OC4me
Regular Member
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bill for nation wide CCW recip
- Thread starter JoeGlock40
- Start date
eye95
Well-known member
Once it is accepted that the feds have the authority to force States to accept other States' licenses, the complaint will be raised that some States require a background check, while others do not. A law will soon be passed that only licenses from States that do background checks will be valid in other such States. More will follow. A structure of what is and is not an acceptable license and what States must do will follow. We will end up with a national licensing scheme. Mark my words.
This development is not good. It will not promote Liberty. It will promote federal government control over the act of carry.
I cannot say this often enough. The solution to not being able to carry in every State is to create unlicensed carry in every State. Laws that support licensing promote licensing. And licensing is antithetical to the exercise of a right.
This development is not good. It will not promote Liberty. It will promote federal government control over the act of carry.
I cannot say this often enough. The solution to not being able to carry in every State is to create unlicensed carry in every State. Laws that support licensing promote licensing. And licensing is antithetical to the exercise of a right.
parker64
Regular Member
x2
OK you all have me convinced. Stance change initiate.....complete. while certainly it would be good to be able to carry in 48 states unrestricted, I am a much bigger believer in states rights and now see the logic in the opposition. i should have seen it earlier. Ill have to find time to write to oppose this bill as well. anybody know when it goes to vote?
hopefully, more and more states will follow Arizona, alaska and Montana. those three states alone should begin to provide significant evidence of the logicality of Constitutional carry.
hopefully, more and more states will follow Arizona, alaska and Montana. those three states alone should begin to provide significant evidence of the logicality of Constitutional carry.
The law is not about protecting the right to keep and bear arms. It is about licensing a privilege. Notice it only mentions arms that have traveled in interstate commerce. If the law outlawed the licensing and permitting of keeping or carrying arms and outlawed prohibiting such activity, that would be within Congress' powers and I would support such a law. I dread the thought of carrying becoming like driving were it comes to licenses for such would be tyranny and against the second amendment.
dmatting
Regular Member
I agree wholeheartedly. What appears to be an easy route to national reciprocity is nothing more than another layer of control. Keep it in the states and between the states.
Very good talking points and much food for thought, but such conversation is academic.....Pro and Con for this legislation, doesn't really matter. These bills are going nowhere. Little support from either side.
As far as the more restrictive legislation requiring N.J. type requirements for carry, it's going nowhere. This not a good political climate to aggravate a more aggressive than ever before pro-gun community.
As far as the more restrictive legislation requiring N.J. type requirements for carry, it's going nowhere. This not a good political climate to aggravate a more aggressive than ever before pro-gun community.
eye95
Well-known member
There is little support from both sides precisely because it is such a bad law. The antis think this law will increase carry (it will initially, long-term, hard to say), so they don't like it. The pro-Liberty think this law is anti-Liberty, so they don't like it. So who supports it? Folks who want ease of carry, as opposed to the right to carry, a minority of the pro-carry movement. So support is limited to a fraction of a fraction.
Ironically, if the antis supported it, I think that their long-term goals would be better achieved.
Funtimes
Regular Member
Rocking 234 co-sponsors (being one of the highest sponsored bills) I can really see where that no support concept is coming from..:banghead:
This bill does not tell states how you can carry, nor does it force them to have carry. It simply requires them to honor your permit to carry just like your drivers license.
It also allows you to carry as if you were a unrestricted person. This is the perfect bill to counter states who don't want to issue permits (CA, HI, DC, MD, NY, NJ). My civil rights ending at my state lines certainly affects commerce and my ability to freely travel.
People should be supporting this bill to further gun rights.
This bill does not tell states how you can carry, nor does it force them to have carry. It simply requires them to honor your permit to carry just like your drivers license.
It also allows you to carry as if you were a unrestricted person. This is the perfect bill to counter states who don't want to issue permits (CA, HI, DC, MD, NY, NJ). My civil rights ending at my state lines certainly affects commerce and my ability to freely travel.
People should be supporting this bill to further gun rights.
eye95
Well-known member
I would have said: People should oppose this bill furthering gun privileges.
If you need a permission slip, it ain't a right. Folks need to understand that.
If you need a permission slip, it ain't a right. Folks need to understand that.
M-Taliesin
Regular Member
Howdy Folks!
Seems to me there already exists a quite sufficient gun law in the United States, and that law should ensure your right to carry anywhere in America; even Illinois. That law is the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. That particular law states clearly this right shall not be infringed.
There. Sorted out. Now all the states need to do is accept that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. What part of that language is in any way ambiguous? The only permit an American citizen should need is already in place.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin
Seems to me there already exists a quite sufficient gun law in the United States, and that law should ensure your right to carry anywhere in America; even Illinois. That law is the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. That particular law states clearly this right shall not be infringed.
There. Sorted out. Now all the states need to do is accept that the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. What part of that language is in any way ambiguous? The only permit an American citizen should need is already in place.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin
Funtimes
Regular Member
It would be nice if that line of thought was actually going to hold any legitimate weight in our actual legal environment. One can argue till they are blue in the face saying, "No infringements, No infringements." The chances you will ever overturn centuries of jurisprudence are pretty slim. So truthfully, until the people revolt there will always be restrictions and regulations. I mean honestly, states accept others driving licenses, why shouldn't they accept gun licenses?
So how about until the revolt comes, you try and help us protect our families?
Not all of us have the option of living in a 'free' state.
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Alexcabbie
Regular Member
Quiet you!Anti's might be reading this thread!
As regards Antis, I have oft posited they come in two classes: Type One, the more numerous, who really and truly want a peaceful, safe world for all (God bless their widdo hearts) and who see the mere presence of "tools of violence" as an unacceptable threat.
T1s range from Patchouli-smelling OM-chanting rainbow-and-unicorn s**theads to parents wondering how to make the world safer for their kids. To some degree the T1 is divorced from inconvenient reality for any of a number of reasons. T2s are an altogether different animal. T2s know that the gun is a most useful defensive tool, but they seek to deny it to others (although they usually rationalize their access to it for themselves) for various but invariably base reasons. Some make lots of money through "non-profit" "anti-violence" groups. Others seek to deprive the People of the Ultimate means of resistance to tyranny. But BOTH groups have ONE thing in common:
They will NEVER support a law that for even ten minutes would authorize the carrying of firearms in public by the Hoi-Polloi, even if the knew that one minute after that they could ban all weapons (except theirs, natch) forever.
Want to see an Anti go NUTS? Tell them the old axiom: "God made men. Colonel Colt made men equal". I guarantee he or she will turn into a spit-flying, irrational human cartoon, and they might even get violent if you laugh at them (thus betraying their whole anti-violence schtick).
eye95
Well-known member
Please, dear Government, pass this bill, to give us wider, but decidedly incomplete, permission to do that which we have the natural right to do and which you have been restricted from infringing.
We believe that papers from you (laws and permission slips) are the foundation of this right and desperately need to validate that belief with yet one more piece of paper from you. Let us, by supporting this bill, fully demonstrate our need for you and our belief in you as the Great Problem Solver. Let us come crawling to you, yet again, to acknowledge that we, not you, are the Great Problem Creators.
Please. We beseech you. Grant us this boon. Show us one more time that you are the authority over us and not vice versa.
:banghead::banghead:
We believe that papers from you (laws and permission slips) are the foundation of this right and desperately need to validate that belief with yet one more piece of paper from you. Let us, by supporting this bill, fully demonstrate our need for you and our belief in you as the Great Problem Solver. Let us come crawling to you, yet again, to acknowledge that we, not you, are the Great Problem Creators.
Please. We beseech you. Grant us this boon. Show us one more time that you are the authority over us and not vice versa.
:banghead::banghead:
since9
Campaign Veteran
What of those states like Colorado where no license is required for Open Carry? Will the bill recognize my drivers license (proof of residency) as a de facto Colorado OC license?
If it does, I'd support it in a heartbeat.
Then to heck with Boxer's "common sense" bill. As for the National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011, I'm all for it.
Look, people, I firmly believe the only license any of us should require was signed along with the other 9 Amendments in our Bill of Rights. Unfortunately, the "right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" hasn't enjoy very good milage in either the courts or the legislatures.
In 1984, Congress put forth a multi-page document intended to clarify our nation's firearms history and her 2nd Amendment. It was exceptionally well-written, yet it didn't sway many folks, either. Legislatures kept passing anti-gun bills and the courts kept siding with forces intent on eroding our 2A rights.
You can stand there and die on Little Bighorn if you want, but many of you already have CC permits. That's a license. You got 'em because that's the only way you could legally CC. Again, I do not believe any license should be required! Since almost all states do require a license for CC, why not empower the licenses we already have (I'm a CHP holder myself) with interstate authority?
If we were starting from scratch, I'd side with the naysayers to this bill. But we are not starting from scratch, are we? You can't get to where you want to be unless you know where you are, and we're not at Step 1. We're at Step 139, and in order to get there from here, we're going to have to start acting like it.
Those who don't are choosing Custer's course of action, and we know how well that worked...
As I know where we are today, I support National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 100%.
Greg Bradburn
Regular Member
No state should be allowed to regulate away ANY of our Constitutionally guaranteed God-given RIGHTS.
