• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

you are required to present ID to enter this gov't building

MKEgal

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
This is the webpage for the US District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.
They posted a note titled "Increased Building Security":
Security at the Federal Courthouse has been increased due to heightened threat levels. Until further notice, all persons accessing the building are required to provide proper identification.
Here's a PDF of the announcement.

Does anyone else see this as chilling our right to witness our gov't in action?
Does anyone else see the irony in a court building breaking the law?

What possible good will it do for me to present a card with a picture of me, & a name?
How will that keep the building safer?
I presume they already have armed guards & metal detectors.

Once more, with feeling: we can't be forced to identify ourselves to gov't agents!
 

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
This is the webpage for the US District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.
They posted a note titled "Increased Building Security":

Here's a PDF of the announcement.

Does anyone else see this as chilling our right to witness our gov't in action?
Does anyone else see the irony in a court building breaking the law?

What possible good will it do for me to present a card with a picture of me, & a name?
How will that keep the building safer?
I presume they already have armed guards & metal detectors.

Once more, with feeling: we can't be forced to identify ourselves to gov't agents!


.............--Moderator Deleted--

WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.
 
Last edited:

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
--Moderator Deleted--. !
Our founding fathers did not reset anything. They stood their ground when England tried to negate the colonial government. We are not being occupied. We already have free elections. What you are proposing is an insurrection. Any insurrection would simply result in a loss of lives without a "reset". Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. The following quote is from Jefferson after Shay's Rebellion. While it is good to make noise, any insurrection will be squashed and simply serve as a warning to others including the politicians. While people love to use the tree of Liberty quote, they ignorantly neglect to include the rest for perspective.

They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & a half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure.
 

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Our founding fathers did not reset anything. They stood their ground when England tried to negate the colonial government. We are not being occupied. We already have free elections. What you are proposing is an insurrection. Any insurrection would simply result in a loss of lives without a "reset". Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. The following quote is from Jefferson after Shay's Rebellion. While it is good to make noise, any insurrection will be squashed and simply serve as a warning to others including the politicians. While people love to use the tree of Liberty quote, they ignorantly neglect to include the rest for perspective.

Well, We will agree to disagree. some people are very content with thier lives & not making waves also very happy with the false freedoms they have while others can see through the smoke screen of totalitarianism that this country has become. The reason this country is so hopelessly lost is the fact it has been over 200 years since the law makers were warned with a rebellion..now they feel they are untouchable because they have passed so many laws in the last 200 years we are no longer a free people or a free country. They have legislated away our rights & given us Privilages, insane taxation, & 3 to 5 letter totalitarian beurocracratic agencies that rule every aspect of our lives. All we have now are shadows of the actual rights we once had with Big Brother watching us all the time.... Just look at the 2nd Ammendment, the right to keep & bear arms, shall not be infringed....but that has been perverted into a privillage ...fill out form 4473, wait for check, maybe you get the ok....if you a felon, no gun, restraining order your guns get taken away, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.....<<< What part of shall NOT INFRINGED did the law makers that passed these ANTI GUN laws not understand ?

If an insurrection ever become a reality ( God forbid :) )..it won't be squashed or Crushed quickly, Just who will do the squashing ? the police - they will be overwhelmed with in days , the Military ? they are so thinly stretched with world wide deployments they would be pretty useless as the Millions of armed people would overwhelm them too quite rapidly & half the troops would not fire on citizens, so who is left to stand against it a handfull of well armed citizens who think all is fine & dandy ?? & can quote Thomas Jefferson...it would quickly turn into a civil war as some of the Minority demographics would see this as an oppurtunity to loot , burn & pilliage ( just look at Katrina ) creating general chaos & it would last years. But it would create ALOT of manure for that Tree
 

scm54449

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
220
Location
Marshfield, WI
Well, We will agree to disagree.... others can see through the smoke screen of totalitarianism that this country has become...

I respectfully submit that your opinion and definition of what constitutes totalitarianism varies greatly from that of individuals I've spoken with who lived under the "reign" of Joseph Stalin.

Speaking of Russia, they have a total ban on handguns and a homicide rate that is quadruple that of the United States!!

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2782/is_2_30/ai_n29346290/?tag=content;col1
 

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
we repeal it or defeat it in the courts. .....OK..Don't bother waking up & seeing things as they really are just KEEP DREAMING , lol...There is not enough money in existence to pay the Lawyers or time enough in a hundred years to defeat every unconstitutional law that currently fills the 100 's of volumes of law books that make up this land of Laws... How can a people be free when their are hundreds of volumes of law books ? & how can they be free when many of those laws that have been in those books for many years are unconstitutional ? & how will those laws be defeated in the courts when the supreme court is hand picked by presidents that have agenda's & the same with the individual Justices who lean left or right while interpreting laws with their own agenda's ? Corrupt this nation & it's laws have become, while at the same time those that enforce the laws have become immune to prosecution.

You guys that believe this country is good to go, just keep smoking that hallucinogenic stuff....It's easier than seeing things for what they really ..


AND to the Moderator..you keep deleting certain post because they are talking about Illegal subject matter....If a founding father wrote it into one of the founding documents then Sir..How is it illegal ??? I will post for you to read something from one of our founding documents that spells out what the people are supposed to do when this Nation becomes untenable as this nation has become >>>>

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--




--Moderator Statement--
Those that have been around here for even a short time understand this:


ACCEPTANCE OF RULES
If you do not agree with any of these Rules then please do not use this site, because BY USING THIS SITE YOU WILL BE DEEMED TO HAVE IRREVOCABLY AGREED TO THESE RULES. Please note that these Rules may be revised and reissued without notice at any time. You should review the current Rules regularly, since your continued use of the site will be deemed as irrevocable acceptance of any revisions.
 
Last edited:

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
I respectfully submit that your opinion and definition of what constitutes totalitarianism varies greatly from that of individuals I've spoken with who lived under the "reign" of Joseph Stalin.

Speaking of Russia, they have a total ban on handguns and a homicide rate that is quadruple that of the United States!!

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_go2782/is_2_30/ai_n29346290/?tag=content;col1

new word for you .....Soft Tyranny......... when Gobernment agencies like the BATFE exist & are allowed to freely do the Illegal, TOTALITARIAN stuff they can do to people at will, then Sir..YES you live in a totalitarian Police state...I know the truth is depressing, shocking & frightening...BUT WAKE UP !
 

qball54208

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
288
Location
GREEN BAY, Wisconsin, USA
Let me shed some light upon this dismal and heavily debated issue of using your State issued ID card.
Since Bin Laden was killed, heighten awareness of ANY threat twords public area, such as a Court House in this case has been taken seriously.
Most especially Military Installations, I have had to use my ID card for regular entry to several, in the past it was not scrutinized. Now it is, I get why, so big deal if I must present an ID card to gain access.
The measures taken are realistic and necessary, disagree as you may, this is the new age we are living in. Given the past circumstances of the threats on the US and it Citizens from terrorists, this is what we will endure.
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Let me shed some light upon this dismal and heavily debated issue of using your State issued ID card.
Since Bin Laden was killed, heighten awareness of ANY threat twords public area, such as a Court House in this case has been taken seriously.
Most especially Military Installations, I have had to use my ID card for regular entry to several, in the past it was not scrutinized. Now it is, I get why, so big deal if I must present an ID card to gain access.
The measures taken are realistic and necessary, disagree as you may, this is the new age we are living in. Given the past circumstances of the threats on the US and it Citizens from terrorists, this is what we will endure.

Please show a law, in this case, a Federal law, that allows this.
 

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Please show a law, in this case, a Federal law, that allows this.

With ..Executive orders the president can go around the Congress &the senate...Executive order..stroke of the pen , law of the land...I doubt our founding fathers EVER envisioned any of this, but if they were alive today..they would be planning something big... Those that trade freedom for security deserve neither....
 
Last edited:

scm54449

Opt-Out Members
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
220
Location
Marshfield, WI
new word for you .....Soft Tyranny......... when Gobernment agencies like the BATFE exist & are allowed to freely do the Illegal, TOTALITARIAN stuff they can do to people at will, then Sir..YES you live in a totalitarian Police state...I know the truth is depressing, shocking & frightening...BUT WAKE UP !

