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Thread: Hero gets fired for using a gun to stop robbery

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    Hero gets fired for using a gun to stop robbery

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    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 06:11 PM.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    I'm generally a big fan of John Lott, but his claim that there are OSHA regs that force employers to prohibit employees from carrying lawfully-owned and permitted concealed weapons is simply untrue.

    He is referring to the "general duty clause", which is an OSHA requirement that:

    In a workplace where the risk of violence and serious personal injury are significant enough to be "recognized hazards," the general duty clause [specified by Section 5(a)(1) of the Occupational Safety and Health Act (OSH Act)] would require the employer to take feasible steps to minimize those risks. Failure of an employer to implement feasible means of abatement of these hazards could result in the finding of an OSH Act violation.
    (taken from a 1992 OSHA letter of interpretation. )
    http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ONS&p_id=25504

    OSHA has issued "guidance" regarding workplace violence, but it does not have the authority to require employers to prohibit firearms in the workplace.

    This requires employers to do what they can to provide a safe working environment for employees when a situation exists that might be more dangerous than normal--providing security guards, installing metal detectors or other security devices, etc. This is why banks and convenience stores in gang-ridden neighborhoods have their cashiers encased in bulletproof lexan. If they didn't, and they got hurt or killed by a thug, they could VERY WELL be cited for violating OSHA standards for workplace safety...

    You need to remember, most OSHA regs have NOTHING to do with actual "employee safety". They have to do with giving employers a set of guidelines to keep them from being sued by employees (or employee's survivors) if they are hurt on the job. OSHA is essentially a HUGE bureaucracy set up to provide CYA for business owners. And THAT is the sad, sick truth of OSHA.

    If OSHA were genuinely involved in workplace safety and employee safety, there would still be 29 more miners still working, breathing, and hugging their families at the end of their shifts in Montcoal, WV...


    Mr. Lott usually doesn't resort to such hyperbole. HE usually sticks to the facts, and actually cites statutes, laws, and specific regulations directly.

    I wonder why he is framing his discussion on this incident in such a way this time?
    Last edited by Dreamer; 05-26-2011 at 07:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    I'm generally a big fan of John Lott, but his claim that there are OSHA regs that force employers to prohibit employees from carrying lawfully-owned and permitted concealed weapons is simply untrue.

    He is referring to the "general duty clause", which is an OSHA requirement that:

    (taken from a 1992 OSHA letter of interpretation. )
    http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ONS&p_id=25504

    OSHA has issued "guidance" regarding workplace violence, but it does not have the authority to require employers to prohibit firearms in the workplace.

    This requires employers to do what they can to provide a safe working environment for employees when a situation exists that might be more dangerous than normal--providing security guards, installing metal detectors or other security devices, etc. This is why banks and convenience stores in gang-ridden neighborhoods have their cashiers encased in bulletproof lexan. If they didn't, and they got hurt or killed by a thug, they could VERY WELL be cited for violating OSHA standards for workplace safety...

    You need to remember, most OSHA regs have NOTHING to do with actual "employee safety". They have to do with giving employers a set of guidelines to keep them from being sued by employees (or employee's survivors) if they are hurt on the job. OSHA is essentially a HUGE bureaucracy set up to provide CYA for business owners. And THAT is the sad, sick truth of OSHA.

    If OSHA were genuinely involved in workplace safety and employee safety, there would still be 29 more miners still working, breathing, and hugging their families at the end of their shifts in Montcoal, WV...


    Mr. Lott usually doesn't resort to such hyperbole. HE usually sticks to the facts, and actually cites statutes, laws, and specific regulations directly.

    I wonder why he is framing his discussion on this incident in such a way this time?
    Then you need to follow his links. I'll post it below, but if you were to have followed the link to begin with you would have seen how there's already been a court case that states the OSHA bans guns from the workplace. It also preempts states from enacting laws that expressly prohibit companies from banning employees from having guns at work.


    http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/lab...eneral-du.html

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    Standard operating procedure unfortunately

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    the Federal OSHA regulations forbid employers letting employees carry guns with them in the workplace.
    Thats very odd.. I was in a gunstore in South Bend, IN a couple weeks ago, GREAT place BTW, there were at least 10 employees in this store, ALL of them were carrying.

    I followed the links, maybe I'm to stupid to read legalise, but I could not find where it stated that I could not allow my employees to carry while at work.

    If this is the case can someone cut and paste it for me?
    Last edited by xd shooter; 05-26-2011 at 10:38 PM.

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    I USED to work for Walgreens and their LP idiots tried to give me a hard time for carrying a pocket knife!! Claimed it was a 'weapon.' I used it practicely every day to cut or open stuff. Just made sure they wern't around when I used it.
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    Regular Member eddallen1958's Avatar
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    Being fired for protecting the lives of people in the store is nothing less than a truck load of BS. If this guy didn't stop the threat when he did; How many people may have been shot for not doing exactly what the robbers wanted? Walgreen's would have had much more serious problems had that happened.

    The 2nd Amendment gives us the right to protect ourselves (and others) from grave danger. I plan on using that right. I can open carry or conceal carry and I will carry.

    If this is all Walgreen's think about the safety of their employees, or the safety of their customers, then screw them. I will take my business elsewhere.
    Last edited by eddallen1958; 05-27-2011 at 10:35 AM.
    If you take all the guns off the street, you still will have a crime problem.
    If you take the criminals off the street, you cannot have a gun problem.

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    When my wife's work was getting threats her boss actually gave specific permission that they could carry at work if they wanted to. I go there all the time to help out with little things and am carrying. The OSHA law was just to ensure a safe environment. If that means allowing the employees to carry for self defense so be it. Meanwhile the company I work for is so concerned about safety we are not even supposed to have knives or box cutters on us because some idiot put an open box cutter in his pocket. The irony is I work around high voltage, mechanical dangers, steam, and a variety of sick people (work in hospitals) and they are so worried about a box cutter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    Thats very odd.. I was in a gunstore in South Bend, IN a couple weeks ago, GREAT place BTW, there were at least 10 employees in this store, ALL of them were carrying.

    I followed the links, maybe I'm to stupid to read legalise, but I could not find where it stated that I could not allow my employees to carry while at work.

    If this is the case can someone cut and paste it for me?
    Basically it says that Oklahoma passed a law that made it illegal for companies to ban employees from bringing weapons on the store premises. The courts ruled that the law was illegal because the OSHA preempted state law and that companies had a duty to make the workplace safe. If someone else can read legalise better and can better paraphrase it please do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eddallen1958 View Post

    The 2nd Amendment gives us the right to protect ourselves (and others) from grave danger. I plan on using that right. I can open carry or conceal carry and I will carry.

    If this is all Walgreen's think about the safety of their employees, or the safety of their customers, then screw them. I will take my business elsewhere.
    +1 and +1

    who shops at wallgreens anyway? the magazine racks blow
    If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun. - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    OSHA research/findings appear to be seriously flawed.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    I wont lose sleep over a loss of a job because I violated their wishes to be at the mercy of my enemies.
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    Regular Member Wolf1477's Avatar
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    Looks like the SPAM bots have almost reached sentience...now the question is: Do we run for the hills, or, elect them to office?

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    2A
    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 06:11 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Regular Member Wolf1477's Avatar
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    LoL I'm sorry, no, I wasn't referring to you. I should have quoted, but, we're not supposed to quote spam messages. I was talking about Mr. Only Vaguely Related To The OP One Line Reply that posted above me.

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    No worries

    2A
    Last edited by OC-moto450r; 08-02-2012 at 06:12 PM.

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    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
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    I would rather be fired than dead.

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    I must say that I totally agree with that.

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