life.

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