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Thread: Rights v Responsibilities

  1. #1
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Rights v Responsibilities

    My only question is... was someone here the OCer??

    http://www.ourmidland.com/opinion/ar...cc4c002e0.html
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member Vmaxx's Avatar
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    I was in this store the Friday before Easter. Was shopping for about 1 1/2 hours with no issues.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Obviously not a well written or well balanced article. I however like the comments. You have ignorant CC ONLY's (!) and other FUD's, and the person the article is written about comes on and defends himself, very well shooting them down (yup pun intended). My favorite is GRAMPS BTW, he is silly, and just completely ignores all reason and logic, and just responds to what he wants, at least the other FUD's, somewhat try.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
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    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Cop never mentioned that the person can open carry in all those places and why not educate the daughter? The idiot from this article doesn't even have an understanding of how many ppl open carry and the fact that in Michigan its fairly accepted.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Quote Originally Posted by xmanhockey7 View Post
    Cop never mentioned that the person can open carry in all those places and why not educate the daughter? The idiot from this article doesn't even have an understanding of how many ppl open carry and the fact that in Michigan its fairly accepted.
    Sure was crafty the way they quoted the little girl.
    I'll bet the kid never said anything!

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Yes, once again there were so many balls dropped the author of the story couldn't stay on his literary feet! A very short look on this site or MOC's and he would have had all the TRUE info he could ever need. Hmm do you think a little personal opinion may have snaked its way into his "article"?
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    From the article:
    [Christine] Tudor isnt afraid of guns, she said. In fact, she grew up in a household around weapons . . . But . . .

    [Midland Police Chief Gerald Ladwig:] Im a firm believer in the Second Amendment, but . . .
    Anti-gunners are easy to spot. One of the things they do is preface their anti-gun mentality with some pro-gun lip service. The word "but" is where the anti-gun idiocy begins.

    I don't know which is more stupid: their blatantly obvious lying or their thinking we don't see it.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    I respect the rights of hunters and sportsmen............ Yea, when you respect the rights of hunters you lose my vote, as I am intelligent enough to read between the lines. I posted my soapbox reply on the news site after registering, I won't repeat it here, as I presume most here feel the same way I do, lol.

    I do like how the Sheriff briefly mentions you can carry in those places when licensed, but seriously focused on the right of the business owner to ask anyone they want to leave. Gee, I wonder what his personal views of guns in the hands of the public really are.

    I do wonder though if that waistband gun was holstered, I have a feeling it was a IWB holster, but the woman describes it similar to Mexican Carry.

  9. #9
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Slightly off topic, but in Delhi Twp, near Lansing, they are considering adopting an ordinance regarding the discharge of guns, bows, slingshots, bb guns, etc in the Twp... based on a busy body woman who was "scared" by her neighbor practicing with his bow and the 32 signatures she got on a petition. This is in a place populated by 20k. Makes sense to me...

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    Discharge is not covered by preemption, this has to be, and should be fought against.

  11. #11
    Regular Member HKcarrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Discharge is not covered by preemption, this has to be, and should be fought against.


    I shoudl have explained myself a bit better... the point of bringing up the reference was people getting all willy nilly becuase they're "scared".... and the elected officials snapping to...

    But I realize you are correct on both points... and I'm guessing it will be fought and defeated. Who knows though these days!

  12. #12
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northofnowhere View Post

    I do wonder though if that waistband gun was holstered, I have a feeling it was a IWB holster, but the woman describes it similar to Mexican Carry.
    "Mexican Carry" is just basically any form of CC. Not CC without a holster. It comes from back in the day of cowboys, riding around the west, we in the US have the 2nd amendment, protecting the right to carry. Well Mexico did not, and they outlawed it, so Mexican Cowboys, would CC, instead of OC, so they wouldn't be hassled by their form of LEOs. Hence "Mexican Carry".
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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  13. #13
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    "Mexican Carry" is just basically any form of CC. Not CC without a holster. It comes from back in the day of cowboys, riding around the west, we in the US have the 2nd amendment, protecting the right to carry. Well Mexico did not, and they outlawed it, so Mexican Cowboys, would CC, instead of OC, so they wouldn't be hassled by their form of LEOs. Hence "Mexican Carry".
    Citation please. I want to use it.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Citation please. I want to use it.
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_n8591504/
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  15. #15
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    I don't know how much I like this article, it goes to the fact of what happened, and tells you that they CC. Then when they are done with telling the history, they assume they never used holsters, not actually citing whether they did or not. Now I am curious. I honestly don't see Mexican Cowboys, riding horses, walking around all day, CC without a holster (revolvers no less) and not shooting themselves at least once a day (especially using 19th century revolvers).
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  16. #16
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    I don't know how much I like this article, it goes to the fact of what happened, and tells you that they CC. Then when they are done with telling the history, they assume they never used holsters, not actually citing whether they did or not. Now I am curious. I honestly don't see Mexican Cowboys, riding horses, walking around all day, CC without a holster (revolvers no less) and not shooting themselves at least once a day (especially using 19th century revolvers).

    They carried them hammer down on an empty chamber.. and in fact very few cowboys used holsters either they just stuck it behind their belt crossdraw. Almost none carried in a strongside holster as is depicted in the movies. If they did use a holster it was usually a vertical shoulder holster or a crossdraw holster.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  17. #17
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Well, what's the authors cite to a historic document. I can write articles all day and never make a citation to some reference...doesn't mean I'm correct or accurate.

    It would be nice to have some contemporary documents referencing this term and practice.

    I haven't found one yet.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  18. #18
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    interesting. It was my impression that Mexican carry referred to no holster in the pants of belt. Googling brings back results that seem most folk agree with my thoughts on what it is as well.

  19. #19
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    They carried them hammer down on an empty chamber.. and in fact very few cowboys used holsters either they just stuck it behind their belt crossdraw. Almost none carried in a strongside holster as is depicted in the movies. If they did use a holster it was usually a vertical shoulder holster or a crossdraw holster.
    This makes sense, and I trust and believe you. Now if we could ever find a cite.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    They carried them hammer down on an empty chamber.. and in fact very few cowboys used holsters either they just stuck it behind their belt crossdraw. Almost none carried in a strongside holster as is depicted in the movies. If they did use a holster it was usually a vertical shoulder holster or a crossdraw holster.
    makes sense. when i have my ruger security-six 6" .357 holstered, it's always cross-draw. otherwise you have to chicken-wing the gun almost to your armpit to get it out of the holster. it's a much more fluid motion to cross-draw it.

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    Thumbs up

    congrats SLM.

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