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Thread: Permit delayed

  1. #1
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    Permit delayed

    I submitted my application for my carry permit with Prowers county 91 days ago. When it didn't show up in the mail yesterday, I made a call this morning. The reason it is delayed? The sheriff is on vacation until next week. I pointed out the 90 deadline and that they were required to approve and issue or deny within that time. She said she is going to check with someone and call me back. Curious to see how this turns out.

    What recourse does the public have when SO's don't comply with the 90 day deadline?

  2. #2
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    Well, they got back to me quickly. They are claiming the Sheriff sent me an email with some questions but I've reviewed my email archives going back to long before I submitted the application and I have never received an email from him or the department. They are now saying that I have to wait for him to get back.

  3. #3
    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Ugh!
    If they have no legal cause to deny, they MUST approve you by the 90 day mark AFAIK.

    Anyone else want to chime in here?
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
    Ugh!
    If they have no legal cause to deny, they MUST approve you by the 90 day mark AFAIK.

    Anyone else want to chime in here?
    Yes, Colorado, with 90 day, else it's nearly a slam dunk in court on the C.R.S. specified appeal. Ask for whatever additional costs you may have incurred to achieve your goal under the law, including days off to attend court, etc.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  5. #5
    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Well, eBratt.
    It's been 92 days. I would head over to the Sheriff's office and have a little face time before the weekend.
    Issue or deny. By law.
    They have the CCW printing system right there.
    Please let us know what happens.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

  6. #6
    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBratt View Post
    When it didn't show up in the mail yesterday
    BTW, They are supposed to call you to come pick it up so they can take your picture for the permit. They won't send it in the mail.

    I still can't believe that they're saying it's because someone's on their vacation. That's no excuse. YOU did all of the requirements. It's their turn.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

  7. #7
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    First time I applied in Denver it was over 300 days before I recieved a response.

    Many phone calls, letters and e-mails between days 90 and 300.

    As was posted in another thread... DPD is the largest gang in the state.

  8. #8
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    The questions he had were about my satisfying the educational requirement. He has been very flexible on this and if I push I am assuming they will reject it. I'll just be patient and speak with him on Wednesday.

    I do have another question. You have to go in to get your pic taken, no passport pics will do? I ask because I am currently having to work away from my home during the week and am rarely if ever home during business hours. This may be a kink in the process...

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    Since9, is there a special court for him to go to, or is it civil? If someone wanted to push the issue, what would they have to do?

  10. #10
    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBratt View Post
    The questions he had were about my satisfying the educational requirement. He has been very flexible on this and if I push I am assuming they will reject it. I'll just be patient and speak with him on Wednesday.

    I do have another question. You have to go in to get your pic taken, no passport pics will do? I ask because I am currently having to work away from my home during the week and am rarely if ever home during business hours. This may be a kink in the process...
    Well for Adams County, I had to come in during normal business hours. 8AM-4-5PM-ish (I know they open at eight, not sure when they close).
    You might mention this to them and see if they can accommodate. Remember, YOU fulfilled your requirements to get your CCW. THEY are the ones who dithered and are now scrambling because it's past the 90-day mark.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

  11. #11
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    Rmgo

    If you have problems with your concealed handgun permit contact Rocky Mtn Gun Owners. They look for fights.

  12. #12
    Regular Member JamesB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzclancy View Post
    If you have problems with your concealed handgun permit contact Rocky Mtn Gun Owners. They look for fights.
    Well...

    They look for fights that they can win. Usually they like the fights they can win easily. Not that I blame them for that, but some of us face an uphill battle and they are ...hesitant to join those.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    Now I remember why I like El Paso County. I had my permit in 27 days AND it was mailed to me.

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    Polynikes, when did you get your permit, I've been hearing long times on all permits. Though it has been a few months since it's really been talked about so that may have changed.

  15. #15
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Howdy Folks!
    I'd like to hear from the OP whether he has heard anything new regarding his permit.
    Last I knew, he was going to wait for the sheriff to return from vacation and have a visit with him on the matter.

    Also, I'd like to know whether requesting an immediate judical review would help, and how one would go about doing that.

    The statutes regarding permit issuance clearly state that the applicant must be either approved within 90 days or denied. If denied, he has the right to secondary review by the sheriff, or judical review. As that 90 day period has already elapsed (in violation of the Colorado Revised Statute) is this not a defacto denial and qualify for immediate judical review?

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  16. #16
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    So here is the bit longer version of the story. My father was a federal firearms instructor and taught me shooting from the age of 10 or so how to shoot everything from his service Sig and hunting rifles to fun things he'd bring home like raid shotguns and UZIs. I consider myself very competent with a variety of firearms and while not formally trained, insist on acting as RSO when I go out shooting with a bunch of friends because irresponsible range behavior just bothers me to the core (as it should anyone).

