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Thread: Addressing illegal detainment in the Tri-Cities

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    Addressing illegal detainment in the Tri-Cities

    I've been stopped and placed in cuffs on more that one occassion here in the TC. Only recently have I found out that simply being OC (only reason I've ever been cuffed) is not sufficient for LEOs to stop and detain a civilian. Apparently I am not the only one, so I would like to brainstorm and come up with a plan that will be followed through to address this issue.
    Being new I've gone through your guys threads and saw an excellent letter made for this purpose, but for me I feel it is imperitive to humanize what is important. For example - all of us know that sexual crimes occur in the TC, but did you know that during the fiscal year 2009-2010 there were 410 individual incidents reported to SARC (The Sexual Assault Response Center)? The point is numbers highlight. I know we have them, not just us Ocers, but our families and loved ones as well.
    What I picture is us drafting collectively a piece that will enunciate the right to OC, as well as the illegality of the detainment for the sole reason that we are OC. Then to humanize our cause, we all handwrite (much more personal than typed fonts) we we do so, why our wives, kids, friends et cetera (they should handwrite that themselves) why we do so and why they feel safer that we do. The next step is accountability . . .
    Perhaps I am a little too influenced, but I am a big fan of the movie "V for Vendetta" (the graphic novel it was based on was much better), and I cannot get over the quote that "People should not fear their governments, governments should fear the people.". In no way am I suggesting terrorist acts such as blowing up Big Ben or Parliament, rather I feel that when we do whatever it is we do to address illegal detainment in the TC (my ideas are just mine btw, we should decide as the brotherhood which we are), we should have the media involved. We cast the burden of upholding the laws and constitutional rights that LEO are sworn to uphold upon them - I am certain that this can be accomplished without burning bridges or putting a bad taste in their mouth. That presumption is based on the fact that as OCers, I know what legal infractions you have not obtained so I believe I can trust none of us to 'act a fool'.
    That's my piece. All I know is that I'm tired of being cuffed and humiliated in front of the public as if I'm some Norteno o Sureno gangbanger thug. Liberty lives as long as it is kept alive . .

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    Kozak

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    On a related note I found a website today where you can rate businesses based on their stance on OC. The note is related because we can share establishments with each other that do not mind OC, but particularly highlight those that don't so that nobody else is illegally detained.
    There were no entries locally when I found it, so the first 4-6 are my experiences
    http://www.friendorfoe.us/

    X-
    Kozak

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    You are in the right place for answers. I would direct my questions to those most knowledgable, M1gunr, GoGo, Deros, and SVG. they seem to have the most logical responses in my opinion. No offense meant to anyone else.

    I think I would start by getting police reports and filing a complaint asking for training bulletins to be sent out to KPD officers so that they do not wind up with a lawsuit for illegal detainment.

    Did Albertsons ask you to leave or did KPD?
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexMayhem View Post
    On a related note I found a website today where you can rate businesses based on their stance on OC. The note is related because we can share establishments with each other that do not mind OC, but particularly highlight those that don't so that nobody else is illegally detained.
    There were no entries locally when I found it, so the first 4-6 are my experiences
    http://www.friendorfoe.us/

    X-
    Kozak
    I have been lazy updating on this site since comming to this side of the hill, last I updated something there was about 7 months ago around snohomish.

    I just added some places, and will do more when I'm less tired.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    AlexMayhem you have caught the bug and at the beginning we internalize which is mostly emotion filled and through some preparation one needs to focus on the subject with supporting information.

    Freedom First is working on addressing Kennewick and awaiting Public Records Request before proceeding which is highly recommended. A joint effort may be in line depending if you both are in align with approach and information, as we know when to many hands get into the pot, usually it turns to mud or something unrecognizable.

    Here is the thread to Freedom First Contact which has some good reference material.

    I have helped many others in this as well, if you have questions ask away and I am sure there are plenty will assist as well.
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    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
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    Can you be more specific about some of the times that you have been detained? Which police force, for example, WSU Campus, Kennewick PD, Pascoe etc?

