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Applying For A Maryland Handgun Permit

Grapeshot

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You know an interesting point about this is what I asked in my OP ie what effect would a denial from MD have on applying to other states since most applications (including MD's) ask if you have ever been denied a firearms permit from any state or local jurisdiction.

Don't see this having any real effect on other permits - just let them know it was Maryland.

Better yet, don't waste your time and money with Md.
 

swinokur

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Montgomery County, MD
You know an interesting point about this is what I asked in my OP ie what effect would a denial from MD have on applying to other states since most applications (including MD's) ask if you have ever been denied a firearms permit from any state or local jurisdiction.

I looked at both FL and UT websites, as they are very popular states for NR CCW permits. Although there may be a question on the actual application neither state's web site mentions that as a reason for disqualification.

As Grape said, a MD rejection doesn't indicate anything more than MD's "good and sufficient" requirement being the reason for the rejection.
 

Maryland Shall Issue

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You know an interesting point about this is what I asked in my OP ie what effect would a denial from MD have on applying to other states since most applications (including MD's) ask if you have ever been denied a firearms permit from any state or local jurisdiction.

According to our discussions with officials in VA, UT and FL.....no effect whatsoever. They know how restrictive MD's process is and don't consider denial a disqualifying factor.
 

district9

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OK guys, thanks for the info. Any other downsides to applying other than the money spent ie do the MSP maintain files on people who applied but were denied, and if so how do they use this info (sorry for sounding paranoid, but some of the things I'm reading about how MD issues permits are a little creepy)?
 

Maryland Shall Issue

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Maryland
OK guys, thanks for the info. Any other downsides to applying other than the money spent ie do the MSP maintain files on people who applied but were denied, and if so how do they use this info (sorry for sounding paranoid, but some of the things I'm reading about how MD issues permits are a little creepy)?

All applications are filed, whether approved or not and become a matter of record.

The MSP hasn't even the funding to process the IBIS materials and are running long on processing purchase paperwork, so it's highly improbable that anyone is "using" anything with regards to the application materials.

Despite the hyperbole, the people working the licensing division are for the most part regular people just doing their jobs.
 

Dreamer

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In 2005, the Maryland State Police Forensic Sciences Division has called for scrapping the state`s ballistic imaging program (MD-IBIS) because it had 1) not helped in solving a single crime, 2) was a huge drain on resources in the MSP, and 3) had cost the state $2.5 Million in it's first 4 years of operation with no results to show for it...

And here we are, 10 years after MD-IBIS was initiated, 6 years after the MSPs own Forensic experts said it was usless, and more than $10 Million cost to the taxpayers of MD--and STILL this system has hadNO positive impact on crime-solving , and it's STILL being used...

Wake up MD--not only are you being robbed of your rights, but you are paying a LOT of money for the "privilege" of being mugged.

When will the organized criminal enterprises in Pikesville and Annapolis be held responsible for their lawless acts?
 
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Dreamer

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Oh, one more thing about IBIS...

When MSP purchased thsi system (which, BTW, is produced by a Canadian company, Forensic Technology, from Quebec), the spokesman from MSP said this in a press release:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=495474&postcount=1

"Since the majority of handguns used in crimes in our state were originally purchased in Maryland, the ability to quickly identify the gun used in a crime from shell casings found at a scene will significantly advance the speed and accuracy of criminal investigations," said Maryland State Police Superintendent Colonel David. B. Mitchell, a 29-year law enforcement veteran.
But in a 2010 article in the Baltimore Sun, a study produced by Mayors Against Illegal Guns states that in MD, crime guns come MOSTLY from other states, and that "illegal weapons are imported here at one of the highest rates of any state."

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/20...gainst-illegal-guns-gun-laws-gun-restrictions


So, which is it, MAIG and MSP? Are most MD crime guns bought in MD, or are they imported from VA, PA, NC, and WV? It can't be both ways.

Somebody is lying.


C'mon people... This isn't rocket science. Five minutes on Goggle, and enough logical acumen to make a peanut butter sandwich should enable someone to put this together.

Why doesn't someone in MD call out MAIG and MSP on their obvious lies. Why are they allowed to spew this steady river of BS into the ears of Marylanders without someone standing up and calling BS?
 
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district9

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All applications are filed, whether approved or not and become a matter of record.

The MSP hasn't even the funding to process the IBIS materials and are running long on processing purchase paperwork, so it's highly improbable that anyone is "using" anything with regards to the application materials.

Despite the hyperbole, the people working the licensing division are for the most part regular people just doing their jobs.

Yeah, the people I've talked to so far seem OK, and they haven't tried to mislead me about my chances in getting a permit approval if I do apply. I've read on one thread at MD Shooters that there are at least some "regular" people that have got unrestricted permits, but nobody was willing to give any details on how that happened. The thread was shut down for whatever reason.
 
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Sig229

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Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
It's something like 1.7% of the total issuance of permits that are issued solely for the purposes of self-defense. No way of knowing what the percentage of those that are "unrestricted".

Yes, most CHL's that Maryland reluctantly does issue go to private armed security, private investigators or people in job fields that are at high risk of being robbed. For instance I have a friend in Maryland who's a physician and has a private practice and needs to have certain narcotic medications on hand in his office for outpatient surgery.
The person who delivers these medications from the wholesaler has a MD concealed carry license but can only carry while he is working or going to and from his job.
 
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Maryland Shall Issue

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Isn't any self defense permit unrestricted?

No way of knowing, to tell the truth. There are "boilerplate" restrictions that accompany permits and there are unrestricted permits.

One would presume that the approximately 2% of permits issued for self-defense would be unrestricted, if not expressly so, most certainly in application.

For instance, even a restricted permit that may say "while engaged in business as an attorney" could effectively be unrestricted to a degree since many attorneys are working even if not at the office.

Those issued permits for transporting pharmaceutical materials may have samples with them at all times thus putting them in compliance.

It really would be much simpler for LE in MD to simply say that a permit is a permit is a permit and forget about the technical issues that accompany the myriad restrictions. Of course, the predicate to that would be that there was a uniform and equitable methodology for the issuance of permits in the first place.
 
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Dreamer

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Of course, the predicate to that would be that there was a uniform and equitable methodology for the issuance of permits in the first place.


There IS a uniform policy for the issuance of "unrestricted" permits for self-defense in MD.

Either you:
1) have have official proof (a police report) of being violently attacked and have survived with enough of your person intact to submit an application, or
2) you meet the "WWW" requirement (Wealthy, White, and Well-connected), or
3) you are a significant campaign contributor to the Governor, or
4) you are a frothingly anti-gun legislator (yeah, we're talking about YOU, Babs and Brian...)


As long as yo can meet at least ONE of the above requirements, you can get an "unrestricted" permit in MD. Seems pretty straight-forward to me... :banghead:
 
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virginiatuck

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Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
what about carrying a black powder handgun in MD?

For example, an 1851 Colt Navy Cap 'n Ball Revolver?

I haven't found any law against it in Maryland since most black powder antiques (pre-1899) are specifically excluded from the "pistol" law(s). That is, except if it is carried or used with criminal intent. The criminal intent law for antiques was added in response to criminals using antique firearms to commit crimes due to the lesser penalty (no cite available for that, just hear-say). There have been at least one or two threads on this subject in this forum and the relevant laws have been cited there. Good luck with the crappy forum search option, though. I would try google search with "site:eek:pencarry.org" as part of the search string.

I wouldn't try it, though, except in the direst of circumstances. Best to just stay out of the state altogether.
 

MD_Tim

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Group Meeting with MD State Police a few years back.

A while back, 5 years or so, the Md State Police Superintendent and his deputy for licensing held two meetings several months apart with gun activists to see if there was anything that could be done to improve the permit process.

They did stream line the procedure and stop some of the ridiculous stuff they were doing, but in the end they admitted it was a subjective process and the Superintendent would NOT use his statutory authority to determine what was a good and sufficient reason for carrying a gun. He punted to the Md general assembly, which of course would not do anything.

Several things of note I remember him saying; the amount of money you transport for business was immaterial. Fifty dollars was as good as five hundred to him (I remember a woman standing up and asking if her kids weren’t worth more than $50.00) where a permit was concerned. An Instructor brought up that he regularly transported handguns worth a great deal of money as part of his class and the Super did say he would give that consideration. At the time I thought even collectors might be able to get a restricted permit when transporting their collection, but then I moved to Virginia, carry heaven, and forgot all about Maryland.
 

district9

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A while back, 5 years or so, the Md State Police Superintendent and his deputy for licensing held two meetings several months apart with gun activists to see if there was anything that could be done to improve the permit process.

They did stream line the procedure and stop some of the ridiculous stuff they were doing, but in the end they admitted it was a subjective process and the Superintendent would NOT use his statutory authority to determine what was a good and sufficient reason for carrying a gun. He punted to the Md general assembly, which of course would not do anything.

Several things of note I remember him saying; the amount of money you transport for business was immaterial. Fifty dollars was as good as five hundred to him (I remember a woman standing up and asking if her kids weren’t worth more than $50.00) where a permit was concerned. An Instructor brought up that he regularly transported handguns worth a great deal of money as part of his class and the Super did say he would give that consideration. At the time I thought even collectors might be able to get a restricted permit when transporting their collection, but then I moved to Virginia, carry heaven, and forgot all about Maryland.

The application itself seems pretty straightforward. G&SR is the sticking point. When you say they admitted it was a subjective process, does that mean there really is no statutory definition of G&SR? What is this "apprehended" fear or danger stuff all about, as well as the requirement of police reports/witness accounts to substantiate the "apprehended" fear/danger? Does that apply to all SD applicants?
 

Mr H

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AA Co., Maryland, USA
The application itself seems pretty straightforward. G&SR is the sticking point. When you say they admitted it was a subjective process, does that mean there really is no statutory definition of G&SR? What is this "apprehended" fear or danger stuff all about, as well as the requirement of police reports/witness accounts to substantiate the "apprehended" fear/danger? Does that apply to all SD applicants?

As I understand it, yes... it is completely subjective, and at the whim of the review board.

There is no firm definition of "Good and Substantial", though there are some implied standards (large sums of cash, pharmacy) which work better than others.

"Apprehended danger" is generally required (again, as I understand it) to have several corroborating witnesses, reports, affidavits... none of which are guaranteed to secure a permit.

The thrust of Woolard v. Sheridan is the assertion by MSP that Mr. Woolard no longer met the same burden that once justified a permit, so MSP felt justified in disapproving his renewal.

Hope this helps (and if I missed something, I'm more than willing to be corrected).
 

Sig229

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Wasn't there a group of MD CHL applicants who were denied and suing the state police?
What ever happened to that?

Since MD does a a permit, but rarely issued it based on a troopers "opinion" of whether the applicant has a substantial need. A law suit for discrimination would seem to be a good starting point to me.
Perhaps teh NRA-ILA could get involved. They have the best firearm rights attorneys in the nation.
 

Grapeshot

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--snip--
Perhaps teh NRA-ILA could get involved. They have the best firearm rights attorneys in the nation.

That is very much open to discussion. Suffice to say I do not agree at all, but most particularly where OC might be involved - the NRA does have its agenda to consider.
 
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