Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: Open carry Question

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2

    Open carry Question

    I'm new and haven't seen anything like this posted, so I'm looking for some help. After one of my friends got stopped and dissarmed by plain clothes police officer(who didn't identify himself btw) I decided to call the county sheriffs office and ask if there was any local prohibitions on open carry. Now I would say that I have done my fair share of research into firearms laws, but this sheriff started to try and feed me bull about having to REGISTER with the state of North Carolina in order to legally open carry. I have never heard of having to register to open carry, to conceal carry yes I know you must have a permit. Can anyone give me references or some insight into this. And I already have the NC Firearms laws printed out sitting in front me and can't find anything.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    , North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by sickoneinc View Post
    I'm new and haven't seen anything like this posted, so I'm looking for some help. After one of my friends got stopped and dissarmed by plain clothes police officer(who didn't identify himself btw) I decided to call the county sheriffs office and ask if there was any local prohibitions on open carry. Now I would say that I have done my fair share of research into firearms laws, but this sheriff started to try and feed me bull about having to REGISTER with the state of North Carolina in order to legally open carry. I have never heard of having to register to open carry, to conceal carry yes I know you must have a permit. Can anyone give me references or some insight into this. And I already have the NC Firearms laws printed out sitting in front me and can't find anything.
    There is no registration required to OC. You can't find it because we don't have laws saying what you can do, laws say what you cannot do. Since there are no laws on the books saying you cannot OC, that means you can. Since there are no laws saying you have to register, you do not have to. The deputy you talked to has no idea what he/she was talking about. What sheriffs office was this? Maybe a call to GRNC could help get this fixed?

    Read over the NC flyer, http://forums.opencarry.org/forums/s...na-Flyer/page3 it should help to answer any questions you have.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Duceforty22's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    8
    Welcome i am new here as well, and yea i haven't read anywhere about having to register anything. But i wonder what that form is that i have to fill out every time i buy a gun and i have my cc permit.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    , North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by Duceforty22 View Post
    Welcome i am new here as well, and yea i haven't read anywhere about having to register anything. But i wonder what that form is that i have to fill out every time i buy a gun and i have my cc permit.
    I forget what the form is called, but if memory serves it is used to trace the gun back to the original purchaser. It is kept in the gun stores possession. If the gun is in a crime or stolen and then found, they trace the serial number back to the manufacture, they then trace who they sold it to, and then the gun store provides the ATF with the information on who bought it. If the number is filed off they trace it using the ballistics from the gun when the manufacturer test fired it and sent in the bullet for the atf's record. It is not required to fill out in order to open carry. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
    Last edited by jag06; 05-25-2011 at 07:38 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2
    Thanks, that what i thought and I knew he's wrong. The county is Onslow. I am going to see about them having the correct info, what is GRNC?

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    , North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by sickoneinc View Post
    Thanks, that what i thought and I knew he's wrong. The county is Onslow. I am going to see about them having the correct info, what is GRNC?
    Grass Roots North Carolina, http://grnc.org/

  7. #7
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    If someone in plain clothes attempted to disarm me (or even verbally engage me purporting to be an LEO) while I was OCing but refused to indentify himself or produce valid LE credentials, I would be dialing 911 on my phone IMMEDIATELY--right after I took his picture with my phone--to verify that he was, in fact, an LEO.

    Any reasonable plainclothes cop would produce ID at the start of an encounter with an armed citizen. Anyone who doesn't have their badge showing AT THE BEGINNING of the encounter is either a BG posing as a cop, an a$$hat posing as a cop, or a bad cop.

    And ANY of those three is potentially VERY dangerous for an OCer.

    Voice recorders, people, where are your voice recorders? And smart phones with cameras are a REALLY good idea too...

    Recording and photography is NOT a crime. In fact, it can SAVE YOUR BACON!!!

    Your friend is lucky he wasn't shot, or had his gun stolen.

    Allowing a person without credentials--just because they SAY they are a cop--to take your gun, or even get CLOSE to it, is just flat-out STUPID.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  8. #8
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by jag06 View Post
    I forget what the form is called, but if memory serves it is used to trace the gun back to the original purchaser. It is kept in the gun stores possession. If the gun is in a crime or stolen and then found, they trace the serial number back to the manufacture, they then trace who they sold it to, and then the gun store provides the ATF with the information on who bought it. If the number is filed off they trace it using the ballistics from the gun when the manufacturer test fired it and sent in the bullet for the atf's record. It is not required to fill out in order to open carry. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

    That form is a BATFE Form 4473 (Firearms Transaction Record). Just FYI...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Zebulon
    Posts
    22
    ++1 with Dreamer.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    , North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    That form is a BATFE Form 4473 (Firearms Transaction Record). Just FYI...
    Knew you or one of the others would have the answer. I knew it was a ATF form of some sort. Thanks!