In Federalist 84 Hamilton argued against a Bill of Rights because he said by enumerating them in the Constitution future politicians might get the idea that they could regulate them. That's exactly what's happened.
This legislation is a step in the right direction to strip away the states unconstitutional regulating (restricting) of an enumerated right.
eye95
Well-known member
I agree. However, the fix is not another law, especially one that sets the federal government up as the arbiter of what the Right is and how States should respect it.
The fix is to change State laws so that they respect the Right or to use the courts to slap down States who won't correct their laws.
Here is the true Solution
Many of you worry about how we could keep them from miss using this bill, here is a way, Vote in the good, and Vote out the bad, pool money to impeach the radicals, and get their laws over turned. Help the NRA by Voting for the people we know will do what is right, and if there are no good people Running for Office then it is time to put up or shut up.
No good people Running get off your Duff, and Run for OFFICE. I am running for State Rep in 2012 for Washington 39th, I will do my best to help bolster the votes for Pro-gun legislation.
Running for Office is not as hard as they make it sound or look. They do that to scare you off so that the losers they want in office are all we have to choose from.
If you are honest from the get go about having issues, such as maybe a past history of drugs or Sex addiction it can stop the critics fast.
I have had a problem in my past with general Pornography, I have a history of exaggerating events, however I know these are bad what I can tell you is my wife is fully aware of my history, my problems, and she is still supporting me because I was honest with her from the beginning before we married I told her what my biggest darkest secrets were, and she said I love you, and has been a major support ever since.
I will run on an open book platform, and be as honest as I can, and if I can not answer I will do my best to treat the question asker with respect, and allow follow up questions, or the ability to ask something else.
Let the critics come my way let them dig up the dirt that is already known by those who back me. I am too tired of the crap going on to say that hiding my problems is more important than the future for my kids, and the future of my country.
Will it be hard, and uncomfortable YES, will I be tested, and challenged, YES, will I make mistakes in office there is a chance. I will not sugar coat anything, and I will be honest.
It is time for Common sense to take office here, and all over the nation, stop being bullied into not running. Have pride in representing not only those around you, and your ideas, but also those who are not on the same page. Remember that you have a duty to run if you dont like the dirt bag in office.
How different do you think it will be if hundreds of people started running for office on every level no more people would go un checked, and un balanced.
I will openly support certain groups, and openly have disdain for others. I am an individual, and a representative. I will do my best to protect the Constitution, and there by protect the rights of both those I agree with, and those I disagree with.
let us fight them not just in the street but on their own ground, if you want the enemy to run, and you want to win a war you have to take the fight to them on their home turf, and that is exactly what I plan to do.
Many of you worry about how we could keep them from miss using this bill, here is a way, Vote in the good, and Vote out the bad, pool money to impeach the radicals, and get their laws over turned. Help the NRA by Voting for the people we know will do what is right, and if there are no good people Running for Office then it is time to put up or shut up.
No good people Running get off your Duff, and Run for OFFICE. I am running for State Rep in 2012 for Washington 39th, I will do my best to help bolster the votes for Pro-gun legislation.
Running for Office is not as hard as they make it sound or look. They do that to scare you off so that the losers they want in office are all we have to choose from.
If you are honest from the get go about having issues, such as maybe a past history of drugs or Sex addiction it can stop the critics fast.
I have had a problem in my past with general Pornography, I have a history of exaggerating events, however I know these are bad what I can tell you is my wife is fully aware of my history, my problems, and she is still supporting me because I was honest with her from the beginning before we married I told her what my biggest darkest secrets were, and she said I love you, and has been a major support ever since.
I will run on an open book platform, and be as honest as I can, and if I can not answer I will do my best to treat the question asker with respect, and allow follow up questions, or the ability to ask something else.
Let the critics come my way let them dig up the dirt that is already known by those who back me. I am too tired of the crap going on to say that hiding my problems is more important than the future for my kids, and the future of my country.
Will it be hard, and uncomfortable YES, will I be tested, and challenged, YES, will I make mistakes in office there is a chance. I will not sugar coat anything, and I will be honest.
It is time for Common sense to take office here, and all over the nation, stop being bullied into not running. Have pride in representing not only those around you, and your ideas, but also those who are not on the same page. Remember that you have a duty to run if you dont like the dirt bag in office.
How different do you think it will be if hundreds of people started running for office on every level no more people would go un checked, and un balanced.
I will openly support certain groups, and openly have disdain for others. I am an individual, and a representative. I will do my best to protect the Constitution, and there by protect the rights of both those I agree with, and those I disagree with.
let us fight them not just in the street but on their own ground, if you want the enemy to run, and you want to win a war you have to take the fight to them on their home turf, and that is exactly what I plan to do.