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Thread: This can't be right.....

  1. #1
    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    Red face This can't be right.....

    Gun ownership is up but the national crime rate is down. AGAIN! But, but Jerri said there is no "causal" relationship between owning/carrying guns and crime rates dropping but there IS between owning/carrying guns and gun deaths. Have you been misleading us all this time Jerri (heavy sarcasm there)

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110523/...s/us_fbi_crime
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    My Castle Doctrine Law

    Don't wish ill upon your enemy......plan it.

  2. #2
    McX
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    the loosening of gun rights has had an effect nation wide. each state in turn re-examimining their laws, and adjusting them to aid the populace. dark places still exist, but there are those, even there, who illuminate for change. anti's spew lies, and therefor should be disregarded.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    Unpopular opinion time!

    I realize more guns less crime is a popular mantra around here, but it's about as meaningless a statistic as anything an anti would throw at me to support their standpoint.

    There are so many variables related to any given crime statistic that to attribute an increase or decrease in crime to firearm ownership or firearm carry... is a stretch.

    Whether or not said mantra is true, there are a myriad of more virtuous reasons why firearm ownership and firearm carry are a good thing. Starting with: it's my God given Right, so ____ off and leave me alone.

  4. #4
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    Did you notice the article gives all the credit to more aggresive law enforcement. No mention of civilian firearms.

  5. #5
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    Another message from Doug to me that I post as most meaningful and statisctical data.

    You might inform correspondent "Trip20" that More Guns, Less Crime is
    not a mantra, but is the title of arguably the most influential pro-gun
    economics book yet written. It is More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding
    Crime and Gun Control Laws (3rd, U. Chicago, 2010) by John R. Lott, Jr.
    The book is ~400 pages that are full of data and statistical
    conclusions.

    Lott blogs at http://johnrlott.blogspot.com and makes much of his
    research available here http://www.johnlott.org He is a pleasant
    correspondent.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Trip20's Avatar
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    You might inform "Doug" that Trip20 gives little credence to statistics as they relate to Second Amendment issues. Trip20 prefers to rely solely on the rectitude of the Second Amendment.

  7. #7
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDFDE45
    Jerri said there is no "causal" relationship between owning/carrying guns and crime rates dropping but there IS between owning/carrying guns and gun deaths.
    Well then, we need to look at the rate of gun deaths, both lawful (defense) & not (murder), and compare that with the rate of gun ownership.

    I'll give her that history shows for a year or so after a state allows concealed carry there are more defensive (lawful) shootings of criminals/attackers. But that drops off once the remaining thugs begin to understand their next victim could be their last.

    But the Brady Bunch, Joyce Foundation, & W"AV"E don't bother to separate out the lawful defensive shootings from the unlawful ones, or to look beyond the criminal mindset adjustment period, so they can "truthfully" say that there are more shootings when states allow carry, esp. concealed carry.

    TTBOMK, the rate of gun ownership keeps increasing, and the rate of unlawful shootings & other violent crime decreases.

    As far as the link between owning/carrying & "gun deaths" (guns can't die 'cause they weren't alive to begin with), if you don't have one you can't use it, so it's true that people who own/carry are much more likely to be involved in a shooting. But again, they don't distinguish between lawful & un-, so their stats are worthless.
    Last edited by MKEgal; 05-23-2011 at 09:59 PM.
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