  11. #11
    Regular Member Duceforty22's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Raleigh
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by jag06 View Post
    I forget what the form is called, but if memory serves it is used to trace the gun back to the original purchaser. It is kept in the gun stores possession. If the gun is in a crime or stolen and then found, they trace the serial number back to the manufacture, they then trace who they sold it to, and then the gun store provides the ATF with the information on who bought it. If the number is filed off they trace it using the ballistics from the gun when the manufacturer test fired it and sent in the bullet for the atf's record. It is not required to fill out in order to open carry. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
    Cool, at first i thought i was being tricked into registering my guns, but now it makes sense.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    I need to address some of the things you said in this post, because although some of it is right, some of it is pure, unadulterated BS. I'm assuming you are just repeating what someone told you, so I won't hold it against you, but I DO want to set the record straight for other readers...

    Quote Originally Posted by jag06 View Post
    I forget what the form is called, but if memory serves it is used to trace the gun back to the original purchaser. It is kept in the gun stores possession. If the gun is in a crime or stolen and then found, they trace the serial number back to the manufacture, they then trace who they sold it to, and then the gun store provides the ATF with the information on who bought it.
    Yes, this part is almost spot-on. Dealers keep their 4473's, as a record of who purchased a firearm.

    Where you go wrong is on the "original purchases" statement. ANY time a firearm is purchased through an FFL dealer, a 4473 MUST be filled out--NOT just with factory-new firearms, but also used guns, trade-ins, and pawn shop purchases.


    Quote Originally Posted by jag06 View Post
    If the number is filed off they trace it using the ballistics from the gun when the manufacturer test fired it and sent in the bullet for the atf's record.
    I have no idea where you heard this, but it is 100% false. The BATFE does not maintain a "ballistic fingerprint database" for factory-new firearms, nor does any other Federal agency.

    Some states do (like MD and CA) which is why manufacturers include spent casings with your factory-new gun. But the VAST majority of states do NOT keep such records, and NONE of the Federal agencies keep ballistic fingerprint data on newly-manufactured firearms. Period. End of discussion...

    The only way that the BATFE or any State or local LEA can do a "ballistic match" on the bullet recovered at a crime scene (INCLUDING the states that DO keep such records) is to ALSO recover the firearm used to commit the crime and TEST IT against recovered projectiles.

    Factory-supplied "test bullets" do NOT provide any useful info. A criminal can EASILY swap out a barrel, firing pin and/or slide, or use tools to mark or alter the face of any of those parts to cause a "no match" result on a ballistic test based on the factory bullet. Simple wear and tear on a firearm can cause enough change in rifling, firing pin indent geometry, and breech impression to cause a "no match".

    EVERY reputable academic study that has been done on the effectiveness of "factory ballistic fingerprinting" has proven--beyond a shadow of a doubt--that they are statistically and forensically useless. In fact, MD has spend TENS of MILLIONS of dollars on their program in the last decade, and their "ballistic fingerprint database" has not contributed to the solving of a SINGLE crime. Not one. Nada...

    Only Glock voluntarily contributed factory-fired bullets to the BATFE for inclusion in their IBIS balistics database. This is, IMO, yet another reason NOT to buy Glocks, or at the very least, a SUPERB reason to put an aftermarket barrel and firing pin in your Glock if you already own one...


    Quote Originally Posted by jag06 View Post
    It is not required to fill out in order to open carry. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
    I have NO idea where you heard this, but the Feds have NO jurisdiction over mode of carry in local jurisdiction. Whether I Open Carry, Concealed Carry, Carry BOTH ways, or Carry me back to old Tiperrary is of NO concern to the BATFE.

    If you buy a gun from a dealer with a FFL (Federal Firearms License) you MUST generate a Form 4473. Period. Doesn't matter how you carry it. Doesn't matter if you NEVER carry it. the form is a record of the TRANSFER.

    I don't know where people come up with this crap...


    Just wanted to set the record straight. We've got PLENTY of reasons to be paranoid about the BATFE and the FBI. But this is not one of them... Yet...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 05-26-2011 at 01:48 AM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  13. #13
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by sickoneinc View Post
    ...but this sheriff started to try and feed me bull about having to REGISTER with the state of North Carolina in order to legally open carry.

    According to the NC Attorney General's booklet "North Carolina Firearms Law", revised edition, January 2010, page 36, §F:

    "Except as to the requirement to lawfully possess a
    machine gun under N.C.G.S. § 14-409, North
    Carolina generally does not require other types of
    firearms to be registered with the sheriff or Police
    Department.
    The only type of "registration"
    requirement is that a purchaser or receiver of a pistol
    must first obtain a pistol permit, for each pistol, from
    the sheriff of the county in which he/she resides. Note:
    A local act requiring registration for Durham, N.C. is
    still valid law in the State."
    Unless you live in the city of Durham (where you are required by a local ordinance to register handguns), there is NO requirement for registration of ANY firearm in NC unless it is a Class III firearm.

