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Thread: OC encounter OOB PD.

  1. #1
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    OC encounter OOB PD.

    So i work in OOB. carry all day at work. to-from-to ect.

    was walking on West Grand from one resort to the other, OCing my S&W 6904, strongside in a black leather beltslide. spare mag on my left. Also carrying Hedge Clippers and a trowel.

    get around the Barritz motel and hear the chirp of a patrol car behind me. i stop. an officer steps out, walks up to me and says *following convo*

    Officer: is that a gun?
    Me: yep sure is
    Officer: is it real?
    Me: would be kind of stupid if it were wood eh?
    Officer: HAHA yeah i guess it would. is it a smith and wesson?
    Me: yep, 6904 9mm
    Officer : NO WAY!
    Me: yep sure is
    Officer: we were issued those from 1993-2001 when we transitioned to Glocks, never thought i would see one again.
    Me: kinda hard to find these days
    Officer: whered ya get it?
    Me: KTP. $295 +tax with 2 mags.
    Officer: nice deal. mind if i check your ID? see if you are a terrorist or from canada? haha

    after the cordial convo on my S&W i decided to let him check my ID, NTM im at work and did not want to protest on company time.

    checks my id , comes back good. shakes my hand and says

    "dont let me catch you with anything fake without an orange tip, OC is legal, but we dont like airsoft much" smiles and is on his way.

    I have decided i like OOB PD. Seem to be up to date on the laws and have no issues with OC +1 for them
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Nice! Glad OOBPD was in such good spirits and up to date on the law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PiercedMaineOC View Post
    Nice! Glad OOBPD was in such good spirits and up to date on the law.
    nice guy too! told me OOB fully respects OCers and welcomes them :-)
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I fully understand the cooperative attitude with Officer Friendly. Still it rankles me greatly that there is no RAS to stop and ID check you and yet they do - managing to turn it into a consensual thing.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I agree with grapeshot. Although it was a great encounter and OOB PD has obviously been re-trained on the simple fact that OC is legal since Boyscouts incident, the fact remains that they shouldn't stop you for any reason whatsoever. OC is not a legal reason to stop someone or even ask for Identification.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanebelanger View Post
    I agree with grapeshot. Although it was a great encounter and OOB PD has obviously been re-trained on the simple fact that OC is legal since Boyscouts incident, the fact remains that they shouldn't stop you for any reason whatsoever. OC is not a legal reason to stop someone or even ask for Identification.
    right on!!!

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    Perfect police work. At no time was he detained. It was a purely consensual encounter. I probably would have let him see my ID as well once he had built the repore with me.

    Remember, a police officer can initiate a consensual encounter with anyone for no reason whatsoever. Carry for Myself was free to leave at any time and chose to stay as I probably would have as well if I had a cop basically "talking shop" with me.

    Well done Carry for Myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanebelanger View Post
    I agree with grapeshot. Although it was a great encounter and OOB PD has obviously been re-trained on the simple fact that OC is legal since Boyscouts incident, the fact remains that they shouldn't stop you for any reason whatsoever. OC is not a legal reason to stop someone or even ask for Identification.
    They didn't stop him though, he was free to go at any time, they merely asked him a question which he chose to reply to. This is how police work is supposed to be conducted and I applaud OOB PD for their manner of investigation.

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    He kept saying "Eh" so it was probable that he was an illegal alien from Canada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I am very confused. Exactly WHAT was there to investigate? Exactly WHY are we applauding the police for investigating a law abiding person walking down the street regardless of how polite they are during the investigation?
    The officer wanted to check and see if there was any outstanding warrants or bail conditions. He can do that to ANY person walking anywhere with no suspicion of anything as long as it's in the form of a request and the person requested is free to refuse the request and leave if they so choose. No detainment occurred. It was a friendly conversation which both parties chose to partake in.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    The officer wanted to check and see if there was any outstanding warrants or bail conditions. He can do that to ANY person walking anywhere with no suspicion of anything as long as it's in the form of a request and the person requested is free to refuse the request and leave if they so choose. No detainment occurred. It was a friendly conversation which both parties chose to partake in.
    Understand consensual conversations. Do not understand harassment even when done in a friendly manner.

