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Thread: Starter Guns

  1. #1
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Starter Guns

    If we can't bring guns on campus, how come they can "shoot a gun" to start my kids track run? I know it's a "starter gun", but it has no orange tip or anything. If my kids or myself brought a "starter gun" on campus we would end up with chrome bracelets. How is it OK for them? I've had my kid suspended for nail clippers, because of the no weapon tolerence policy, so I'm screaming hypocrisy. Anybody feeling my pain?
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    My wife and I attended a play at the high school last friday. The end scene a student actor fired a starter pistol as part of the play. I raised this same question but could not get an answer. Yet draw a picture of a firearm or ammo and you are gone.

  3. #3
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    A starter pistol is not a firearm according to Washington State definition as a dangerous weapon.

    RCW 9.41.280
    Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.


    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (b) Any other dangerous weapon as defined in RCW 9.41.250;
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    Regular Member tombrewster421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    A starter pistol is not a firearm according to Washington State definition as a dangerous weapon.

    RCW 9.41.280
    Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.


    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (b) Any other dangerous weapon as defined in RCW 9.41.250;
    A toy G.I. Joe gun is not a dangerous weapon either, but an elementary school boy got EPELLED for bringing one to school. After all it may not be dangerous, but it is a gun. Zero tolerance!

    Talk about hipocritical. Our children are indoctrinated to be tolerant of others to a fault, in a building that says "zero tolerance" on a sign at the door.
    Guns don't kill people, bullets do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tombrewster421 View Post
    A toy G.I. Joe gun is not a dangerous weapon either, but an elementary school boy got EPELLED for bringing one to school. After all it may not be dangerous, but it is a gun. Zero tolerance!

    Talk about hipocritical. Our children are indoctrinated to be tolerant of others to a fault, in a building that says "zero tolerance" on a sign at the door.
    Thats not by law though. It is by policy that usually has exceptions for things the district deems OK.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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  6. #6
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    From my understanding concerning toy guns and such is school district policy and expulsion from there.

    WAC 392-400-225
    School district rules defining misconduct — Distribution of rules.


    RCW 28A.600.010
    Enforcement of rules of conduct — Due process guarantees — Computation of days for short-term and long-term suspensions.


    RCW 9.41.280
    Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions.

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (a) Any firearm;

    RCW 9.41.010 Terms defined.


    Unless the context clearly requires otherwise, the definitions in this section apply throughout this chapter.

    (7) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.
    Last edited by BigDave; 05-25-2011 at 07:25 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  7. #7
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    The term “firearm” is defined in the Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(3), to include (A) any weapon (including a starter gun), which will, or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon….

  8. #8
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I am amazed Washington Ceasefire, or the Brady Campaign to prevent gun ownership hasnt already taken care of this, or at least the liberal Mom's and Dad's, Just because it resembles a gun.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    In some states a toy or look alike is enough to qualify - even BB or airsoft can be so considered. Think about it - you can put someone in fear of their life with a non-firing replica.
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  10. #10
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    The term “firearm” is defined in the Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(3), to include (A) any weapon (including a starter gun), which will, or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon….
    Do you feel these definitions are interchangeable between U.S.C. and RCW ?
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

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    About 6 years ago I was at a track meet at Rogers High School in Spokane in a crowd of parents and kids when a teacher I did not know walked out of the crowd about 15 feet in front of me with a starters pistol held down at his side. My immediate reaction was to stop him and I almost did until one of the kids asked a question about how much time he had till his event. At 1st glance I thought it was a snub nose 38 at second glance it was a starters pistol. If he had been closer the outcome may have been different, I have wondered what SPD's take on that would have been. At all the other track meets I had been at that year the starters wore a bright safety orange sleave on their arm.

  12. #12
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    In some states a toy or look alike is enough to qualify - even BB or airsoft can be so considered. Think about it - you can put someone in fear of their life with a non-firing replica.
    Don't overlook "Doodles" that look like guns. Kids have been expelled for doing just that, doodling shapes that look like guns.