    Because of that history, I have never sought formal education. I am licensed/permitted in three states and consider myself a well-read individual on the laws of the states in which I carry (had a cop ask me if I was a lawyer during one of my few LEO encounters). The only formal training I ever did was for my Utah permit as it requires a very specific Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification (BCI) approved course and their specific documentation. My permit is less than 10 years old and so I approached the Sheriff to see if my valid UT permit along with a copy of the curriculum for the UT course would suffice for proof of training. After reviewing the curriculum, he said that he would accept that and to include a note saying that he said so in my application.

    I submitted my application with another copy of my UT permit and a note reminding him of our conversation. When I asked how long it would take for a turnaround, I was told 90 days. I said I understood that by statute they had 90 days to issue or deny but was curious what the typical return timeframe is and was again told, "we have 90 days."

    So I gave them 90 days. On day 91, I called and asked and was told the Sheriff was out of town. When I pressed about the 90 day issue, I was told that I didn't include a training certificate (technically true) and when I explained about what the Sheriff had said, I was told I'd have to talk to him specifically. When he got back, he had his secretary call me and specifically say he would not issue without a copy of the certificate (the original BCI course certificate goes to BCI in Utah as I recall).

    So, I could press the 90 day issue but then I imagine it would simply be rejected. So rather than raise a fuss, be denied (some states ask if you've ever been denied a permit), and lose the application money, I'll play the game his way. I found someone who will do the training for a reasonable price and will provide the certificate.

    The next battle will be whether I have to come in for the picture or pick it up in person as I am out of town during all business hours for my job.
    Last edited by eBratt; 06-02-2011 at 12:07 PM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Hmmm. This may change things for you.
    Even so, if they were to deny because of the training issue, they'd STILL have to do it (By law) within the 90-day timeframe.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZackL View Post
    Polynikes, when did you get your permit, I've been hearing long times on all permits. Though it has been a few months since it's really been talked about so that may have changed.
    I actually just got mine in April. The Sheriff's Office said it would be six to eight weeks when I applied, but I got it in four. The only downside to that was I'd ordered a Crossbreed holster at roughly the same time, figuring their four to six week shipping time would still beat my six to eight week wait for my permit. It didn't.

  19. #19
    Regular Member RandallFlagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polynikes View Post
    I actually just got mine in April. The Sheriff's Office said it would be six to eight weeks when I applied, but I got it in four. The only downside to that was I'd ordered a Crossbreed holster at roughly the same time, figuring their four to six week shipping time would still beat my six to eight week wait for my permit. It didn't.
    How are you liking the Crossbreed? I love mine, and was thinking about ordering a second one for my backup -wondering how wearing 2 holsters would rank as far as useable.
    Why do I have a bar in my home? Because it's cheaper to stock a bar than to get a DUI.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBratt View Post
    So rather than raise a fuss, be denied (some states ask if you've ever been denied a permit), and lose the application money, I'll play the game his way. I found someone who will do the training for a reasonable price and will provide the certificate.
    I think that's wise.

    The next battle will be whether I have to come in for the picture or pick it up in person as I am out of town during all business hours for my job.
    Don't know about the system used in your county, but here in El Paso county, they picture they take is digital and goes both into their database as well as being printed on your CC permit. Thus, a passport photo won't do.

    They also want you in person with two other forms of ID as well as your fingerprint to ensure they're giving the permit to the right person i.e. the same one who applied.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  21. #21
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Status?

    Howdy Folks!
    So.... has there been any change? What is the current status of this issue?
    Still no permit? Permit issued? Any discussion with the sheriff involved?

    I'm following this thread with keen interest, considering I'll be applying for my own CCW in the future and would like to know how things go for folks in various counties.

    Guess El Paso county is the place ya oughtta be, if you want the minimum of fuss, that is.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin

  22. #22
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    I ended up having to go out and get the regular training. That was turned in. Now they say that they can't issue without my picture being taken at their station. I work out of town so the soonest that can happen is Monday morning before I leave to go back out of town from my weekend at home.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Kingfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eBratt View Post
    I ended up having to go out and get the regular training. That was turned in. Now they say that they can't issue without my picture being taken at their station. I work out of town so the soonest that can happen is Monday morning before I leave to go back out of town from my weekend at home.
    But the good news is that you should be able to pick it up right then.

  24. #24
    Regular Member eBratt's Avatar
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    Here's hoping. I'll find out in 14 hours.

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    Regular Member Polynikes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandallFlagg View Post
    How are you liking the Crossbreed? I love mine, and was thinking about ordering a second one for my backup -wondering how wearing 2 holsters would rank as far as useable.
    I love it, I can carry my XD9sc IWB in just jeans and a T-shirt and it's completely unnoticeable. Plus, the darn thing only gets more comfortable each day I wear it. Definitely worth the price and the wait.

    As far as wearing two, I think Crossbreed makes an even smaller model for a something little like a BUG, that could easily be worn in appendix or small of back mode. Microtuck or something like that. My wife wants one for her .38.
    "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it." - Judge Learned Hand

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