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Thread: When someone asks "why do you feel the need to carry?"

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    When someone asks "why do you feel the need to carry?"

    This is a link to the TNT in Tacoma, Seattle Times, Bellingham Herald and Yakima-Herald and is specific to "shootings" in the search engine, in and around those areas.

    As I have had opportunity to talk about carry, both OC and CC with family and friends along with the odd stranger in the Safeway, this question has often come up at some point in the discussion. Having some of this information at hand or being able to refer to it, has helped to put some actual "context" to discussions in the areas that we all live and commute that go beyond opinions, emotion, projected fear and other bias to OC and/or carry issues in general.

    Other city specific papers may have a similiar link to their stories locally, but thought this may be a place to accumulate stories that are more than anecdotal and specific to WA. I think these will stay current as a live link and update automatically....

    http://blog.thenewstribune.com/crime/category/shooting/

    http://search.nwsource.com/search?fr...chtype=network

    http://www.bellinghamherald.com/sear...00&q=shootings

    http://www.yakima-herald.com/search/...all&order=desc

    It may have some merit as a "sticky" if there is value in the information.
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Regular Member sigfan's Avatar
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    Personally, when I am asked why I open carry, I answer based on who is requesting. If it's a cop, I typically give a wry grin and obviously glance at their open-carried firearm. They typically then respond with "I'm required to do that". To which I ask "why do you suppose they require you to open carry?" To which they give a miriad of reasons. Then I just say "those sound like good reasons to me." In another such instance, a cop said "but wouldn't it be better if you concealed?" I said, "I will conceal when the law gets rid of my requirement to show ID and a permit in order to conceal. I don't like being harrassed and value my privacy. Oddly enough, law enforcement in cooperation with legislators created this problem when you created the need to have a permit to exercise my constitutional right. Drop the permit requirement and I'll conceal." He responded "DO YOU have a permit??" To which I said "now you see the beauty of open carry. I can tell you to pound sand because it's none of your god damned business while I'm open carrying, is it?"

    Yes, I know those of you who feel we should always be polite when open carrying, and I usually am to the every day citizen. I refuse to be polite to police any longer.

    All others who ask about why I open carry are responded to based on their demeanor and willingness to actually hear the answer.
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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigfan View Post
    Personally, when I am asked why I open carry, I answer based on who is requesting. If it's a cop, I typically give a wry grin and obviously glance at their open-carried firearm. They typically then respond with "I'm required to do that". To which I ask "why do you suppose they require you to open carry?" To which they give a miriad of reasons. Then I just say "those sound like good reasons to me." In another such instance, a cop said "but wouldn't it be better if you concealed?" I said, "I will conceal when the law gets rid of my requirement to show ID and a permit in order to conceal. I don't like being harrassed and value my privacy. Oddly enough, law enforcement in cooperation with legislators created this problem when you created the need to have a permit to exercise my constitutional right. Drop the permit requirement and I'll conceal." He responded "DO YOU have a permit??" To which I said "now you see the beauty of open carry. I can tell you to pound sand because it's none of your god damned business while I'm open carrying, is it?"

    Yes, I know those of you who feel we should always be polite when open carrying, and I usually am to the every day citizen. I refuse to be polite to police any longer.

    All others who ask about why I open carry are responded to based on their demeanor and willingness to actually hear the answer.
    Well put Sir.
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    Regular Member sigfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Well put Sir.
    Well, I would like to think it was the clarity of my argument that made the cop shut up and go away. However, we were at Subway and his sandwich was done so I think his hunger pains trumped his desire to further continue.
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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Wow, first link in the list has this...

    "McDougald, 36, lived in the Graham area, the Pierce County Medical Examiner's Office reported today. An autopsy revealed he died of a gunshot wound to the back."

    ... in the back...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderTattoo View Post
    Wow, first link in the list has this...

    "McDougald, 36, lived in the Graham area, the Pierce County Medical Examiner's Office reported today. An autopsy revealed he died of a gunshot wound to the back."