    Ask yourself this question. Would he have been stopped and checked if he had not been carrying a gun? The point is not whether the OCer or the LEO have a right to engage in such conversation.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    I still don't understand why LEOs want to stop an old guy walking his dog and question him. They should be giving thumbs up and tipping their hat. The old dude is not an alpha male challenger, he is probably more experienced than the LEO and possibly a veteran.

    It's just a colossal waste of time that could be better spent exercising the donut hook maneuver.

    Making the person mess with their gun is an invitation to a ND as well. I'd like LEOs to USE the common sense that years on the job gives them and support the constitution which they vow to uphold and support.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    Officer: nice deal. mind if i check your ID? see if you are a terrorist or from canada? haha

    after the cordial convo on my S&W i decided to let him check my ID, NTM im at work and did not want to protest on company time.

    checks my id , comes back good. shakes my hand and says
    aaaarghhhh. God I hate this, but he was so nice when he asked, I couldn't say no. I wish all the girls I was nice too had felt the same...

    Nice has nothing to do with this other than it's a strategy. His whole goal was to soften you up to get you to comply with his REQUEST.

    It's this passive ignorant compliance that has lead us where we are in regards to the ever growing powers of LE.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    strategy

    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    aaaarghhhh. God I hate this, but he was so nice when he asked, I couldn't say no. I wish all the girls I was nice too had felt the same...

    Nice has nothing to do with this other than it's a strategy. His whole goal was to soften you up to get you to comply with his REQUEST.

    It's this passive ignorant compliance that has lead us where we are in regards to the ever growing powers of LE.
    A strategy is a strategy. A job is a job. No, he probably wouldn't have stopped him if he wasn't carrying. Was it bad form to stop him? A little, yeah. However, if there is someone walking down the street Open Carrying with shears looking tired from a hard day at work in the heat...who is to say he isn't super angry about something about wants to go confront his boss? Yes, people who OC basically are law abiding people. But eventually the wrong people will catch on and OC because they think they'll be pegged as a decent guy and will avoid anything other than a 'hey, what's up, that's a great firearm, mind if I check your ID?'

    He has a right to ask what's up and to see your ID...We have the right to say no and walk away. I don't see it as ignorance that we comply with the police when we don't have to. It's better to be comfortable and friendly than rude just because you know you don't have to comply. You going to blow by that car on the side street that you saw waiting for 5 minutes to get out or you going to let them out in front of you? It's your right to do either...ignorance has nothing to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    aaaarghhhh. God I hate this, but he was so nice when he asked, I couldn't say no. I wish all the girls I was nice too had felt the same...

    Nice has nothing to do with this other than it's a strategy. His whole goal was to soften you up to get you to comply with his REQUEST.

    It's this passive ignorant compliance that has lead us where we are in regards to the ever growing powers of LE.


    No. was totally my CHOICE to give him my ID. my CHOICE to even stop walking, or admit he was there. however i was on the clock , at work *which chooses* to allow to me to carry at work, and chooses even more to allow me to do it openly.

    i could have Chosen to ignore him, and chosen to pick a battle and not show ID. he asked, did not demand. as same as i allowed and did not refuse.

    my reasoning was i was at work, and choosing a battle at work would have been bad for my job. now if he had demanded ID and FORCEFULLY stopped me, i would have said no, as i have many times.

    OC is legal but we all know it is a battle and an UP HILL one......we all choose our own battles, i chose to not battle and to cooperate with the soul purpose of gaining LEO relations and keeping my job.

    he was doing his job, i was respecting mine. that simple. i hold no anger, or judgement on him for doing what he did. as he held no judgement on me for my choice to carry.

    if we fight every cop that stops us they will never respect us, and if every citizen sees us arguing and disrespecting officers....they will all fear us.

    chose your battles. and only put up a fight when needed. :-)
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    No. was totally my CHOICE to give him my ID. my CHOICE to even stop walking, or admit he was there. however i was on the clock , at work *which chooses* to allow to me to carry at work, and chooses even more to allow me to do it openly.

    i could have Chosen to ignore him, and chosen to pick a battle and not show ID. he asked, did not demand. as same as i allowed and did not refuse.

    my reasoning was i was at work, and choosing a battle at work would have been bad for my job. now if he had demanded ID and FORCEFULLY stopped me, i would have said no, as i have many times.

    OC is legal but we all know it is a battle and an UP HILL one......we all choose our own battles, i chose to not battle and to cooperate with the soul purpose of gaining LEO relations and keeping my job.

    he was doing his job, i was respecting mine. that simple. i hold no anger, or judgement on him for doing what he did. as he held no judgement on me for my choice to carry.

    if we fight every cop that stops us they will never respect us, and if every citizen sees us arguing and disrespecting officers....they will all fear us.

    chose your battles. and only put up a fight when needed. :-)
    Indeed choose your battles wisely. Same advice comes from User, our number one, go to, favorite attorney in this part of the country. Practicality is sometimes the very best option. With your circumstances, you made the best decision for yourself.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    They didn't stop him though, he was free to go at any time, they merely asked him a question which he chose to reply to. This is how police work is supposed to be conducted and I applaud OOB PD for their manner of investigation.
    How do you know that "he was free to go at any time", if that was never asked.. or leaving was never attempted?

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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    No. was totally my CHOICE to give him my ID. my CHOICE to even stop walking, or admit he was there. however i was on the clock , at work *which chooses* to allow to me to carry at work, and chooses even more to allow me to do it openly.

    i could have Chosen to ignore him, and chosen to pick a battle and not show ID. he asked, did not demand. as same as i allowed and did not refuse.

    my reasoning was i was at work, and choosing a battle at work would have been bad for my job. now if he had demanded ID and FORCEFULLY stopped me, i would have said no, as i have many times.

    OC is legal but we all know it is a battle and an UP HILL one......we all choose our own battles, i chose to not battle and to cooperate with the soul purpose of gaining LEO relations and keeping my job.

    he was doing his job, i was respecting mine. that simple. i hold no anger, or judgement on him for doing what he did. as he held no judgement on me for my choice to carry.

    if we fight every cop that stops us they will never respect us, and if every citizen sees us arguing and disrespecting officers....they will all fear us.

    chose your battles. and only put up a fight when needed. :-)
    And as long as it remains a free choice, I support anything the officers choose. That's the glory of our nation. The officer is free to ask just as much as the citizen is free to cooperate or refuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blk97F150 View Post
    How do you know that "he was free to go at any time", if that was never asked.. or leaving was never attempted?
    That he was free to go was implied by the manner of the officer's questions and demeanor. If at any point it is made clear that he is NOT free to go, then a detainment has occurred and the officer would at that time need RAS. If the subject makes no attempt to leave and the officer makes no attempt to force the person to remain, then it's implied that the person was able to leave if he chose to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boyscout399 View Post
    That he was free to go was implied by the manner of the officer's questions and demeanor. If at any point it is made clear that he is NOT free to go, then a detainment has occurred and the officer would at that time need RAS. If the subject makes no attempt to leave and the officer makes no attempt to force the person to remain, then it's implied that the person was able to leave if he chose to.
    exactly. he never stated to me "your being detained" or "your not going anywhere" from the first word out of his mouth, he was friendly, polite and spoke to me as just another guy, not a criminal or a suspect. i know i was free to leave because he never attempted to bar me, i even rested my hand on my weapon as i leaned against a telephone poll much as he was doing, he didnt even skip a beat or seem nervous at all. felt like a friendly chat to me.

    now if he had approached me saying "you there, dont move, lets see some ID". i would have asserted my rights and put up a struggle. but as i said i chose my battle. which i do every time im stopped, lots of variables govern how i react. and this one needed no reaction :-)
    i would rather run out of blood, breath and life. and die fighting. than run out of ammo , and die with my pants down -Tom Scantas

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    Quote Originally Posted by carry for myself View Post
    No. was totally my CHOICE to give him my ID. my CHOICE to even stop walking, or admit he was there. however i was on the clock , at work *which chooses* to allow to me to carry at work, and chooses even more to allow me to do it openly.

    i could have Chosen to ignore him, and chosen to pick a battle and not show ID. he asked, did not demand. as same as i allowed and did not refuse.

    my reasoning was i was at work, and choosing a battle at work would have been bad for my job. now if he had demanded ID and FORCEFULLY stopped me, i would have said no, as i have many times.

