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Thread: Kirkland - Man attacked by pit bulls, shoots one of them in self defense

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    Kirkland - Man attacked by pit bulls, shoots one of them in self defense

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/122396329.html

    A leisurely Saturday afternoon in the park quickly mutated into a real-life horror scene when three pit bulls attacked a man and his German shepherd without warning, police said.

    During the unprovoked attack, the man pulled out his concealed weapon and opened fire, hitting one of the pit bulls and scaring off the others.


    Note - watching the video, he has a CPL badge *facepalm*

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    There was no need to shoot these dogs! They were good dogs. Just misunderstood and are trying to turn their lives around!

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    I take note that this happened in a park. In NC we are currently not allowed to OC or CC in parks. Hopefully new legislation making it's way through the State sausage machine will soon change that.
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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajadudes View Post
    I take note that this happened in a park. In NC we are currently not allowed to OC or CC in parks. Hopefully new legislation making it's way through the State sausage machine will soon change that.
    ... and just how long ago was it the fools in Seattle were trying to (unlawfully) ban park carry? Since no one needs a gun in a park after all.

    Caught this on the news the other night and I was slightly impressed by their coverage, they said the guy "had to pull out his gun and shoot the attacking dog." Had to, as if acknowledging it was a measure of last resort, and unavoidable.
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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    He has no injuries, and his dog doesn't seem too beat up.

    Hmm....


    I'm on the fence on this one...

    The 'badge' makes it seem like he was looking for a reason to use his gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    He has no injuries, and his dog doesn't seem too beat up.

    Hmm....


    I'm on the fence on this one...

    The 'badge' makes it seem like he was looking for a reason to use his gun.
    Having been attacked by 2 pit bulls I can say he was well within his rightful duty to shoot. Do not critisize his actions until you have been there.

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    In self-defense: Kirkland pit bull incident probably a ‘good shoot’

    The weekend shooting of an aggressive pit bull at a Kirkland park appears to fall well within the guidelines of self-defense under this state’s statutes, and the incident has ignited a furious debate about dangerous dogs.
    The case, according to Alan Gottlieb, executive vice president of the Second Amendment Foundation in Bellevue, underscores why his organization fought to nullify Seattle’s illegal parks gun ban.

    http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...y-a-good-shoot

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    Regular Member Squeak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    He has no injuries, and his dog doesn't seem too beat up.

    Hmm....


    I'm on the fence on this one...

    The 'badge' makes it seem like he was looking for a reason to use his gun.
    Did you hear what the witness said? We had a PB attack one of my dogs as she was sitting on my lap! I was very close to shooting the mutt! The only reason I didn't was because there were 5 people sitting very close to each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoWeenie View Post
    He has no injuries,

    I'm on the fence on this one...

    .
    He has no injuries, because he shot the dog, are you suggesting that he should have let the dog bite him first..before shooting the dog?

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
    Did you hear what the witness said? We had a PB attack one of my dogs as she was sitting on my lap! I was very close to shooting the mutt! The only reason I didn't was because there were 5 people sitting very close to each other.
    In those "Family Setting (or sitting) type environments" a can of OC spray can be real handy. I've seen dogs go into reverse so fast they tear up the sod and push it in front of them when getting sprayed in the snoot. Really effective if they happen to take a big breath between barks. Just remember to save a couple of "squirts" for the owner of the dog should they take exception to your "macing poor Daisy" and want to take a swing at you.
    Last edited by amlevin; 05-23-2011 at 05:25 PM.
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    Regular Member Squeak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    In those "Family Setting (or sitting) type environments" a can of OC spray can be real handy. I've seen dogs go into reverse so fast they tear up the sod and push it in front of them when getting sprayed in the snoot. Really effective if they happen to take a big breath between barks. Just remember to save a couple of "squirts" for the owner of the dog should they take exception to your "macing poor Daisy" and want to take a swing at you.
    Just to state the stupidity of some dog owners, the owner had a shock collar on her dog ( which is why I allowed the PB to even get close) but didn't have any batteries in it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    In those "Family Setting (or sitting) type environments" a can of OC spray can be real handy. I've seen dogs go into reverse so fast they tear up the sod and push it in front of them when getting sprayed in the snoot. Really effective if they happen to take a big breath between barks. Just remember to save a couple of "squirts" for the owner of the dog should they take exception to your "macing poor Daisy" and want to take a swing at you.
    How quickly can you deploy and fire your OC spray and how accurate are you with it? Also, if it does not have the desired effect, what do you do then? There's no time to put down the spray and get your HG drawn.

