• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

in the car carry on army corps run parks??

boomer92266

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
200
Location
Gamaliel, Kentucky, United States
i just found out that barren river state park is run by the army corps of engineers, they have posted no firearms signs through out the park. my question is can i go to the park and keep my gun in my car?, or can they restrict me from carrying in my car on park property? a friend of mine has said if my car is on park property they can, but i think my car is my property. thanks for any help.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
The quick answer is in 36 CFR 327.13.
327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.
(b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.


First question: how are they going to know?

CoE rules only prohibit loaded guns, so that's easy enough to work around. And soon, hopefully, this will be moot, since H.R. 1865 seeks to force the CoE to recognize gun rights just like the National Park Service now has to.
 

UnfetteredMight

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
222
Location
Kentucky
The quick answer is in 36 CFR 327.13.



First question: how are they going to know?

CoE rules only prohibit loaded guns, so that's easy enough to work around. And soon, hopefully, this will be moot, since H.R. 1865 seeks to force the CoE to recognize gun rights just like the National Park Service now has to.

Technically, that law makes a distinction for ammunition, so you would still be in violation even if you kept the ammunition out of the gun. Had they ommited that, you would have your loophole.

However I didnt know about that bill, will have to keep on eye on it.
 

Brian D.

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
937
Location
Cincy area, Ohio, USA
The Army CoE has always "come strong to the microphone" with their regulations, but they would for the most part have to depend on the help of REAL law enforcement agencies to protect their dams and such from vandalism/terrorism. Most all of them are in remote areas and the first responders would likely be county or state police, in most state parks that's certainly the case.

Personally I see the CoE signs and shake my head, but play along by staying off their dams proper whilst carrying my legally toted gun. And I further cooperate by not leaving charges of high explosives in or on the dams either... ;)
 
Last edited:

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
i just found out that barren river state park is run by the army corps of engineers, they have posted no firearms signs through out the park. my question is can i go to the park and keep my gun in my car?, or can they restrict me from carrying in my car on park property? a friend of mine has said if my car is on park property they can, but i think my car is my property. thanks for any help.

This is a state park owned and operated by the Commonwealth of Kentucky. The Corps of Engineers have no juridictional rights to the state property. The dam is owned an operated by the US Government and Corps of Engineers. They have descretion on carry there, but no where on state property. Just because a sign is posted doesnt give it the weight of enforcement. I carry at the state parks on Cumberland Lake and Dale Hollow. No problems ever.
 

UnfetteredMight

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
222
Location
Kentucky
This is a state park owned and operated by the Commonwealth of Kentucky. The Corps of Engineers have no juridictional rights to the state property. The dam is owned an operated by the US Government and Corps of Engineers. They have descretion on carry there, but no where on state property. Just because a sign is posted doesnt give it the weight of enforcement. I carry at the state parks on Cumberland Lake and Dale Hollow. No problems ever.

What court precedence are you basing this on? The ACoE is responsible for the care of many lakes and waterways, federal funding goes into this upkeep and as such they claim jurisdiction. I have family at Nolin and I can promise you the ACoE controls more than just the dam, they control the whole lake and even so far up the banks to what is referred to as the "red line".

Just because youve had no problems does not mean the potential for one does not exist. Even if youve come across LE, that still means nothing. A LEO can choose to not enforce a law just as well as they can try to pretend one exists.

Follow this advice at your own peril.
 

neuroblades

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
1,240
Location
, Kentucky, USA
Paintsville Lake/Dam & Dewey Lake/Dam

Locally we have 2 lakes; Paintsville Lake & Dewey Lake, both with their respective Dams. These two lakes though within about 15 miles of one another are 2 totally different beasts.

Just outside of Paintsville, you encounter the Paintsville Dam first and it has the typical ACoE signage of NO ALCOHOL & NO FIREARMS! You have to travel through this area to reach Paintsville Lake. To be quite honest Paintsville Lake really has little to offer people as it's primarily a lake for fishing, RV & tent camping, and home to The Kentucky Homeplace; a step back in time to the 1800's.

Just outside of Prestonsburg, you encounter the Dewey Lake & Dewey Dam. As with all Kentucky Dams that I have yet to encounter, this one is likewise sporting the typical ACoE signage as you enter the road down into the spillway. Luckily, the whole of Dewey Lake is NOT sporting the ACoE signage! :)

Due to these facts, I rarely bother with Painstville Lake being that it's covered by the repressive policies of ACoE and the fact that if you're going out to a lake, Paintsville's is extremely limited as opposed to Dewey Lake which has a nice road around it which makes for a nice weekend drive and many picnic spots to stop and enjoy a nice sunny picnic. Plus Dewey Lake doesn't have those nasty signs. *LOL*
 
Last edited:

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
What court precedence are you basing this on? The ACoE is responsible for the care of many lakes and waterways, federal funding goes into this upkeep and as such they claim jurisdiction. I have family at Nolin and I can promise you the ACoE controls more than just the dam, they control the whole lake and even so far up the banks to what is referred to as the "red line".