    OC is legal but we all know it is a battle and an UP HILL one......we all choose our own battles, i chose to not battle and to cooperate with the soul purpose of gaining LEO relations and keeping my job.

    he was doing his job, i was respecting mine. that simple. i hold no anger, or judgement on him for doing what he did. as he held no judgement on me for my choice to carry.

    if we fight every cop that stops us they will never respect us, and if every citizen sees us arguing and disrespecting officers....they will all fear us.

    chose your battles. and only put up a fight when needed. :-)
    I never said be rude, many people think that when it''s suggested to not show ID that it somehow rude. I can smile and be as sweet and nice as your LEO was to you.

    The point is as long as every CITIZEN does what the LEO's want us to do every-time they ask, then their power grows and dare I say they become emboldened, and the CITIZENS rights diminish.

    And to your bolded comment above. If every cop WOULDN'T stop a CITIZEN lawfully going about their business we wouldn't have to show anything and the whole discussion becomes moot.
    Last edited by Venator; 05-27-2011 at 01:02 PM.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    And yet if every cop discontinued to stop people to question them how many actual criminals may get by? Like I said earlier...sooner or later it will happen...some smart gang kid will get the idea to open carry and know his rights inside out and an officer will see him, nod and smile knowing it's perfectly legal to open carry...and the kid will go shoot someone. Has it happened? Doubt it. Could it? Yep. I'd prefer those cops who know it's legal and will ask just to get gauge a reaction. politely tell him no or politely tell him yes...but I'd rather him ask the OC guy who starts to sweat and fumble and become aware of this guy rather than just let him walk on by. Let them chit chat, let them ask, let them say 'have a nice day' when you politely refuse them. I see no harm in that situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cllmecrazy View Post
    And yet if every cop discontinued to stop people to question them how many actual criminals may get by? Like I said earlier...sooner or later it will happen...some smart gang kid will get the idea to open carry and know his rights inside out and an officer will see him, nod and smile knowing it's perfectly legal to open carry...and the kid will go shoot someone. Has it happened? Doubt it. Could it? Yep. I'd prefer those cops who know it's legal and will ask just to get gauge a reaction. politely tell him no or politely tell him yes...but I'd rather him ask the OC guy who starts to sweat and fumble and become aware of this guy rather than just let him walk on by. Let them chit chat, let them ask, let them say 'have a nice day' when you politely refuse them. I see no harm in that situation.
    If the smart kid gang member knows his rights inside and out the cop asking will be of no avail because he'll ............ wait for it .......... just assert his rights and not show ID to the cops.

    Did I miss something or was your example pointless and without merit?

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    It was an example of which I'd say you missed the point. I'll word it without an example. My opinion is that I feel safer knowing that a cop is paying attention and starting friendly conversation.

    You don't know his motive for asking for ID, I don't know his motive. Only he does. Should he have asked? No? Well, does that then mean that if someone who is open carrying shoots someone or something out of anger it is perfectly acceptable that the cop who walked by him minutes before just nodded or would some of us silently wonder why on earth that cop didn't stop to talk to him even just to ask what firearm he had on today. IF cops started ignoring all of us...not just the good guys would OC anymore.

    This isn't one sided. When one side stops caring and gives way there are consequences. This is give and take. Not all take and not all give. We can't stop giving cops a hard time for forcing us to give ID but cops shouldn't stop at least asking either. I'd prefer they care enough to ask. That's what I'm trying to say. I believe every opinion has merit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    What's wrong with cops stopping and investigating people who are acting suspicious? Buying groceries in a grocery store is not suspicious activity.... last time I checked, that what people do in grocery stores. I would prefer that cops spend their time and our tax dollars (their salaries) investigating crimes...not people buying groceries in grocery stores.
    I would prefer they spend their time investigating crimes, but there isn't always a crime. We're paying them to drive around the block to deter crime. So if they're around doing nothing anyway...I'd rather have a chat with them and talk about what I'm carrying and my right to carry rather than have them chit chatting with each other about the weather over coffee in a random parking lot.

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