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Thread: Confused about Michigan handgun possession requirements for non-residents.

  1. #1
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    Confused about Michigan handgun possession requirements for non-residents.

    I'm writing a lengthly letter to a congressman and would like to cite in the footnotes exactly which of Michigan's Statutes interfere with an expatriate American citizen's (non-U.S. resident) ability to satisfy requirements in the following area:

    Simple Possession while in Michigan (i.e. getting around the purchase permit and safety registration requirements) An analogy would be residents of Vermont, their state does not issue carry licenses, what do they do?

    Am I missing any other possession-related pitfalls above and beyond the purchase permit and safety registration?

    What gets me is the exception for non-residents. Is a non-resident required to have a license to carry from the holder's actual home state (or am I confusing this with recognition of non-resident concealed carry licenses)? If so I need to review the relevant language in the statutes.

    Thanks all!
    Last edited by OC4me; 05-25-2011 at 11:34 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran RabbiVJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    I'm writing a lengthly letter to a congressman and would like to cite in the footnotes exactly which of Michigan's Statutes interfere with an expatriate American citizen's (non-U.S. resident) ability to satisfy requirements in the following area:

    Simple Possession while in Michigan (i.e. getting around the purchase permit and safety registration requirements) An analogy would be residents of Vermont, their state does not issue carry licenses, what do they do?

    Am I missing any other possession-related pitfalls above and beyond the purchase permit and safety registration?

    What gets me is the exception for non-residents. Is a non-resident required to have a license to carry from the holder's actual home state (or am I confusing this with recognition of non-resident concealed carry licenses)? If so I need to review the relevant language in the statutes.

    Thanks all!
    im in the same boat as you are, as I go back to MI to visit...unfortunately in MI, they require pistols to be registered. if you are a non resident a LTC/CCW/CPL from your home state is required...i dont remember the cite but if some of the MOC guys can find the cite i appreciate it.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    28.422 is the section on Permits To Purchase/Possess. The sections that deals with non-Michigan residents is 8 (a-e), & 9.

    (8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:

    (a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.

    (b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a).

    (c) The individual is the owner of the pistol he or she possesses, carries, or transports.

    (d) The individual possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as that term is defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.

    (e) The individual is in this state for a period of 180 days or less and does not intend to establish residency in this state.

    (9) An individual who is a nonresident of this state shall present the license described in subsection (8)(a) upon the demand of a police officer. An individual who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    This is why, ironically, an Illinois resident with a valid FOID card can possess and openly carry their pistol here in MI but a resident of Vermont, where there is no licensing, cannot. Unless, because of 28.432, the VT resident has a license to conceal issued by any state because 28.432 exempts anybody meeting one of its listed exemptions from the licensing requirements of 28.422.

    28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422; amendatory act as “Janet Kukuk act”.

    Sec. 12.

    (1) Section 2 (Sec. 2 is 28.422 linked above, B) does not apply to any of the following:

    (f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.
    This would allow the VT resident to possess and openly carry their pistol but they could not conceal (see below).

    Interestingly the court has found that the U.S. citizenship requirement in section 3(c) of 28.422 is unconstitutional under the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

    (c) The person is a citizen of the United States and is a legal resident of this state. For the purposes of this section, a person shall be considered a legal resident of this state if any of the following apply:...

    Constitutionality: The Michigan Court of Appeals held in Chan v City of Troy, 220 Mich App 376; 559 NW2d 374 (1997), that the citizen requirement, now MCL 28.422(3)(c), for a permit to purchase a pistol contained in MCL 28.422(3)(b) violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution and is unconstitutional.
    So in order to possess/open carry here you would need to:

    a) be a legal resident of MI and obtain a Permit To Purchase/Possess

    b) be a legal resident of another state that has some type of licensing scheme which would exempt you from the Permit To Purchase/Possess.

    c) be a non-resident of MI that has a non-resident concealed permit issued from some state other than your state of residence.

    --------------------

    750.231a is the law that requires a person who wishes to concealed carry to have a concealed license from their state of residence.

    750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.

    Sec. 231a.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
    This is why, for example, a Vermont resident that obtains an out of state permit from another state, like Utah, still cannot concealed carry their pistol in MI.

    Unfortunately I don't know how any of this helps in your situation since all of the schemes in place require you to have legal residency in some U.S. State...unless you can find a state that will issue you a non-resident concealed permit without actually having a residence in the U.S.

    I am not a lawyer and this is just my layman's take on the law. Please seek competent legal counsel for real answers to your questions.

    Bronson
    Last edited by Bronson; 05-26-2011 at 01:24 AM.
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    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbiVJ View Post
    im in the same boat as you are, as I go back to MI to visit...unfortunately in MI, they require pistols to be registered. if you are a non resident a LTC/CCW/CPL from your home state is required...i dont remember the cite but if some of the MOC guys can find the cite i appreciate it.
    If you have a concealed license from your state of residence you may concealed or open carry here.

    If you do not have a concealed license from your state of residence but have a non-resident concealed permit from another state you may open carry here under the same rules as a MI resident that doesn't have a MI CPL.

    See the post above for all applicable cites.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

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    Campaign Veteran RabbiVJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    If you have a concealed license from your state of residence you may concealed or open carry here.

    If you do not have a concealed license from your state of residence but have a non-resident concealed permit from another state you may open carry here under the same rules as a MI resident that doesn't have a MI CPL.

    See the post above for all applicable cites.

    Bronson
    yeah that is why i was asking for a cite...i already have a Georgia Weapons Licence and 2 other states...soon to be 3 (AZ, FL and UT) I knew what ya meant...:-)
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  6. #6
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    Bronson,

    That was most helpful! You actually cleared up a misconception that I had. I was under the impression that expatriate Americans could not legally possess a pistol in Michigan. I did a lot of research and determined that out of the 50 U.S. States, only Arizona (and maybe Utah) allow expatriates the opportunity to get a CPL. So I will be sending in an Arizona application (assuming I can get a local Thai police department to sign-off on a fingerprint card). With that in hand, I'm legal for possession at least.

    Anyway, I was going to use this as an example in a long letter that I'm drafting for a member of congress. I guess I will have to substitute some other examples of the hassles Americans face in lawfully exercising their rights.

    By the way, another issue that I wanted to research had something to do with a Michigan DA who threatened to prosecute CPL holders if they carried a second pistol concealed pursuant to her (mis)reading of the relevant concealed carry statute. But I'll start another thread on that.

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