Just because youve had no problems does not mean the potential for one does not exist. Even if youve come across LE, that still means nothing. A LEO can choose to not enforce a law just as well as they can try to pretend one exists.

Follow this advice at your own peril.

Tell me, who is going to enforce the law? You are writing about Nolin, in Tennessee and we are talking about state parks in Kentucky. There is much difference.
 

UnfetteredMight

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
222
Location
Kentucky
Tell me, who is going to enforce the law? You are writing about Nolin, in Tennessee and we are talking about state parks in Kentucky. There is much difference.

You know, I dont really know. Coast guard patrols our waterways along with conservation officers. Do the conservation officers work for the state or the ACoE? If for the state, are they required to follow federal law? I cant answer that and I doubt you can either.

But one things for sure, I enjoy my 2A and im not going to risk a criminal charge on federal land taking that away. Be my guest if you want to be the test case.

Nolin is in Kentucky, Upton exit off I65, down Dixie hwy a bit, right on 728 and then east for aways. My mother lives there, I know which state its in.
 

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
You know, I dont really know. Coast guard patrols our waterways along with conservation officers. Do the conservation officers work for the state or the ACoE? If for the state, are they required to follow federal law? I cant answer that and I doubt you can either.

But one things for sure, I enjoy my 2A and im not going to risk a criminal charge on federal land taking that away. Be my guest if you want to be the test case.

Nolin is in Kentucky, Upton exit off I65, down Dixie hwy a bit, right on 728 and then east for aways. My mother lives there, I know which state its in.

I misunderstood which lake, sorry. Nolin Reservoir or Nolin River Lake was impounded by the Corps. The Commonwealth maintains the lake and the state park. Fish and Wildlife maintain law enforcement and have no federal arrest powers. I can not find any arrest or conviction for carrying on Corps of Engineers property. Call Frankfort and talk to Fish and Wildlife, they will tell you they have no arrest powers. And yes I can answer that, unless sworn to a federal agency (DEA, ATF, FBI, HSI) a state leo has no federal arrest powers. And I am not going to be frightened by a regulation adopted by the Army Corps of Engineers. That being said, I would not encroach on the dam or buildings owned by the Corps. I carry every weekend at Lake Cumberland or Laurel Lake or Dale Hollow and have since 1996. The fear of being charged is unfounded.
 

UnfetteredMight

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
222
Location
Kentucky
I misunderstood which lake, sorry. Nolin Reservoir or Nolin River Lake was impounded by the Corps. The Commonwealth maintains the lake and the state park. Fish and Wildlife maintain law enforcement and have no federal arrest powers. I can not find any arrest or conviction for carrying on Corps of Engineers property. Call Frankfort and talk to Fish and Wildlife, they will tell you they have no arrest powers. And yes I can answer that, unless sworn to a federal agency (DEA, ATF, FBI, HSI) a state leo has no federal arrest powers. And I am not going to be frightened by a regulation adopted by the Army Corps of Engineers. That being said, I would not encroach on the dam or buildings owned by the Corps. I carry every weekend at Lake Cumberland or Laurel Lake or Dale Hollow and have since 1996. The fear of being charged is unfounded.

No sweat. So how many times have you encountered LE outside of the buildings actually owed by ACoE?
 

hotrod

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
569
Location
Union, Kentucky, USA
No sweat. So how many times have you encountered LE outside of the buildings actually owed by ACoE?

Over the years, maybe 4 or 5 times. There are not that many working the lakes. Mostly, if I'm at the dock and not out in the water I may have an occassion to cross paths while carrying.
 

Ford

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
17
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
I was under the impression that Barren River Lake SP is not run by the ACoE. I have carried there several times, each time CC, and never seen a sign. Never saw anything written to suggest that it was run by the anyone but the state.

Certainly the dam is a different matter. They have firearms laws in effect, and my understanding is that the new law won't change anything about the dams. I personally think they should just make a law against blowing up dams if thats what they're so worried about. Maybe add in one about not shooting people for good measure.:cuss::cuss::cuss:
 

Ford

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2010
Messages
17
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
The campground might be run by the ACoE.

From the FAQ on Barren River Lake State Resort Parks website:

Question: Who is in charge of Kentucky State Parks?

Our parks are managed by the Kentucky Department of Parks, an agency of the Tourism, Arts and Heritage Cabinet. The head of the department is Commissioner Gerry van der Meer.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,886
Location
Granite State of Mind
Many state parks throughout the country are on ACOE land, and ACOE rules apply no matter what state law says. (I know it's not right, but that's how it is.)
 
Top