Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: you are required to present ID to enter this gov't building

  1. #1
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    in front of my computer, WI
    Posts
    4,426

    you are required to present ID to enter this gov't building

    This is the webpage for the US District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.
    They posted a note titled "Increased Building Security":
    Security at the Federal Courthouse has been increased due to heightened threat levels. Until further notice, all persons accessing the building are required to provide proper identification.
    Here's a PDF of the announcement.

    Does anyone else see this as chilling our right to witness our gov't in action?
    Does anyone else see the irony in a court building breaking the law?

    What possible good will it do for me to present a card with a picture of me, & a name?
    How will that keep the building safer?
    I presume they already have armed guards & metal detectors.

    Once more, with feeling: we can't be forced to identify ourselves to gov't agents!

  2. #2
    Regular Member grinner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Pewaukee, WI
    Posts
    101
    Wow. I'm stunned. This stuff shouldn't shock me anymore, but it still does. Just Wow.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Motofixxer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Somewhere over the Rainbow
    Posts
    970
    Yea, explain to the judge that you missed your trial because they wouldn't let you in the building. See how long that rule lasts.
    Click Here for New to WI Open Carry Legal References and Informational Videos--- FAQ's http://Tinyurl.com/OpenCarry-WI

    The Armed Badger A WI site dedicated to Concealed Carry in WI

    "To disarm the people... was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -- George Mason, Speech of June 14, 1788

    http://Tinyurl.com/New-To-Guns to DL useful Info

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    4,348
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    This is the webpage for the US District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.
    They posted a note titled "Increased Building Security":

    Here's a PDF of the announcement.

    Does anyone else see this as chilling our right to witness our gov't in action?
    Does anyone else see the irony in a court building breaking the law?

    What possible good will it do for me to present a card with a picture of me, & a name?
    How will that keep the building safer?
    I presume they already have armed guards & metal detectors.

    Once more, with feeling: we can't be forced to identify ourselves to gov't agents!

    .............--Moderator Deleted--

    WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 05-25-2011 at 06:23 PM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  5. #5
    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    2,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    --Moderator Deleted--. !
    Our founding fathers did not reset anything. They stood their ground when England tried to negate the colonial government. We are not being occupied. We already have free elections. What you are proposing is an insurrection. Any insurrection would simply result in a loss of lives without a "reset". Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. The following quote is from Jefferson after Shay's Rebellion. While it is good to make noise, any insurrection will be squashed and simply serve as a warning to others including the politicians. While people love to use the tree of Liberty quote, they ignorantly neglect to include the rest for perspective.

    They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & a half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    4,348
    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor_Knight View Post
    Our founding fathers did not reset anything. They stood their ground when England tried to negate the colonial government. We are not being occupied. We already have free elections. What you are proposing is an insurrection. Any insurrection would simply result in a loss of lives without a "reset". Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. The following quote is from Jefferson after Shay's Rebellion. While it is good to make noise, any insurrection will be squashed and simply serve as a warning to others including the politicians. While people love to use the tree of Liberty quote, they ignorantly neglect to include the rest for perspective.
    Well, We will agree to disagree. some people are very content with thier lives & not making waves also very happy with the false freedoms they have while others can see through the smoke screen of totalitarianism that this country has become. The reason this country is so hopelessly lost is the fact it has been over 200 years since the law makers were warned with a rebellion..now they feel they are untouchable because they have passed so many laws in the last 200 years we are no longer a free people or a free country. They have legislated away our rights & given us Privilages, insane taxation, & 3 to 5 letter totalitarian beurocracratic agencies that rule every aspect of our lives. All we have now are shadows of the actual rights we once had with Big Brother watching us all the time.... Just look at the 2nd Ammendment, the right to keep & bear arms, shall not be infringed....but that has been perverted into a privillage ...fill out form 4473, wait for check, maybe you get the ok....if you a felon, no gun, restraining order your guns get taken away, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.....<<< What part of shall NOT INFRINGED did the law makers that passed these ANTI GUN laws not understand ?

    If an insurrection ever become a reality ( God forbid )..it won't be squashed or Crushed quickly, Just who will do the squashing ? the police - they will be overwhelmed with in days , the Military ? they are so thinly stretched with world wide deployments they would be pretty useless as the Millions of armed people would overwhelm them too quite rapidly & half the troops would not fire on citizens, so who is left to stand against it a handfull of well armed citizens who think all is fine & dandy ?? & can quote Thomas Jefferson...it would quickly turn into a civil war as some of the Minority demographics would see this as an oppurtunity to loot , burn & pilliage ( just look at Katrina ) creating general chaos & it would last years. But it would create ALOT of manure for that Tree
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  7. #7
    Opt-Out Members scm54449's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Marshfield, WI
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    Well, We will agree to disagree.... others can see through the smoke screen of totalitarianism that this country has become...
    I respectfully submit that your opinion and definition of what constitutes totalitarianism varies greatly from that of individuals I've spoken with who lived under the "reign" of Joseph Stalin.

    Speaking of Russia, they have a total ban on handguns and a homicide rate that is quadruple that of the United States!!

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1
    Member of Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultus habebunt...

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    4,348
    we repeal it or defeat it in the courts. .....OK..Don't bother waking up & seeing things as they really are just KEEP DREAMING , lol...There is not enough money in existence to pay the Lawyers or time enough in a hundred years to defeat every unconstitutional law that currently fills the 100 's of volumes of law books that make up this land of Laws... How can a people be free when their are hundreds of volumes of law books ? & how can they be free when many of those laws that have been in those books for many years are unconstitutional ? & how will those laws be defeated in the courts when the supreme court is hand picked by presidents that have agenda's & the same with the individual Justices who lean left or right while interpreting laws with their own agenda's ? Corrupt this nation & it's laws have become, while at the same time those that enforce the laws have become immune to prosecution.

    You guys that believe this country is good to go, just keep smoking that hallucinogenic stuff....It's easier than seeing things for what they really ..


    AND to the Moderator..you keep deleting certain post because they are talking about Illegal subject matter....If a founding father wrote it into one of the founding documents then Sir..How is it illegal ??? I will post for you to read something from one of our founding documents that spells out what the people are supposed to do when this Nation becomes untenable as this nation has become >>>>

    Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--




    --Moderator Statement--
    Those that have been around here for even a short time understand this:


    ACCEPTANCE OF RULES
    If you do not agree with any of these Rules then please do not use this site, because BY USING THIS SITE YOU WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE IRREVOCABLY AGREED TO THESE RULES. Please note that these Rules may be revised and reissued without notice at any time. You should review the current Rules regularly, since your continued use of the site will be deemed as irrevocable acceptance of any revisions.
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 05-25-2011 at 09:40 PM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    4,348
    Quote Originally Posted by scm54449 View Post
    I respectfully submit that your opinion and definition of what constitutes totalitarianism varies greatly from that of individuals I've spoken with who lived under the "reign" of Joseph Stalin.

    Speaking of Russia, they have a total ban on handguns and a homicide rate that is quadruple that of the United States!!

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...g=content;col1
    new word for you .....Soft Tyranny......... when Gobernment agencies like the BATFE exist & are allowed to freely do the Illegal, TOTALITARIAN stuff they can do to people at will, then Sir..YES you live in a totalitarian Police state...I know the truth is depressing, shocking & frightening...BUT WAKE UP !
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    GREEN BAY, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    288
    Let me shed some light upon this dismal and heavily debated issue of using your State issued ID card.
    Since Bin Laden was killed, heighten awareness of ANY threat twords public area, such as a Court House in this case has been taken seriously.
    Most especially Military Installations, I have had to use my ID card for regular entry to several, in the past it was not scrutinized. Now it is, I get why, so big deal if I must present an ID card to gain access.
    The measures taken are realistic and necessary, disagree as you may, this is the new age we are living in. Given the past circumstances of the threats on the US and it Citizens from terrorists, this is what we will endure.

  11. #11
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047
    Quote Originally Posted by qball54208 View Post
    Let me shed some light upon this dismal and heavily debated issue of using your State issued ID card.
    Since Bin Laden was killed, heighten awareness of ANY threat twords public area, such as a Court House in this case has been taken seriously.
    Most especially Military Installations, I have had to use my ID card for regular entry to several, in the past it was not scrutinized. Now it is, I get why, so big deal if I must present an ID card to gain access.
    The measures taken are realistic and necessary, disagree as you may, this is the new age we are living in. Given the past circumstances of the threats on the US and it Citizens from terrorists, this is what we will endure.
    Please show a law, in this case, a Federal law, that allows this.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    4,348
    Quote Originally Posted by paul@paul-fisher.com View Post
    Please show a law, in this case, a Federal law, that allows this.
    With ..Executive orders the president can go around the Congress &the senate...Executive order..stroke of the pen , law of the land...I doubt our founding fathers EVER envisioned any of this, but if they were alive today..they would be planning something big... Those that trade freedom for security deserve neither....
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 05-25-2011 at 11:46 PM.
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  13. #13
    Opt-Out Members scm54449's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Marshfield, WI
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    new word for you .....Soft Tyranny......... when Gobernment agencies like the BATFE exist & are allowed to freely do the Illegal, TOTALITARIAN stuff they can do to people at will, then Sir..YES you live in a totalitarian Police state...I know the truth is depressing, shocking & frightening...BUT WAKE UP !
    Civil language cannot express my sentiments regarding the BATF. That said, I am humbled, speechless, I daresay flat-out gob-smacked at having exchanged posts with the only individual on this forum who possesses the one, clear vision of truth and reality in our country. Unfortunately, you are not the first individual on this forum to claim that status.
    Member of Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultus habebunt...

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    GREEN BAY, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    288
    Paul, I have not researched any Federal Laws at this point, however, I do know that showing an ID card to access Federal/Government property and/or buildings has drastically changed post 9/11. I am aware, as EVERYONE should be today, that the death of Bin Laden has put ALL human beings, everywhere in the World at some kind of risk.
    Opinions abound Pro & Con on this issue, I did not post my comment to get into a ******* contest w/anyone.

    I swore an Oath when I Enlisted into the Military, To uphold the Constitution of the United States...

  15. #15
    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,047
    Quote Originally Posted by qball54208 View Post
    Paul, I have not researched any Federal Laws at this point, however, I do know that showing an ID card to access Federal/Government property and/or buildings has drastically changed post 9/11. I am aware, as EVERYONE should be today, that the death of Bin Laden has put ALL human beings, everywhere in the World at some kind of risk.
    Opinions abound Pro & Con on this issue, I did not post my comment to get into a ******* contest w/anyone.

    I swore an Oath when I Enlisted into the Military, To uphold the Constitution of the United States...
    I understand the cause of the restrictions, I am just saying that they have no basis in law and need to be challenged.

    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

    - Benjamin Franklin
    We need to go back to pre-9/11 days. The terrorists have won. They have made us give up liberty, they have made us go broke. I'm sure just before Osama had a taxpayer financed bullet go through his brain, he was chuckling to himself.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by qball54208 View Post
    Let me shed some light upon this dismal and heavily debated issue of using your State issued ID card.
    Since Bin Laden was killed, heighten awareness of ANY threat twords public area, such as a Court House in this case has been taken seriously.
    Most especially Military Installations, I have had to use my ID card for regular entry to several, in the past it was not scrutinized. Now it is, I get why, so big deal if I must present an ID card to gain access.
    The measures taken are realistic and necessary, disagree as you may, this is the new age we are living in. Given the past circumstances of the threats on the US and it Citizens from terrorists, this is what we will endure.
    Military installations are not open to the public. Courts are supposed to be. It is appropriate to identify the person to whom the privilege of an invitation is extended. It is not appropriate (and unconstitutional) to require a person exercising his rights to produce his "papers."