    You can download a PDF of this booklet from the NC DOJ website by clicking on THIS LINK.

    The LEO you spoke to was lying. Someone needs to report him to the Attorney General's office, so that he can be "re-educated" as to the specifics of NC law...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 05-26-2011 at 02:10 AM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    211

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    , North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    292
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I need to address some of the things you said in this post, because although some of it is right, some of it is pure, unadulterated BS. I'm assuming you are just repeating what someone told you, so I won't hold it against you, but I DO want to set the record straight for other readers...



    Yes, this part is almost spot-on. Dealers keep their 4473's, as a record of who purchased a firearm.

    Where you go wrong is on the "original purchases" statement. ANY time a firearm is purchased through an FFL dealer, a 4473 MUST be filled out--NOT just with factory-new firearms, but also used guns, trade-ins, and pawn shop purchases.




    I have no idea where you heard this, but it is 100% false. The BATFE does not maintain a "ballistic fingerprint database" for factory-new firearms, nor does any other Federal agency.

    Some states do (like MD and CA) which is why manufacturers include spent casings with your factory-new gun. But the VAST majority of states do NOT keep such records, and NONE of the Federal agencies keep ballistic fingerprint data on newly-manufactured firearms. Period. End of discussion...

    The only way that the BATFE or any State or local LEA can do a "ballistic match" on the bullet recovered at a crime scene (INCLUDING the states that DO keep such records) is to ALSO recover the firearm used to commit the crime and TEST IT against recovered projectiles.

    Factory-supplied "test bullets" do NOT provide any useful info. A criminal can EASILY swap out a barrel, firing pin and/or slide, or use tools to mark or alter the face of any of those parts to cause a "no match" result on a ballistic test based on the factory bullet. Simple wear and tear on a firearm can cause enough change in rifling, firing pin indent geometry, and breech impression to cause a "no match".

    EVERY reputable academic study that has been done on the effectiveness of "factory ballistic fingerprinting" has proven--beyond a shadow of a doubt--that they are statistically and forensically useless. In fact, MD has spend TENS of MILLIONS of dollars on their program in the last decade, and their "ballistic fingerprint database" has not contributed to the solving of a SINGLE crime. Not one. Nada...

    Only Glock voluntarily contributed factory-fired bullets to the BATFE for inclusion in their IBIS balistics database. This is, IMO, yet another reason NOT to buy Glocks, or at the very least, a SUPERB reason to put an aftermarket barrel and firing pin in your Glock if you already own one...




    I have NO idea where you heard this, but the Feds have NO jurisdiction over mode of carry in local jurisdiction. Whether I Open Carry, Concealed Carry, Carry BOTH ways, or Carry me back to old Tiperrary is of NO concern to the BATFE.

    If you buy a gun from a dealer with a FFL (Federal Firearms License) you MUST generate a Form 4473. Period. Doesn't matter how you carry it. Doesn't matter if you NEVER carry it. the form is a record of the TRANSFER.

    I don't know where people come up with this crap...


    Just wanted to set the record straight. We've got PLENTY of reasons to be paranoid about the BATFE and the FBI. But this is not one of them... Yet...
    I should have said transfer instead of purchase, seeing as how I have transfered guns from out of state and have filled out the forms. But I am still not wrong one is always filled out for the original purchase, I was just a little incomplete lol.

    The BATF fingerprint thing, that was told to me by my local gun shop owner, think he said thats what the BATF told him. I should have specified he told me it was just for handguns. And since you say Glocks do submit them to the BATF, it was possible we were talking about Glocks doing that. I said I was just going from memory and correct me if was wrong, I said that for a reason lol. And if you say the fingerprinting does not even work what does it matter if Glock send them samples. Seems it keeps them busy working on something that does not work and keeps them from bothering gun owners as much.

    As for your response to the last quote of mine you had, where you responding to me or to someone els? It sounded like you were telling me I was wrong and then you just agreed with me lol. They were asking about having to register guns to OC and the asking about the form 4473 I told them it was not part of the process to open carry. And then you quoted me saying that and asked where am I getting my information and the agreed with me lol.
    Last edited by jag06; 05-26-2011 at 11:16 AM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Grennsboro NC
    Posts
    5,358
    Quote Originally Posted by jag06 View Post
    I should have said transfer instead of purchase, seeing as how I have transfered guns from out of state and have filled out the forms. But I am still not wrong one is always filled out for the original purchase, I was just a little incomplete lol.

    Not necessarily...

    For instance, there was no Form 4473 generated for the original purchase of the Ithica model 59 rifle I own. My grandfather bought it before I was born, in the early 1960s... In fact, it has been "transferred" several times, among several members of our family, and NOT ONCE has a single 4473 been filled out.

    But if I were to sell or trade it to a dealer today, THAT transfer would generate a 4473--which would NOT be the "original sale", but it would be the FIRST and ONLY record of this rifle's transfer of ownership...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •