An Anarchist, and bonehead F.B.I. Agents

PrayingForWar · Jun 2, 2011

Dreamer said:
Attacking the sanity of your opponent was one of the favorite "strategies" of the KGB, and is one of the more underhanded strategies detailed in "Rules for Radicals"...

It works for the Sheeple who are too lazy to do the research themselves, and are easily influenced by appeals to emotion.

Just sayin'...

You're right. Documentaries by the BBC probably aren't much more reliable than Wiki...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fB6nViwJcM

And a book published by a top Swiss historical academic, where she quotes an ex-Prime Minister of Italy regarding this op are probably untrustworthy as well:

http://www.amazon.com/NATOs-Secret-Armies-Operation-Contemporary/dp/0714685003

You are intellectually lazy, and you have NO knowledge of geopolitical history.

I would feel genuinely sorry for you, if you weren't so heavily invested in your own irredeemable ignorance...

As it is, I find your ad-hominem attacks and silly coincidence-theory stance on geopolitics to be a delightful opportunity to educate my fellow forum members on the truth of 20th century geopolitics, propaganda, and psycho-socio control.

Thank you for your service to this forum...

You're welcome, and obviously you're doing a great job.

For those of you who find yourself influenced by Dreamer's bull$#!t, keep in mind that history does not reflect well on revolutions based on class warfare, initiated by people who beat the drum against whatever aristocracy or wealthy elite oppressed them. Those same agitators were working on behalf of "the people", and in many cases were killed by those whom they brought to power.

I think Dreamer is confusing S-N-L with the KGB. The KGB's "favorite strategy" was to plant agitators amoung the people, arrest and KILL those who reacted positively. My use of Alinsky tactics to ridicule someone who whines about "ad hominem attacks" right after calling me intellectually lazy, is coincidently funny as well.

marshaul · Jun 2, 2011

I think you'd do well to not dismiss Dreamer outright. Consider his claims. The paranoid are of value in reminding us that things may not always be as they seem, and they are occasionally right as well.

Dreamer is, in my opinion, often a little over the top with his theories.

This, however, is not one of those instances, I'm afraid. His input here is actually quite sane, and supportable.

PrayingForWar · Jun 2, 2011

marshaul said:
I think you'd do well to not dismiss Dreamer outright. Consider his claims. The paranoid are of value in reminding us that things may not always be as they seem, and they are occasionally right as well.

Dreamer is, in my opinion, often a little over the top with his theories.

This, however, is not one of those instances, I'm afraid. His input here is actually quite sane, and supportable.

I'll grant that gov't agents often do pretend to be just part of the malcontent rabble, be it in a leftist anti-war protest, or in a tea party rally. However it seems like these infiltrators are easily singled out since most people are not inclined to violence and destruction, or overtly bigoted displays.

Dreamer correctly points out the tyranny of the left, but then insists that those people on the left involved in riots and mayhem were led, organized, and funded by the government? If leftists within the government are attempting to alter public opinion, by committing heinous acts thereby offending the public, exactly how does that promote their cause?

I have yet to see a single credible instance where leftist riots and violence can be conclusively, as in proved in a court of law, blamed on the purposeful intent of government agents. Such actions would not only be extremely illegal, but lead to a scandal no journalistic media outlet in the world wouldn't expose to the world.

Dreamer digs deep to find the info that suits his narrative, but then he's called the same sources he's used to support his arguments, "shills of the NWO" when they run stories that call into question his narrative. In a manner of speaking, he wants his brownies and be able to eat them too. For those of us who say "no thanks", we're told we need to "wake up". I say the nightmare is his, and since I "woke up" from that world I've found reality to be much more comfortable.

Daylen · Jun 3, 2011

PrayingForWar said:
I'll grant that gov't agents often do pretend to be just part of the malcontent rabble, be it in a leftist anti-war protest, or in a tea party rally. However it seems like these infiltrators are easily singled out since most people are not inclined to violence and destruction, or overtly bigoted displays.

Dreamer correctly points out the tyranny of the left, but then insists that those people on the left involved in riots and mayhem were led, organized, and funded by the government? If leftists within the government are attempting to alter public opinion, by committing heinous acts thereby offending the public, exactly how does that promote their cause?

I have yet to see a single credible instance where leftist riots and violence can be conclusively, as in proved in a court of law, blamed on the purposeful intent of government agents. Such actions would not only be extremely illegal, but lead to a scandal no journalistic media outlet in the world wouldn't expose to the world.

Dreamer digs deep to find the info that suits his narrative, but then he's called the same sources he's used to support his arguments, "shills of the NWO" when they run stories that call into question his narrative. In a manner of speaking, he wants his brownies and be able to eat them too. For those of us who say "no thanks", we're told we need to "wake up". I say the nightmare is his, and since I "woke up" from that world I've found reality to be much more comfortable.

Interesting way to put it. Violent anarchists and lefties are being led and controlled by government lefties.

PrayingForWar · Jun 4, 2011

Daylen said:
Interesting way to put it. Violent anarchists and lefties are being led and controlled by government lefties.

Just for the sake of entertaining an arguement, lets put in a hypothetical scenario that the remnants of the John Birch Society were active in the CIA, and imbedded themselves in the leftist groups that commit heinous acts just for the purpose of inciting the sort of violence society rejects. Considering the fact that some truly leftwing (deleted adjectives) zealots are active in every sphere of government influence, does it not lead a person to conclude these operatives would be exposed?

