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Thread: I Had an Encounter while OCing the hoover Dam bypass bridge memorial park.

  1. #1
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    I Had an Encounter while OCing the hoover Dam bypass bridge memorial park.

    I had a nice lunch in boulder City with a friend, as we were getting on the motorcycle to leave, I asked her if she had ever walked on the new "big bridge" she had not, so we went. I had been before and OC'ed with no problems. so I did not expect issues.

    When we arrived things seemed normal, I did notice that the "checkpoint dudes" were not rent a cops (wackenhut) any longer. we parked the bike walked up the trail to the bridge and over the george, we took pics etc and headed back.

    As we zig zaged down the trail, I noticed a officer (female) who was acting (too much) like she had no agenda, she waited for us to get close, and she approached, I engaged my recording device. (this post is from memory)

    Her: "Sir you can't have that here, I need you to cover it with your shirt, and take it to your car."

    Me: wouldn't that be illegal?

    We went back and forth a little, while I assured her that I was trying to abide by the law and NPS land was a go.

    She said she would get me straightend out, and show me the regs, we walked over to her patrol unit, (parked in a handicapped spot) and she pulled out her "brown book) the cheater manual for the regs.

    The other Officer, was spouting no guns on federal land, and some other nonsense, so I did not engage him too much. I did hear him say that you are legal up there (on the new bridge) but not down here, I have started my research into this and it appears that reclamation can ban weapons on their land, but is this Mike O' callaghan Pat Tillman memorial visitor center, run or maintained by the Bureau of reclamation.

    Any thing in Italics came out of the Code of federal Regulations:

    423.30 Weapons, firearms, explosives, and fireworks.

    (a) You may possess firearms, ammunition, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other projectile firing devices on Reclamation lands and waterbodies, provided the firearm, ammunition, or other projectile firing device is stowed, transported, and/or carried in compliance with applicable Federal, State, and local law, with the following exceptions:
    (1) You must not have a weapon in your possession when at or in a Reclamation facility.
    (2) You must comply with any prohibitions or regulations applicable to weapons in a special use area established by an authorized official under subpart E of this part 423.
    (b) You must not discharge or shoot a weapon unless you are:
    (1) Using a firearm or other projectile firing device lawfully for hunting or fishing as allowed under 423.32, or at an authorized shooting or archery range; and
    (2) In compliance with applicable Federal, State, and local law.
    (c) You must not use or possess explosives, or fireworks or pyrotechnics of any type, except as allowed by a permit issued pursuant to subpart D of this part 423, or in special use areas so designated by an authorized official under subpart E of this part 423.


    So I looked up the definitions also from the CFR's:

    Reclamation lands means any real property under the jurisdiction of or administered by Reclamation, and includes, but is not limited to, all acquired and withdrawn lands and lands in which Reclamation has a lease interest, easement, or right-of-way.

    Firearm means a device that expels a projectile such as a bullet, dart, or pellet by combustion, air pressure, gas pressure, or other means.

    Reclamation facilities, lands, and waterbodies means Reclamation facilities, Reclamation lands, and Reclamation waterbodies.

    State and local laws means the laws, statutes, regulations, ordinances, codes, and court decisions of a State and of the counties, municipalities, or other governmental entities which are enabled by statute and vested with legislative authority.
    Weapon means a firearm or any other instrument or substance designed, used, or which can be used to cause or threaten to cause pain, injury, or death.


    So it looks to be A no go and that I dodged a bullet (pun intended) I will have the recordin posted on Guerrilla Lawfare forum only because I dont know how to do it on here.

    I also came accross this little cheat sheet I am trying to link it.

    http://www.usbr.gov/lc/hooverdam/crossingguide.pdf

  2. #2
    Regular Member Sabotage70's Avatar
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    That's great that they let you off with a warning.
    EDC=XDm40 16+1+16+16

    RED DRAGONS!!!!

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I'm so glad deadly deranged terrorists like you get warnings... [/sarcasm]
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

  4. #4
    28kfps
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    The Bureau of Reclamation (Reclamation) projects are located in the 17 Western United States of North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah, Arizona, California, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington.
    Established in 1902, the Bureau of Reclamation is best known for the dams, powerplants, and canals it constructed in the 17 western states. These water projects led to homesteading and promoted the economic development of the West. Reclamation has constructed more than 600 dams and reservoirs including Hoover Dam on the Colorado River and Grand Coulee on the Columbia River.
    I guess they really do not want to make it easy for a person to keep up with the gun laws. When the national parks gun laws were changed to be inline with the state laws who would have thought the Bureau of Reclamation would be an issue. I have been wanting to make a trip to the bridge and walk across and wondering about open carry. Thanks for the info glad they let you go.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 05-22-2011 at 11:55 PM.

  5. #5
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    It seems in part A it is ok then in sub heading 1 it looks like it retracts part A???

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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post
    I also came accross this little cheat sheet I am trying to link it.

    http://www.usbr.gov/lc/hooverdam/crossingguide.pdf


    Now in this it only says buildings of the reclamation are off limits. Did you have to go through a building?

    Also how can they do a car search like that without a warrant?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegassteve View Post
    Now in this it only says buildings of the reclamation are off limits. Did you have to go through a building?

    Also how can they do a car search like that without a warrant?
    If you read carefully, the section of code he provided agrees with the cheat sheet. (a) says it's ok to have the gun while on the lands and water bodies, and (1) prohibits while in the buildings.

    And the car searches are supposedly "by consent", but that means they'll turn you around if you refuse, at least in theory.

  8. #8
    28kfps
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    Can I carry weapons in my vehicle across Hoover Dam?
    Yes, as long as their transport complies with state and federal standards, i.e. guns must be unloaded and
    in compliance with concealment laws. Also, no more than 1000 rounds of ammunition may be
    transported across the dam. Weapons are not permitted in any Bureau of Reclamation facility.

    (1)You must not have a weapon in your possession when at or in a Reclamation facility.

    I guess it is ok in the vehicle however, not on the person. It appears a Reclamation Facility is not a public or private facility.
    If you do have a gun, it must comply with state and federal standards however the Reclamation facility are not required to comply with state and federal standards and apparently allowed to apply their own standards.
    Last edited by 28kfps; 05-23-2011 at 01:18 AM.

  9. #9
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    Now that I had a couple of beers and am looking at it again, I would by defenition believe that I was on reclamation "lands" an not in or on a facility, such as the Dam, generating station, parking structure etc. I need to go back to the CFR's and find Facility defined...... this could be a little land grab for OCing. I think anakinskid inspired me.

    For the record I attempted to upload the audio, and it failed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DON`T TREAD ON ME View Post

    For the record I attempted to upload the audio, and it failed.

    What format is it in? MP3 or QT should work for you. Maybe the file is to large. Try to encode it at a lower rate.

  11. #11
    Regular Member The Big Guy's Avatar
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    When I drove accross the damn last summer from AZ into Nevada the Federal Officer asked me if I would stow my gun when next I approach the checkpoint but indicated there was no law. The only thing he was really concerned about was whether I had more than a thousand rounds on me. He checked my trailer for nukes and such and bid me to have a nice day.

    TBG

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    I have been looking for a legal definition of "FACILITY" as it appears that is where firearms are not allowed on reclamation property, I found this in the EPA website, (related?) and it is interesting.

    (9) The term "facility" means (A) any building, structure, installation, equipment, pipe or pipeline (including any pipe into a sewer or publicly owned treatment works), well, pit, pond, lagoon, impoundment, ditch, landfill, storage container, motor vehicle, rolling stock, or aircraft, or (B) any site or area where a hazardous substance has been deposited, stored, disposed of, or placed, or otherwise come to be located; but does not include any consumer product in consumer use or any vessel.

    Source: http://www.epa.gov/superfund/program...ercla/9601.htm

    So it appears to be all inclusive until the public gets involved, this could be a positive sign.
    Last edited by DON`T TREAD ON ME; 05-24-2011 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Cite source

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    Sounds like the pending Corps of Engineers bill needs to be modified to include Reclamation and BLM.

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    And...

    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    Sounds like the pending Corps of Engineers bill needs to be modified to include Reclamation and BLM.
    and TVA, and Forest Service, and Susquehanna River Basin Commission, and Delaware River Basin Commission, and Postal Service, and Indian Tribes, and.... well, you get the point...

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    Anyone have a cite for the law/code of why only 1,000 rounds?

    sorry if I have missed it posted elsewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lostlittlerobot View Post
    Anyone have a cite for the law/code of why only 1,000 rounds?

    sorry if I have missed it posted elsewhere.
    http://www.usbr.gov/lc/hooverdam/crossingguide.pdf
    I do believe I've seen a US code for it someplace, though I'm having difficulty relocating it now. I believe it was created when the Department of Homeland Security was created etc. I'll continue to look.

    EDIT: No luck... Perhaps I hallucinated finding it, I dunno. I did find one of the old posts here about it however. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...the-Hoover-Dam
    Last edited by gmijackso; 05-28-2011 at 03:07 AM.

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