    Makes one wonder just how intelligent our future generations will be with Teachers like that molding their brains.
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  13. #13
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Orange

    Snip
    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan View Post
    At all the other track meets I had been at that year the starters wore a bright safety orange sleave on their arm.
    So I can OC on campus if I have an orange sleeve on my strong side? Sarcasm off.
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  14. #14
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave View Post
    Do you feel these definitions are interchangeable between U.S.C. and RCW ?
    No.

    RCW 9.41.280 says...
    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:
    (a) Any firearm;

    But...
    RCW 9.41.010 defines a firearm as:
    (7) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.


    by definition of the 18 USC 921 a starter gun is a firearm.
    (3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
    (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;


    However let's go back to RCW 9.41.280
    (5) Subsection (1)(f)(i) of this section does not apply to any person who possesses a device listed in subsection (1)(f)(i) of this section, if the device is possessed and used solely for the purpose approved by a school for use in a school authorized event, lecture, or activity conducted on the school premises.

    The Tacoma School district has the following info available:
    Fake weapons or props for such activities as school plays, approved presentations or military displays are permissible with express advance written permission of the building administrator.

    Last edited by Bill Starks; 05-26-2011 at 02:19 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    However let's go back to RCW 9.41.280
    (5) Subsection (1)(f)(i) of this section does not apply to any person who possesses a device listed in subsection (1)(f)(i) of this section, if the device is possessed and used solely for the purpose approved by a school for use in a school authorized event, lecture, or activity conducted on the school premises.
    9.41.280(1)(f)(i) seems to only apply to stun guns and tasers.

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (f)(i) Any portable device manufactured to function as a weapon and which is commonly known as a stun gun, including a projectile stun gun which projects wired probes that are attached to the device that emit an electrical charge designed to administer to a person or an animal an electric shock, charge, or impulse; or
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  16. #16
    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    9.41.280(1)(f)(i) seems to only apply to stun guns and tasers.

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (f)(i) Any portable device manufactured to function as a weapon and which is commonly known as a stun gun, including a projectile stun gun which projects wired probes that are attached to the device that emit an electrical charge designed to administer to a person or an animal an electric shock, charge, or impulse; or
    This is how I read it as well so I did not quote but still wondering why was even brought into the discussion as it applies to USC not the RCW's
    by definition of the 18 USC 921 a starter gun is a firearm.
    (3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
    (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
    Going by the RCW Definition ((7) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.), starter pistol or any other item that does not shoot a projectile is not considered a dangerous weapon.
    Last edited by BigDave; 05-26-2011 at 02:43 PM.
    • Being prepared is to prepare, this is our responsibility.
    • I am not your Mommy or Daddy and do not sugar coat it but I will tell you simply as how I see it, it is up to you on how you will or will not use it.
    • IANAL, all information I present is for your review, do your own homework.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    Snip
    So I can OC on campus if I have an orange sleeve on my strong side? Sarcasm off.
    Why yes, yes you can OC if you have an orange sleave, I'm pretty sure the orange sleave defence wont help you with the LEOs or the Judge. But maybe just maybe it will impress your new room mate Bubba.

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Are we missing....

    this....
    RCW 9.41.280
    Possessing dangerous weapons on school facilities — Penalty — Exceptions

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (a) Any firearm;

    (b) Any other dangerous weapon as defined in RCW 9.41.250;
    <snip>
    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (5) Subsection (1)(f)(i) of this section does not apply to any person who possesses a device listed in subsection (1)(f)(i) of this section, if the device is possessed and used solely for the purpose approved by a school for use in a school authorized event, lecture, or activity conducted on the school premises.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    this....
    Section (1)(f)(i) only pertains to stun guns and tasers. It has no applicability of any kind to a firearm or starter gun.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  20. #20
    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I know if my daughter were to get expelled from school for drawing a gun, or pointing a finger gun at someone in play, I would have to personally thank the principal for making my daughter leave a school that has such ingnorant people employeed there. I would be very appreciative of them not instilling their ingnoramous ideas in my daughter.
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