    If, as you say, there have been multiple occasions, then I believe that you are past the point of writing nice letters and you should file a formal complaint with the relevant force. Concentrate on the detainment/seizure as a 4th amendment / WA Constitutional Art 1 Sect 7 issue; rather than primarily as a 2nd Admt issue.

    If you supply more details, there are plenty of people on this forum who can help draft a formal complaint.

    Edit - never mind, I found your thread here:

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...=1#post1538009

    Somewhere on the WA forum are some police training bulletins, from other WA cities, that you could also use to educate your local force. I'll see if I can find them; unless someone else beats me to it.
    Last edited by NavyMike; 05-25-2011 at 01:39 AM.
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Somewhere on the WA forum are some police training bulletins, from other WA cities, that you could also use to educate your local force. I'll see if I can find them; unless someone else beats me to it.
    Beat you to it...
    http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads

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    [QUOTE=NavyMike;1538627]Can you be more specific about some of the times that you have been detained? Which police force, for example, WSU Campus, Kennewick PD, Pascoe etc?

    First detainment was a few years back KPD. My buddy was des driving me home and we were stopped. Because I had drank a few beers that night and the firearm which was locked in the glove box was mine (We both have CPLs and he had the key to the box so it was in his possesion.) they cuffed me and ran us both for wants. We got set free and the officer complimented my taste in pistols as he has the same one. - I feel this was justified on their part.

    Second detainment was outside of Washington Hardware in Kenn last summer. I was waiting to meet a gal for a lunch date, OC on the hood of my car reading when I saw to cruisers heading for me. The female officer (Brown), cuffed me as her backup struggled to figure out how to remove my pistol from my Serpa holster. Got set free after the "You should conceal speech . . .". Didn't get to go on the date because she showed up as I was being cuffed it scared her. The gal asked that I only CC when she is around.

    Third detainment was the night of the second. I was able to convince the gal to go shooting with me, and as we are heading home I get stopped because my license plate light is out. I was CC, but the BCSD did not detain me he just held my firearm until he ran me and let us go. The gal was a little freaked out by that too. As I head to take her home WSP stops me on 395/clearwater heading S because I didn't signal. Again I was CC, again they took the firearm as they ran me and again I was set free. Gal was starting to get annoyed by LEOs. Finally decide to take the gal somewhere way far away from LEOs, I let her OC there to start getting used to the feel. Take her to the top of Badger Mountain, gorgeous night so with her OC and me CC I play "moondance" by Van morrison and as we are dancing RPD rolls up on us. I keep her calm as the officer approaches immediately calling for backup. They cuffed me but not her. They grill me pretty hard as to what why we were carrying up there as if we had some evil ulterior motive. I want to say 5-6 officers responded, and the Corporal that showed up finally settled things down. We were set free after 30 min or so. They forgot to return my license and CPL, so the next night I called non-emergency dispatch and told them I want the Corporal to return my property - not the jerk cop that insinuated I was someone wicked. The Corporal did and apologized for the way things were handled.

    The forth was Albertsons - I've already shared that a few times.

    Thank you gents for the advice, I'll be getting ahold of those agencies to get reports.

    X-
    Kozak

  9. #9
    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
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    There is no legal requirement to inform the LEO that you are armed or have weapons in the car, in WA State. They may ask if there are weapons in the car; but you do not need to answer.

    As the passenger in a vehicle, involved in a WA traffic stop, you are not required to hand over ID. The moment the LEO asks (including requests versus demands) without reasonable suspicion that you (as the passenger) have committed a crime, this is an uncostitutional seizure in WA. WA State v Rankin.

    In WA, The LEO also cannot search the passenger or any container identified as belonging to the passenger, without a warrant. State v Parker.

    At the federal level, a firearm is not in itself evidence that would raise suspicion to level that justifies a Terry stop. In Florida v JL. the court declined to adopt a 'firearms exception' to the Terry analysis.

    This means that the police have no authority to stop you and ask you for ID for lawfully carrying a holstered pistol; anymore than if you were carrying an umbrella or a ham sandwich, for that matter.

    Given that your last police seizure occured a few weeks ago, I would start with an information request for police reports, statements, dispatch logs and any police voice/video recordings from their vehicles. I would then use that info to formulate a formal complaint for an unconstitutional seizure.
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

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