The government is not an entity comprised of people who have a single agenda, it is an entity that contains people from all of society with every bit of the diversity in oppinion and agenda reflected in our society. Therefore the idea that a group of people within the government could conspire to fund, organize people, and initiate criminal activity out in the open without someone in the bureaucracy throwing up red flags at many levels is the hallmark of absurdity. Such ideas are fit for movies, but for those of us who can seperate reality from fantasy it is cause for contempt when such ideas are promoted for the sole purpose of undermining the efforts of men concerned with combating agendas that will certainly compromise peaceful society.

I'd like to think that this is evident in the recent scandal regarding the ATF. An insipid operation led to traceable weapons killing agents. Other agents went public and exposed it to the detriment of their own careers.

Gunslinger · Jun 8, 2011

rotorhead said:
Exactly. No government, no borders, none of it. Complete individual self-rule is the general idea.

It's rather hard to achieve complete anarchy in practice, though. In fact, I don't think it's ever happened to any significant degree. I'll say it's pretty much impossible in today's world. I think the opportunity has long since passed.

You're talking about a Rousseau/John Locke "Natural Man" concept, not anarchy. If you choose to ditch "Civil Order Society" you move to natural where you are left alone to live as you choose--apart from those who choose to stay in civil society. It is not anarchy, although you could make a case that it is the perfection of that desire.

But, everyone is overlooking the insidious side of this thread. The fbi--hanssen, Ruby Ridge and Waco murders of innocent women and children, Hoover in his best dress...spends taxpayer money invading the privacy of citizens of this country without due process. No probable cause, not evern RAS could be established to stop this guy on the street. Dossiers, NKVD tactics, guilt by association--did they check the license number of the kid who delivers Pizza Hut to him, as well? Just like under that pos reno, totalitarian tacts are back on the front burner. I don't gas about his politics, as long as he is non-violent. I care about our current day secret police and their **** the law and the constitution attitude.

since9 · Jun 9, 2011

PrayingForWar said:
The government is not an entity comprised of people who have a single agenda, it is an entity that contains people from all of society with every bit of the diversity in oppinion and agenda reflected in our society.

Exactly. There's no conspiracy. There are simply the few who can think their way out of a paper bag, and then there are the rest.

sudden valley gunner · Jun 9, 2011

OC for ME said:
J. Edgar Hoover is alive and well. :arrow:

As bad as J. Edgar Hoover was he would be disgusted at how far they have gone.

You know he proactively refused entrapment techniques that they so commonly use now.

Gunslinger · Jun 10, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
As bad as J. Edgar Hoover was he would be disgusted at how far they have gone.

You know he proactively refused entrapment techniques that they so commonly use now.

I don't recall him advocating the murder of innocent women and children, either. Or treason. Or the continuing theft of laptops, firearms and who knows what else. The fbi has become a rogue agency. All they need are attractive armbands to wear. I can even suggest the letters to appear on them.

since9 · Jun 10, 2011

Gunslinger said:
The fbi has become a rogue agency. All they need are attractive armbands to wear. I can even suggest the letters to appear on them.

Why waste a letter? I hear there's a sort of kink-armed symbol that fell into disuse about 60 years ago...

No, I really don't think the FBI is that bad. However, federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies need the same sort of PUBLIC checks and balances that (sort of) keep the branches of our federal government in line. I don't believe the various oversight committees or their internal oversight is up to the task.

PrayingForWar · Jun 10, 2011

since9 said:
Why waste a letter? I hear there's a sort of kink-armed symbol that fell into disuse about 60 years ago...

No, I really don't think the FBI is that bad. However, federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies need the same sort of PUBLIC checks and balances that (sort of) keep the branches of our federal government in line. I don't believe the various oversight committees or their internal oversight is up to the task.

Seems to me the only law enforcement function of the FBI should be to investigate government corruption within state and local agencies, while the states should be able to prosecute the feds for corruption within state boundaries. Law enforcement should be limited to the state authorities.

marshaul · Jun 10, 2011

PrayingForWar said:
Seems to me the only law enforcement function of the FBI should be to investigate government corruption within state and local agencies, while the states should be able to prosecute the feds for corruption within state boundaries. Law enforcement should be limited to the state authorities.

This could work.

Dreamer · Jun 10, 2011

PrayingForWar said:
Seems to me the only law enforcement function of the FBI should be to investigate government corruption within state and local agencies, while the states should be able to prosecute the feds for corruption within state boundaries. Law enforcement should be limited to the state authorities.

Only one problem I see with this...

Foxes and henhouses...

KBCraig · Jun 11, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
As bad as J. Edgar Hoover was he would be disgusted at how far they have gone.

You know he proactively refused entrapment techniques that they so commonly use now.

Daniel Ellsburg: "All the crimes Richard Nixon committed against me are now legal."

Dreamer · Jun 11, 2011

sudden valley gunner said:
As bad as J. Edgar Hoover was he would be disgusted at how far they have gone.

You know he proactively refused entrapment techniques that they so commonly use now.

Yeah, he would be disgusted by closeted homosexuals in government who actively harassed other "out" gays in government and attempted to ruin their careers, because he never did anything like that...

And he DEFINITELY would be disgusted by government denials of the existence of a a large, international criminal conspiracy for DECADES, because he never did anything like that either...

And they would have NEVER framed low-level criminals for the actions of kingpins, protecting the kingpins so that they could make the Bureau look good in the public eye, but not stepping on "important" toes in international organized crime groups...

Yep, Hoover's FBI was a paradigm of Truth, transparency, and fairness...

sudden valley gunner · Jun 11, 2011

J. Edgar Hoover was not a "good" guy he was a jack off, but the few limitations he had the modern FBI have done away with.

An Anarchist, and bonehead F.B.I. Agents

PrayingForWar

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