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Thread: Guns and Traffic Stops

  1. #1
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    Guns and Traffic Stops

    In case you missed it...

    SANTA FE - The state Supreme Court has ruled that police can temporarily remove a visible gun from a car during a traffic stop even if they have no suspicion the occupants are dangerous.
    The justices said that ensuring the safety of law enforcement officers justifies removal of the gun from a vehicle.

    The court issued the unanimous ruling on Friday in a case involving a traffic stop in Hobbs in 2008. Police stopped a car that had an expired license plate and saw a handgun on the back seat floorboard. Police removed the gun and arrested the passenger in the car after determining that he owned the gun and had a felony conviction.

    The court said removing the gun did not violate constitutional rights against an unreasonable search and seizure.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Does it say 'visible gun'? What is the rule in NM on OC in a vehicle?

    In fact, is it, or is it not standard procedure for the LEO to remove a HG anytime they like. I can't imagine it needed to be 'law', and it seems odd that a person with a felony would be pushing this case all the way up to the SSC.

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    I can see both sides of the issue, however, I do not plan on telling LEO that I have a concealed weapon unless asked anymore. Before I would plan on showing my CCW and letting them know, but if they do not ask I am not going to have my handgun taken for any period of time. I wonder how much the term "visible" will be abused by some police.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snoball View Post
    I can see both sides of the issue, however, I do not plan on telling LEO that I have a concealed weapon unless asked anymore. Before I would plan on showing my CCW and letting them know, but if they do not ask I am not going to have my handgun taken for any period of time. I wonder how much the term "visible" will be abused by some police.
    Then if you do that in NM and the police find out you have a gun, your going to jail.
    Upon contact, NM has a state law requiring you to notify the officer if you have a gun.
    " I cant remember all the details, but that about sums it up".
    Myself, I have never had a negative experience with NM cops. I didnt even know I was suppose to tell them I have guns in the vehicle until one of their DPS guy's told me so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    Then if you do that in NM and the police find out you have a gun, your going to jail.
    Upon contact, NM has a state law requiring you to notify the officer if you have a gun.
    Wrong. You only have to notify if they specifically ask. Otherwise, you are not legally required to say anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
    Wrong. You only have to notify if they specifically ask. Otherwise, you are not legally required to say anything.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisNM View Post
    +1
    Got it, thanks guy's.
    But as far as removing the guns from the vehicle, " What a load of crap"...
    I can see that if the vehicle had several people in it and they didn't look like they were up to any good, but if im by myself as I normally am, just ask me to get out of the vehicle.
    I understand cops side of the subject and how they would be concerned for their own safety, but if im by myself, just ask me to step out of the vehilce.
    I never had a problem with Gun and Cops in NM, so I hope this doesn't change that. Actually I have had NM cops be pretty decent to me. One time, I ended up driving down the wrong side of the road in Carlsbad, right in front of the pizza hutt. The medium I thought I was suppose to use to turn in there had me facing on coming traffic. That traffic ended up to be a cop. Oops! I had to run over the curb to get out of the way. All the cop did was make sure I wasnt drunk and explained how the medium's are kind of deceiving. Not ticket or nothing. He said the drunks had a problem right there so he had to make sure I wasnt one of them.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoball View Post
    I can see both sides of the issue, however, I do not plan on telling LEO that I have a concealed weapon unless asked anymore. Before I would plan on showing my CCW and letting them know, but if they do not ask I am not going to have my handgun taken for any period of time. I wonder how much the term "visible" will be abused by some police.
    Some states have a "must notify" law - North Carolina is an example:

    § 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit..

    (a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer.


    While this statute does not address OC specifically, I would strongly suggest that if you are the subject of a traffic stop that you so advise the officer to avoid other complications while in NC.
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    In Oklahoma the law states that you only have to notify for traffic stops, detainments, and arrests. Though we don't have OC here.

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    Can I ask the cop to disarm for my safety? Yep one more "officer safety" ruling.

    I'm all for officers going home at night, but somewhere there has to be a happy medium, we all are Americans.


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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    Then if you do that in NM and the police find out you have a gun, your going to jail.
    Upon contact, NM has a state law requiring you to notify the officer if you have a gun.
    " I cant remember all the details, but that about sums it up".
    Myself, I have never had a negative experience with NM cops. I didnt even know I was suppose to tell them I have guns in the vehicle until one of their DPS guy's told me so.
    As many others pointed out, in NM you do not have to notify the officer that you are carrying concealed. Of course, if asked, I would answer honestly.

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    Seems like everytime I turn around, something changes with gun laws, to the point you better be a Ron Shapiro. And then, is that any good, as every LEO wants to interpret the law their own way.

    If gun laws continue to change, even carrying those guns laws with you, could become obsolete on a week to week basis.

    As I understand it, one has the right to conceal carry within your vehicle, your motorcycle, and even on a bicycle in NM, provided you are not a conviceted felon. And perhaps a 3 ft rule applies as well, that I can conceal carry while gassing up my vehicle in a gas station.

    Where the grey area is in my eyes, is what happens when asked, and "after" you inform the LEO that yes, you have a gun in the vehicle, and what legal rights you have "after"?

    That in the course of an alleged traffic violation, or at a DWI checkpoint what is proper procedure for LEO's? What can I expect?

    I imagine that anything they want to do then is fair game to them, such as temporarily detaining me, taking my gun, unloading it, running a background ID check, and running serial numbers of my gun. Oh, and showing proof of purchase, that if I don't have such, my gun gets confiscated wherever I am in the state of NM, until I proove otherwise that I have legally purchased the gun.

    Awful confusing here. Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD51 View Post
    Seems like everytime I turn around, something changes with gun laws, to the point you better be a Ron Shapiro. And then, is that any good, as every LEO wants to interpret the law their own way.

    If gun laws continue to change, even carrying those guns laws with you, could become obsolete on a week to week basis.

    As I understand it, one has the right to conceal carry within your vehicle, your motorcycle, and even on a bicycle in NM, provided you are not a conviceted felon. And perhaps a 3 ft rule applies as well, that I can conceal carry while gassing up my vehicle in a gas station.

    Where the grey area is in my eyes, is what happens when asked, and "after" you inform the LEO that yes, you have a gun in the vehicle, and what legal rights you have "after"?

    That in the course of an alleged traffic violation, or at a DWI checkpoint what is proper procedure for LEO's? What can I expect?

    I imagine that anything they want to do then is fair game to them, such as temporarily detaining me, taking my gun, unloading it, running a background ID check, and running serial numbers of my gun. Oh, and showing proof of purchase, that if I don't have such, my gun gets confiscated wherever I am in the state of NM, until I proove otherwise that I have legally purchased the gun.

    Awful confusing here. Mark
    In regards to a DWI checkpoint, I imagine basically no problems even if temporarily detained, searched, "if" you are determined to be sober. If not, I imagine you will be charged with "concealing a gun while intoxicated", no doubt a violation of NM Laws, correct?

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    Well everyone has the Right to not incriminate himself. So regardless of statutory law, you have the Right to not answer any question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Does it say 'visible gun'? What is the rule in NM on OC in a vehicle?

    In fact, is it, or is it not standard procedure for the LEO to remove a HG anytime they like. I can't imagine it needed to be 'law', and it seems odd that a person with a felony would be pushing this case all the way up to the SSC.
    I imagine, the felon was trying to get a ruling that would somehow make discovery of the handgun inadmissible.

    The police have every bit as much authority to remove a firearm as they do to remove
    a knife
    a bludgeon
    a club
    a purse or handbag
    a freshly baked angel food cake

    It's all part of the "firearms exemption" for the Fourth Amendment.

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    Regular Member XDm's Avatar
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    We used to remove them on traffic stops (APD) if officer safety was in question. Running them thru NCIC was standard practice.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger
    The police have every bit as much authority to remove a firearm as they do to remove ... a freshly baked angel food cake
    Well, as long at the 4A exception doesn't apply to brownies I'm OK with it.
    I mean, really, someone trying to take my chocolate???

    Quote Originally Posted by XDm
    We used to remove them on traffic stops (APD) if officer safety was in question. Running them thru NCIC was standard practice.
    On what grounds?
    Since the gun wasn't an element of the crime* for which you contacted the person (traffic stop), how could you justify doing more than maybe keeping it out of their reach (for "officer safety")?
    Running the serial # is an illegal search unless the gun is an element of the crime (or you persuade the person to allow it).

    * And it's quite possible that a traffic violation wasn't a crime, since many only come with a fine (forfeiture).
    Last edited by MKEgal; 05-25-2011 at 11:40 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD51 View Post
    Oh, and showing proof of purchase, that if I don't have such, my gun gets confiscated wherever I am in the state of NM, until I proove otherwise that I have legally purchased the gun.
    Did you pick this up from the recent show on LEO done on the Navajo reservation? I think it was pure fabricated BS for TV.

    People don't normally go around carrying their proofs of purchase, for anything let alone firearms.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    Then if you do that in NM and the police find out you have a gun, your (sic) going to jail.
    I don't follow you. If you do 'that'. What is that?

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    What Kind Of B.S. Crap Is That..!!..?

    Mark D 51 said in part..

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkD51 View Post
    Oh, and showing proof of purchase, that if I don't have such, my gun gets confiscated wherever I am in the state of NM, until I proove otherwise that I have legally purchased the gun.
    What Kind Of B.S. Crap Is That..!!..?

    I own firearms that were handed down to me by various family members years ago when NO paperwork was ever needed or made out. I also have firearms I bought years ago from stores and gun shops that aren't even in business anymore. And what about those firearms that I've received LEGALLY otherwise where there's NO paperwork involved?

    I have NO doubt what you're saying is true. With that being the case, NM won't ever see me traveling to or through it. I'll go out of my way to spend my $$$$'s in other states that are more firearms friendly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireStar M40 View Post

    I have NO doubt what you're saying is true. With that being the case, NM won't ever see me traveling to or through it. I'll go out of my way to spend my $$$$'s in other states that are more firearms friendly.
    Don't worry, it's not true at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AH.74 View Post
    Don't worry, it's not true at all.
    +1 No proof of purchase or ownership required.

    That is why people/posters that make erroneous statements regarding statutes, ordinances and/or policies and procedures need to be required to cite.
    http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbys.../gunlaw_nm.htm
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoball View Post
    As many others pointed out, in NM you do not have to notify the officer that you are carrying concealed. Of course, if asked, I would answer honestly.
    Me too. I have no problem answering that question. It's what they do after you answer that makes the situation good or bad.

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    As many others pointed out, in NM you do not have to notify the officer that you are carrying concealed. Of course, if asked, I would answer honestly.
    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    Me too. I have no problem answering that question. It's what they do after you answer that makes the situation good or bad.
    To clarify- if asked by an officer, it is the law that you answer truthfully. If not asked, you do not need to say anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    On what grounds?
    Since the gun wasn't an element of the crime* for which you contacted the person (traffic stop), how could you justify doing more than maybe keeping it out of their reach (for "officer safety")?
    Running the serial # is an illegal search unless the gun is an element of the crime (or you persuade the person to allow it).
    O shucks one more illegal search...

    That just means they can't try you for it court.
    It also doesn't mean you can have it back if it turns out to be stolen or some such. They may be forced to admit they had no reason to search or to sieze, but they still can't give it back if it is unlawful to posess.

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