    If a dog really wants to attack and bite you, I don't think there's time for non-lethal methods unless you have a special carry rig and you practice a lot on the exact threat.

    You don't know how big these three dogs were. How can you OC spray three dogs? It's impossible. OTOH, a HG makes a loud noise and will slow down the attack, enabling you to attempt an escape, ISTM. I would not blame ANYONE for using a HG on a huge dog, especially a breed known to be dangerous, despite what the owner says about his 'puppy' who just wanted to play.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    How quickly can you deploy and fire your OC spray and how accurate are you with it? Also, if it does not have the desired effect, what do you do then? There's no time to put down the spray and get your HG drawn.

    If a dog really wants to attack and bite you, I don't think there's time for non-lethal methods unless you have a special carry rig and you practice a lot on the exact threat.

    You don't know how big these three dogs were. How can you OC spray three dogs? It's impossible. OTOH, a HG makes a loud noise and will slow down the attack, enabling you to attempt an escape, ISTM. I would not blame ANYONE for using a HG on a huge dog, especially a breed known to be dangerous, despite what the owner says about his 'puppy' who just wanted to play.

    I was referring to Squeak's post where the danger of shooting Grandma and here three sisters was too great (or whoever the others sitting close together were).


    As for your opening comment, what makes you think I have only one hand. I've always trained with OC in my LEFT hand. Makes it possible, should I choose, to draw my pistol at the same time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    How quickly can you deploy and fire your OC spray and how accurate are you with it? Also, if it does not have the desired effect, what do you do then? There's no time to put down the spray and get your HG drawn.

    If a dog really wants to attack and bite you, I don't think there's time for non-lethal methods unless you have a special carry rig and you practice a lot on the exact threat.

    You don't know how big these three dogs were. How can you OC spray three dogs? It's impossible. OTOH, a HG makes a loud noise and will slow down the attack, enabling you to attempt an escape, ISTM. I would not blame ANYONE for using a HG on a huge dog, especially a breed known to be dangerous, despite what the owner says about his 'puppy' who just wanted to play.
    IMHO the same logic can be applied when defending from an attacking human. Say, a much smaller man (or woman) is about to be assaulted by a much larger, but unarmed man. Now, I am not a small guy, but I also don't want to take a risk and have a hand to hand fight in an uncontrolled environment. My first line of defense against an unarmed assailant would be my O.C. spray. Also, O.C. spray comes in various types of sprain, ranging from direct stream, mist, fog, cone, and a few others. They specifically design them differently, for different types of situations. One situation being multiple attackers.
    Last edited by Aaron1124; 05-23-2011 at 06:19 PM.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
    He has no injuries, because he shot the dog, are you suggesting that he should have let the dog bite him first..before shooting the dog?
    (Sarcasm on)
    Isnt that the way it works for us. Arent we supposed to be able to prove our life has been threatened, with life threatening injuries. Isnt there a standard measurement of blood loss that we are supposed to go by before we can defend ourselves with a firearm? I dont think we are allowed to prevent an attack, we are only allowed to stop one after it has started.
    (Sarcasm off)

    BTW, where are people getting these badges? I would think a badge could be construed as impersonating something....???
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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post

    BTW, where are people getting these badges? I would think a badge could be construed as impersonating something....???
    You can order them from the Internet. Lots of sources. They're legal as as far as I know. As for "impersonating something", the first thing that comes to my mind is they are impersonating "smart".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    You can order them from the Internet. Lots of sources. They're legal as as far as I know. As for "impersonating something", the first thing that comes to my mind is they are impersonating "smart".
    Yes... You're trying to carry "concealed" yet you're advertising that you're armed...

    Perhaps an open carry badge would be slightly less douchy?

    Then again, maybe not...


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    I've seen a few at the WAC gunshows. I know one in particular, if you'd like me to introduce you or pick one up for you...
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    Kirkland code

    Kirkland still officially bans firearms from parks; despite state preemption. A code rewrite goes before their Public Safety Subcommittee next month, followed by the full council in July. Thankfully Kirkland Police have been informed to follow state law until further notice.