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    GREEN BAY, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    288
    @ Paul, yes it would be great to get back to pre 9/11!
    It is what it is, a new era of life in these United States.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    .............--Moderator Deleted--

    WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.

    Yeah, what he said...

    Because that tactic worked so well for the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s, and Women's Suffrage movement, and the anti-Prohibitionists, and the Colonial Founding Fathers, and the anti-Apartheid activists in South Africa, and the White Rose Society...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  19. #19
    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastside, Washington, USA
    Posts
    196

    ID Papers will not prevent a terrorist attack

    Quote Originally Posted by qball54208 View Post
    Let me shed some light upon this dismal and heavily debated issue of using your State issued ID card.
    Since Bin Laden was killed, heighten awareness of ANY threat twords public area, such as a Court House in this case has been taken seriously.
    Most especially Military Installations, I have had to use my ID card for regular entry to several, in the past it was not scrutinized. Now it is, I get why, so big deal if I must present an ID card to gain access.
    The measures taken are realistic and necessary, disagree as you may, this is the new age we are living in. Given the past circumstances of the threats on the US and it Citizens from terrorists, this is what we will endure.
    Because asking for ID papers would have prevented the 911 attacks or will prevent another attack from taking place?

    Fourteen of 15 [Of the 911] operatives and all of the pilots acquired one or multiple forms of U.S. state-issued identification.

    Source: http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_...rrTrav_Ch2.pdf
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by NavyMike View Post
    Because asking for ID papers would have prevented the 911 attacks or will prevent another attack from taking place?

    Fourteen of 15 [Of the 911] operatives and all of the pilots acquired one or multiple forms of U.S. state-issued identification.

    Source: http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_...rrTrav_Ch2.pdf
    Pretty good point. So we can ad to saying "criminals carry concealed" that "criminals carry I.D."
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastside, Washington, USA
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Pretty good point. So we can ad to saying "criminals carry concealed" that "criminals carry I.D."
    Exactly, this does nothing more than create an illusion of security. It's little different to declaring a Gun Free School zone and expecting it to magically keep out the Seung-Hui Cho's of this world.

    Unless the court has a named suspect who has made a threat against the court, what's the point of asking for ID? Does the court have its own equivalent to a 'no fly' list?
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Northern Nevada, ,
    Posts
    721
    There is at least one federal litigant who could not appear in federal court because he lacked identification. His lawsuit suffered because of his absence. He appealed and lost. Sorry, but I can't cite his case presently.

    Ah here's another one...

    http://www.papersplease.org/_dl/Foti...ning_brief.pdf

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    6,787
    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Does anyone else see this as chilling our right to witness our gov't in action?
    Not really. I doubt they'd turn away anyone carrying a valid government (state or federal) ID. Furthermore, it's not a participatory forum anyway. I'd be alarmed if they recorded people's attendance.

    Does anyone else see the irony in a court building breaking the law?
    What law are they breaking, MKEgal?

    What possible good will it do for me to present a card with a picture of me, & a name? How will that keep the building safer?
    Valid ID's aren't as easy to come by or make as one might think. Then again, they're not that difficult to make, either.

    The primary benefit is that it puts those who may cause mayhem on notice that they're watching the entrances fairly closely.

    How will that keep the building safer?
    I presume they already have armed guards & metal detectors.
    Which are great for stopping an overt frontal attack and detecting metal.

    Once more, with feeling: we can't be forced to identify ourselves to gov't agents.
    Really? RAS/PC gives them the right. Given the elevated threat, anyone refusing to ID themselves raises enough suspicion... Right?

    Right?

    (pin drops)

    Well, at least that's the approach they're using. Earlier someone on another thread posted a laundry list of federal court level findings which indicate that you're correct, MKEgal, they can't force us to identify ourselves.

    They may, however, prevent access to certain buildings and properties, the same way everyone entering a military installation, whether military or civilian, must also show ID.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •