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Thread: Folklife 2011 - City of Seattle still ignoring Chan v. Seattle ruling

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    Folklife 2011 - City of Seattle still ignoring Chan v. Seattle ruling

    http://www.nwfolklifefestival.org/ge...et-performers/

    City of Seattle Firearms Policy

    All persons, except law enforcement officers, are prohibited from possessing any firearm on the permitted premises. You must adhere to this prohibition and take reasonable steps to notify all persons who work or participate with you on the premises of Seattle Center of this prohibition either verbally or in writing, and you must enforce this prohibition for the duration of your use of the Seattle Center grounds.


    What's the next step?
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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    So... Is this on Private or Public property? If Public, do they ever learn?
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    So... Is this on Private or Public property? If Public, do they ever learn?
    It's public, and is being quoted as a "city of seattle" rule.

    What I think is important, is to note that the city may restrict vendors from engaging in the sale of firearms, but may not apply policies that apply to the general public. From PNWSA v. Sequim: "The critical point is that the conditions the city imposed related to a permit for private use of its property.   They were not laws or regulations of application to the general public."
    Last edited by Tawnos; 05-28-2011 at 01:40 PM.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    It's public, and is being quoted as a "city of seattle" rule.

    What I think is important, is to note that the city may restrict vendors from engaging in the sale of firearms, but may not apply policies that apply to the general public. From PNWSA v. Sequim: "The critical point is that the conditions the city imposed related to a permit for private use of its property.   They were not laws or regulations of application to the general public."

    So I have a feeling that some OCers are going to be at the Folklife festival, then? Lol
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    So I have a feeling that some OCers are going to be at the Folklife festival, then? Lol
    I hope so, I can't make it over there, as my weekend is already packed.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    I hope so, I can't make it over there, as my weekend is already packed.
    I'd go, but I am broke and can't even afford to make the trek on the ferry to get there. Also, I couldn't find anything there that interested me in the least...
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

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    Sounds like Seattle is enforcing an illegal condition on a tenant.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanf View Post
    Sounds like Seattle is enforcing an illegal condition on a tenant.
    Not according to the State Supreme Court. Regulations on lessors of public property are allowed.

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-suprem...t/1152139.html

    PACIFIC NORTHWEST SHOOTING PARK ASSOCIATION v. CITY OF SEQUIM
    Last edited by amlevin; 05-28-2011 at 04:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Not according to the State Supreme Court. Regulations on lessors of public property are allowed.

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-suprem...t/1152139.html

    PACIFIC NORTHWEST SHOOTING PARK ASSOCIATION v. CITY OF SEQUIM
    I quoted that already, and showed why it doesn't apply. Regulations allowed by that are held upon the lessees only, not the general public in attendance to the lessee's function(s).
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
    I quoted that already, and showed why it doesn't apply. Regulations allowed by that are held upon the lessees only, not the general public in attendance to the lessee's function(s).
    The City regulates the Lessee and makes it a condition of their contract that the public be excluded from the leased venue if they are carrying firearms. Just like the Football and Baseball stadiums.
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    The City regulates the Lessee and makes it a condition of their contract that the public be excluded from the leased venue if they are carrying firearms. Just like the Football and Baseball stadiums.
    Again, that's in violation of the PNWSA ruling, because the city is imposing a condition that applies to the general public. Moreover, they don't do that for the stadiums: the sports teams playing there generally make the no-firearms rules.

    Basically, the city is acting to limit firearms through a legal handwaving. There's no practical difference between the city banning firearms on city owned property and the city imposing a condition on all users of the property that they ban firearms carried by the general public.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    What a sham by Seattle, I will also add the following RCW's and note the red to the exemptions, note "PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state."

    RCW 70.108.020
    Definitions.

    For the purposes of this chapter the following words and phrases shall have the indicated meanings:

    (1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

    (2) "Promoter" means any person or other legal entity issued a permit to conduct an outdoor music festival.

    (3) "Applicant" means the promoter who has the right of control of the conduct of an outdoor music festival who applies to the appropriate legislative authority for a license to hold an outdoor music festival.

    (4) "Issuing authority" means the legislative body of the local governmental unit where the site for an outdoor music festival is located.

    (5) "Participate" means to knowingly provide or deliver to the festival site supplies, materials, food, lumber, beverages, sound equipment, generators, or musical entertainment and/or to attend a music festival. A person shall be presumed to have knowingly provided as that phrase is used herein after he has been served with a court order.
    RCW 70.108.030
    Permits — Required — Compliance with rules and regulations.

    No person or other legal entity shall knowingly allow, conduct, hold, maintain, cause to be advertised or permit an outdoor music festival unless a valid permit has been obtained from the issuing authority for the operation of such music festival as provided for by this chapter. One such permit shall be required for each outdoor music festival. A permit may be granted for a period not to exceed sixteen consecutive days and a festival may be operated during any or all of the days within such period. Any person, persons, partnership, corporation, association, society, fraternal or social organization, failing to comply with the rules, regulations or conditions contained in this chapter shall be subject to the appropriate penalties as prescribed by this chapter.
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