    It will be interesting to see if this incident is raised at the committee hearing.
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    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
    He has no injuries, because he shot the dog, are you suggesting that he should have let the dog bite him first..before shooting the dog?
    Clearly, as the dog was getting it's life together. Straight A's in school, was looking for a job, and trying to start a new life after getting in many fights when he was young.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    As for your opening comment, what makes you think I have only one hand. I've always trained with OC in my LEFT hand. Makes it possible, should I choose, to draw my pistol at the same time.
    Fair enough. Have you ever tried a live drill? Have your spray on you and at a random time your buddy yells 'dog at 4:00', and see how fast you can deploy and spray? If you can do it in 3 seconds, (roughly) including time to uncap the durn thing and point the opening, and you always have it on you, then OK. Of course OC spray cans don't have a sight so it takes longer to get a hit on the nose (meaning you have to be more accurate). With a HG a hit anywhere is going to slow the dog down, and you have more bullets available. An OC runs out in a few seconds, IIRC.

    But, again, what if you're down wind? To me, big dog (or three) is much more dangerous than a human, faster and more determined to sink teeth into you. I just don't think I'd want to play around. With a human there's such a big down side to shooting/killing I agree OC is a better option. You can out maneuver a human, but no way can you evade a dog (or three - impossible). Out of 10 trials, I'd guess you get bit 9 times and hit spray once. Too low odds for me.

    With spray seems like you're 'spray and pray'. Gun you shoot and you pretty much get results. Don't know how much you practice with your OC but I'd bet you practice more with your HG than your OC by far.

    In this case, three dogs is a pack and that makes behavior more unpredictable.

    Anyway, just sayin'...
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 05-23-2011 at 09:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    Kirkland still officially bans firearms from parks; despite state preemption. A code rewrite goes before their Public Safety Subcommittee next month, followed by the full council in July. Thankfully Kirkland Police have been informed to follow state law until further notice.

    It will be interesting to see if this incident is raised at the committee hearing.
    Kirkland police has also been advised to lick my beanbag after the incident I got charged with there. That doesn't mean they are going to follow as advised.

    From what I understand, Kirkland police are officially WAY over staffed. They story is that they had planned to annex a few areas and therefor staffed up new police to handle the job. Since the annexation hasn't gone smoothly, Kirland police are overstaffed and bored so they are doing things that city cops don't normally do -- like patrol 405. They also need to make up revenue to pay for those cops since they don't have taxes coming in from those areas they planned to annex. This creates the perfect **** storm. Police who are bored and need to justify their existence with fines are a dangerous combination for law-abiding citizens. Exercise extreme caution while carrying there.
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    OC and animals

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    How quickly can you deploy and fire your OC spray and how accurate are you with it? Also, if it does not have the desired effect, what do you do then? There's no time to put down the spray and get your HG drawn.

    How can you OC spray three dogs?
    "Bear spray detoured attacks in 92% of the reported cases in the State of Alaska whereas firearms detoured only 68%."
    http://northwestexplorerblog.blogspo...nst-bears.html

    This is a VERY interesting article. And, like using oc against a person, the preferred method would be to be ready to use the firearm if it fails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jddssc121 View Post
    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/122396329.html

    A leisurely Saturday afternoon in the park quickly mutated into a real-life horror scene when three pit bulls attacked a man and his German shepherd without warning, police said.
    During the unprovoked attack, the man pulled out his concealed weapon and opened fire, hitting one of the pit bulls and scaring off the others.
    Two irresponsible dog owners with their dogs off-leash (the article doesn't say this is an off-leash area, and if it is, I am sorry. I am not aware of a dog park there). They are both idiots and jerks! At least the person who unleashed a deadly weapon in the form of a pack of killer dogs gets to pay the vet bill.


    Quote Originally Posted by jddssc121 View Post
    Note - watching the video, he has a CPL badge *facepalm*
    He may have gotten that out afterwards to try and keep from getting shot...still silly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monroe View Post
    "Bear spray detoured attacks in 92% of the reported cases in the State of Alaska whereas firearms detoured only 68%."
    http://northwestexplorerblog.blogspo...nst-bears.html

    This is a VERY interesting article. And, like using oc against a person, the preferred method would be to be ready to use the firearm if it fails.
    Bear spray is very effective against.....bears. However, I like to travel light and carry as little as possible when out and about. Therefore I carry a firearm. I am not looking to 'detour' a bear attack. I am looking to end the attack.
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