Civil language cannot express my sentiments regarding the BATF. That said, I am humbled, speechless, I daresay flat-out gob-smacked at having exchanged posts with the only individual on this forum who possesses the one, clear vision of truth and reality in our country. Unfortunately, you are not the first individual on this forum to claim that status.
 

qball54208

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
288
Location
GREEN BAY, Wisconsin, USA
Paul, I have not researched any Federal Laws at this point, however, I do know that showing an ID card to access Federal/Government property and/or buildings has drastically changed post 9/11. I am aware, as EVERYONE should be today, that the death of Bin Laden has put ALL human beings, everywhere in the World at some kind of risk.
Opinions abound Pro & Con on this issue, I did not post my comment to get into a ******* contest w/anyone.

I swore an Oath when I Enlisted into the Military, To uphold the Constitution of the United States...
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Paul, I have not researched any Federal Laws at this point, however, I do know that showing an ID card to access Federal/Government property and/or buildings has drastically changed post 9/11. I am aware, as EVERYONE should be today, that the death of Bin Laden has put ALL human beings, everywhere in the World at some kind of risk.
Opinions abound Pro & Con on this issue, I did not post my comment to get into a ******* contest w/anyone.

I swore an Oath when I Enlisted into the Military, To uphold the Constitution of the United States...

I understand the cause of the restrictions, I am just saying that they have no basis in law and need to be challenged.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin

We need to go back to pre-9/11 days. The terrorists have won. They have made us give up liberty, they have made us go broke. I'm sure just before Osama had a taxpayer financed bullet go through his brain, he was chuckling to himself.
 

eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Let me shed some light upon this dismal and heavily debated issue of using your State issued ID card.
Since Bin Laden was killed, heighten awareness of ANY threat twords public area, such as a Court House in this case has been taken seriously.
Most especially Military Installations, I have had to use my ID card for regular entry to several, in the past it was not scrutinized. Now it is, I get why, so big deal if I must present an ID card to gain access.
The measures taken are realistic and necessary, disagree as you may, this is the new age we are living in. Given the past circumstances of the threats on the US and it Citizens from terrorists, this is what we will endure.

Military installations are not open to the public. Courts are supposed to be. It is appropriate to identify the person to whom the privilege of an invitation is extended. It is not appropriate (and unconstitutional) to require a person exercising his rights to produce his "papers."
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
.............--Moderator Deleted--

WE ADVOCATE FOR THE 'LAW-ABIDING' ONLY: Posts advocating illegal acts of any kind are NOT welcome here. Even if you feel that a law is unconstitutional we do not break it, we repeal it or defeat it in the courts.


Yeah, what he said...

Because that tactic worked so well for the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s, and Women's Suffrage movement, and the anti-Prohibitionists, and the Colonial Founding Fathers, and the anti-Apartheid activists in South Africa, and the White Rose Society...
 

NavyMike

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
195
Location
Eastside, Washington, USA
ID Papers will not prevent a terrorist attack

Let me shed some light upon this dismal and heavily debated issue of using your State issued ID card.
Since Bin Laden was killed, heighten awareness of ANY threat twords public area, such as a Court House in this case has been taken seriously.
Most especially Military Installations, I have had to use my ID card for regular entry to several, in the past it was not scrutinized. Now it is, I get why, so big deal if I must present an ID card to gain access.
The measures taken are realistic and necessary, disagree as you may, this is the new age we are living in. Given the past circumstances of the threats on the US and it Citizens from terrorists, this is what we will endure.

Because asking for ID papers would have prevented the 911 attacks or will prevent another attack from taking place? :banghead:

Fourteen of 15 [Of the 911] operatives and all of the pilots acquired one or multiple forms of U.S. state-issued identification.

Source: www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrTrav_Ch2.pdf
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Because asking for ID papers would have prevented the 911 attacks or will prevent another attack from taking place? :banghead:

Fourteen of 15 [Of the 911] operatives and all of the pilots acquired one or multiple forms of U.S. state-issued identification.

Source: www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrTrav_Ch2.pdf

Pretty good point. So we can ad to saying "criminals carry concealed" that "criminals carry I.D." :p
 
Top