    ... in the back...
    I would shoot an intruder in the back if they were running toward my child's bedroom with a weapon. Self defense can include 3rd parties as well.

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    Regular Member Schlepnier's Avatar
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    My usual response would include
    "i choose not to be a victim, the person responsible for my protection is me, i also choose to exercise my legal washington state and US constitutional rights"
    +thought for the day+
    ++victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none++

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigfan View Post
    Personally, when I am asked why I open carry, I answer based on who is requesting. If it's a cop, I typically give a wry grin and obviously glance at their open-carried firearm. They typically then respond with "I'm required to do that". To which I ask "why do you suppose they require you to open carry?" To which they give a miriad of reasons. Then I just say "those sound like good reasons to me." In another such instance, a cop said "but wouldn't it be better if you concealed?" I said, "I will conceal when the law gets rid of my requirement to show ID and a permit in order to conceal. I don't like being harrassed and value my privacy. Oddly enough, law enforcement in cooperation with legislators created this problem when you created the need to have a permit to exercise my constitutional right. Drop the permit requirement and I'll conceal." He responded "DO YOU have a permit??" To which I said "now you see the beauty of open carry. I can tell you to pound sand because it's none of your god damned business while I'm open carrying, is it?"

    Yes, I know those of you who feel we should always be polite when open carrying, and I usually am to the every day citizen. I refuse to be polite to police any longer.

    All others who ask about why I open carry are responded to based on their demeanor and willingness to actually hear the answer.
    We are from the same school of thought......maybe the school of too many LEO encounters.

    And isn't it funny how they all say they respect our rights and are "civil" libertarians yet their departments work for every single control measure put out there against any sort of weapon?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpyderTattoo View Post
    Wow, first link in the list has this...

    "McDougald, 36, lived in the Graham area, the Pierce County Medical Examiner's Office reported today. An autopsy revealed he died of a gunshot wound to the back."

    ... in the back...
    You know what I think I think we need to retrain the population that it doesn't matter, that a thief, mugger, rapists, (name your villain here) made the choice of what his life was worth when he violated yours.

    If I am on a jury I don't care where the guy was shot, it would simply be what were his actions that led him to being shot.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    The only person that's asked me that in the last few years was my ultra liberal relative. Anything I would have said in reply would have started the argument he was looking for. I ignored the question and he walked off. The even his wife said "that's the way to handle him".

    Most "normal" people I encounter usually don't ask me "why", they merely comment on how they didn't know it was legal.

    As for the "Cop" that told me it was illegal about 5 years or so ago, I found out after the fact that he was a KCSO Deputy that had been relegated to prisoner escort detail at the Courthouse. Wasn't fit for street duty any more according to sources.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

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    I was standing outside Goodwill in B'ham waiting for it to open. I was about ten mins early and there was a small crowd of about fifteen or twenty folks around the door. Conversations were the usual meaningless small talk. I noticed a man watching me and I wondered if he would actually say something. It took him a few mins but he finally asked, "Why are you carrying a gun?" At that point the crowd seemed to go quiet. I answered, "According to the police, there are thirtyone known gangs in Whatcom county with a total population of about six hundred. In the Army thats about a reinforced battalion. I carry to be safe. If they see my weapon they might move on to a softer target, like you." You could almost hear the crickets. So I added, "And you know you just have to be ready for that Zombie Appocolypse!" THAT eased the tension and most of them chuckled as the doors opened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    The only person that's asked me that in the last few years was my ultra liberal relative. Anything I would have said in reply would have started the argument he was looking for. I ignored the question and he walked off. The even his wife said "that's the way to handle him".

    Most "normal" people I encounter usually don't ask me "why", they merely comment on how they didn't know it was legal.

    As for the "Cop" that told me it was illegal about 5 years or so ago, I found out after the fact that he was a KCSO Deputy that had been relegated to prisoner escort detail at the Courthouse. Wasn't fit for street duty any more according to sources.
    "I like the taste of chocolate milkshakes on a Tuesday".

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    I generally just spout off "For self defense" since it's quick and to the point. It's surprising how annoyed people get when you say "Self defense"... It's like they don't want you to be able to defend yourself. I actually got asked why my friends and all were carrying guns the other day (we were at Cash & Carry in Bremerton). The woman asked us, I answered, then she commented that her husband wanted to carry a gun. My buddy, who usually CCs and only OCs with me around, said "It's only 55 dollars and a quarter to get his CPL.". She responded with, "Oh, he has that. I just won't let him.". Pretty sad if you ask me... =\
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    I generally just spout off "For self defense" since it's quick and to the point. It's surprising how annoyed people get when you say "Self defense"... It's like they don't want you to be able to defend yourself. I actually got asked why my friends and all were carrying guns the other day (we were at Cash & Carry in Bremerton). The woman asked us, I answered, then she commented that her husband wanted to carry a gun. My buddy, who usually CCs and only OCs with me around, said "It's only 55 dollars and a quarter to get his CPL.". She responded with, "Oh, he has that. I just won't let him.". Pretty sad if you ask me... =\
    Someone needs to go Nike with it... Just do it.
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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    I generally just spout off "For self defense" since it's quick and to the point. It's surprising how annoyed people get when you say "Self defense"... It's like they don't want you to be able to defend yourself. I actually got asked why my friends and all were carrying guns the other day (we were at Cash & Carry in Bremerton). The woman asked us, I answered, then she commented that her husband wanted to carry a gun. My buddy, who usually CCs and only OCs with me around, said "It's only 55 dollars and a quarter to get his CPL.". She responded with, "Oh, he has that. I just won't let him.". Pretty sad if you ask me... =\
    Hmmmm.

    PW
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    She responded with, "Oh, he has that. I just won't let him.". Pretty sad if you ask me...
    He does not sound like someone with the will to use it even if he wore it. I would consider him dangerous in an SD situation.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    He does not sound like someone with the will to use it even if he wore it. I would consider him dangerous in an SD situation.
    Unless he has his wife by his side and she gives him permission. Could definitely slow things down, especially if the BG shot the wife first. But then rather than just shoot the BG on his own, he might just say "Thank You".
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Unless he has his wife by his side and she gives him permission. Could definitely slow things down, especially if the BG shot the wife first. But then rather than just shoot the BG on his own, he might just say "Thank You".
    If I was with her, I'd definitely send that kind fellow a thank you basket and reimbursement for the round spent on her.
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post

    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    I generally just spout off "For self defense" since it's quick and to the point. It's surprising how annoyed people get when you say "Self defense"... It's like they don't want you to be able to defend yourself. I actually got asked why my friends and all were carrying guns the other day (we were at Cash & Carry in Bremerton). The woman asked us, I answered, then she commented that her husband wanted to carry a gun. My buddy, who usually CCs and only OCs with me around, said "It's only 55 dollars and a quarter to get his CPL.". She responded with, "Oh, he has that. I just won't let him.". Pretty sad if you ask me... =\

    Hmmmm.

    PW
    When i told my GF I was going to start carrying she got a really freaked out look on her face and said "no thats not good because this and this and this and that"

    I said "get over it"

    NOT PW!!!!!

    about 2 weeks ago a clerk got shot a gas station less than 600 yrds from where she lives. interestingly enough she has now changed her mind.
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    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    If the person asking why I carry were wearing a hat (or belt or whatever some-such)...why do you wear a hat?

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    I generally just spout off "For self defense" since it's quick and to the point. It's surprising how annoyed people get when you say "Self defense"... It's like they don't want you to be able to defend yourself. I actually got asked why my friends and all were carrying guns the other day (we were at Cash & Carry in Bremerton). The woman asked us, I answered, then she commented that her husband wanted to carry a gun. My buddy, who usually CCs and only OCs with me around, said "It's only 55 dollars and a quarter to get his CPL.". She responded with, "Oh, he has that. I just won't let him.". Pretty sad if you ask me... =\
    I really dont think thier thought process at the moment is they dont want you to be able to defend yourself, (although that is their ultimate goal, when protesting guns). I think it is more they are so out of touch with reality and think they have made a great choice in their immediate location and think there is no danger where they are at any given time. They have no concept that there are not just certian locations that crime will happen. If they have a cell phone, (which most everyone does now days) they feel perfectly safe thinking that all they have to do to stop crime, is call 911.

    Too many people with a "Picaso Thought process".
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I really dont think thier thought process at the moment is they dont want you to be able to defend yourself, (although that is their ultimate goal, when protesting guns). I think it is more they are so out of touch with reality and think they have made a great choice in their immediate location and think there is no danger where they are at any given time. They have no concept that there are not just certian locations that crime will happen. If they have a cell phone, (which most everyone does now days) they feel perfectly safe thinking that all they have to do to stop crime, is call 911.

    Too many people with a "Picaso Thought process".
    Funny, what i most notice is the number of men with cell phones on their belts. Not even a pocket knife. My cell phone is in my pocket. You wouldn't even know I had one. And in event of being attacked, it is the last thing I would reach for. I often wonder what thought would go through their minds if they were attacked and they suddenly realized the uselessness of a cell phone.

    Greeter at Lowes asked me why the gun. I replied that I didn't want to be a victim. Her eyes rolled back in her head and her brain hit TILT. I don't think she'd ever considered what she'd do if she were attacked, I'm not sure she'd ever thought that "victim" implied a choice.

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnH View Post
    Funny, what i most notice is the number of men with cell phones on their belts. Not even a pocket knife. My cell phone is in my pocket. You wouldn't even know I had one. And in event of being attacked, it is the last thing I would reach for. I often wonder what thought would go through their minds if they were attacked and they suddenly realized the uselessness of a cell phone.

    Greeter at Lowes asked me why the gun. I replied that I didn't want to be a victim. Her eyes rolled back in her head and her brain hit TILT. I don't think she'd ever considered what she'd do if she were attacked, I'm not sure she'd ever thought that "victim" implied a choice.

    That's funny. My cell phone is also just in my pocket. I have a pocket knife clipped to my pocket, the cell phone in my pocket and the gun and magazine on my belt. Cell phones and pocket knives are good, but don't compare to a gun for self defense.
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I answered, "According to the police, there are thirtyone known gangs in Whatcom county with a total population of about six hundred. In the Army thats about a reinforced battalion.
    This is an interesting way to look things, especially since it's only one county, makes me wonder just how many spare magazines I'll need to start carrying..Thanks for the thought provoking perspective.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrlysef View Post
    This is an interesting way to look things, especially since it's only one county, makes me wonder just how many spare magazines I'll need to start carrying..Thanks for the thought provoking perspective.
    And just think. These Gang Members are all following all the firearms laws too. You know, the ones that keep convicted felons from owning or carrying firearms.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    NATO - Brigade

    Quote Originally Posted by hrlysef View Post
    This is an interesting way to look things, especially since it's only one county, makes me wonder just how many spare magazines I'll need to start carrying..Thanks for the thought provoking perspective.
    Pierce county is worse....and provides decent fodder for communicating with an anti, or "gun curious" question for carry.

    We have a NATO equivalent of a "Brigade", at 3,000 according to this study and three more years of active recruitment.

    "IT BEGAN IN THE ’80s

    Gangs sprouted in the city in the mid-1980s when gang members from California drove up Interstate 5 and brought crack cocaine – and the violence associated with rivals warring over street corners – into Tacoma’s neighborhoods.

    They’ve been a part of the city ever since.

    A 2008 survey by the National Gang Intelligence Center estimated 2,500 to 3,500 people were members or associates of dozens of gangs in Pierce County. The survey was based on information and data from law enforcement agencies.


    Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/0...#ixzz1NwLfxSsL
    "

    I also found this rather interesting on the history and functionality of a "Regiment" system...

    Just substitute "County" for "Country", "Gang (name)" for "Regiments"....

    I am beginning to think we gave them the play book.....who says they can't read!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiment
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

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