slocav
Regular Member
That's because there aren't any. Ky is open carry state you broke no laws.
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Encounter while camping...
- Thread starter DrakeZ07
- Start date
That's because there aren't any. Ky is open carry state you broke no laws.
Ford
Regular Member
Wow, I don't get to the gorge much anymore but when I do I'll be sure to OC instead of CC. Maybe I'll run into these same fellows. I can't believe they told you that... I would have had to correct them/argue with them over it. I will probably print off fresh copies of the pertinent laws just in case...
Oh yeah, and I'm pro 2A and can build a good fire. Firebuilding just takes practice.
Oh yeah, and I'm pro 2A and can build a good fire. Firebuilding just takes practice.
KBCraig
Regular Member
Then they should do so, instead of making it up on the fly.
Other than rules for things like "no loaded guns in campgrounds" (widely ignored), USFS assimilates state law. Whatever the firearm law is in Kentucky, is what it is in Daniel Boone National Forest.
Bill Starks
State Researcher
USDA Forest Service
http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/about/forestContacts.php?p=1.1.9.1
Gun laws for National Forests/National Parks are the laws of the state in which it resides (if you can CC or OC, your are legal to carry). However any tickets you get have to be taken care of in Federal Court. Get to know 36 CFR 261 (.10 & .58)
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_04/36cfr261_04.html
I had an encounter out here in Washington State where the Ranger told me I couldn't carry a firearm in his forest as his section of the forest was closed to weapons. I wrote to the Regional Forester and asked a few rule making questions and received a nice letter back confirming my thoughts. When I went back to that area I was approached by the same Ranger and was told I was going to be cited and have my weapon relieved. I presented him a copy of the letter I received which promptly shut him up.
A copy of the letter can be found here:
http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=41
What was the reasoning for stopping you in the tunnel? other than a fishing expedition to get you on something?
http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/about/forestContacts.php?p=1.1.9.1
Gun laws for National Forests/National Parks are the laws of the state in which it resides (if you can CC or OC, your are legal to carry). However any tickets you get have to be taken care of in Federal Court. Get to know 36 CFR 261 (.10 & .58)
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_04/36cfr261_04.html
I had an encounter out here in Washington State where the Ranger told me I couldn't carry a firearm in his forest as his section of the forest was closed to weapons. I wrote to the Regional Forester and asked a few rule making questions and received a nice letter back confirming my thoughts. When I went back to that area I was approached by the same Ranger and was told I was going to be cited and have my weapon relieved. I presented him a copy of the letter I received which promptly shut him up.
A copy of the letter can be found here:
http://forum.nwcdl.org/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=41
What was the reasoning for stopping you in the tunnel? other than a fishing expedition to get you on something?
rentamedic
Regular Member
To:The OP
I have my KY EMT numbers what part of the state are you in?
I would say the paper is nothing to keep you from REcert
I have my KY EMT numbers what part of the state are you in?
I would say the paper is nothing to keep you from REcert
DrakeZ07
Regular Member
Eastern, Sharkey; Eh, I'll talk to a friend of mine with KBEMS about the ticket, but I still have another year before Recert.
Also, nice to see another EMT on here; Basic I assume?
rescue743
Regular Member
Another Basic
There are a lot more EMT's and Medics on here than you realize. I am a basic and I OC an CC. I had an experience like yours at one time with one of my local LEO's. I was OCing at 19 or 20 can't remember, but I had my gun on and a local LEO who I have known for a while came to me and told me it was illegal with what I was doing. I told him that I was within the law to open carry. We argued for about 10 min and he told me not to leave that he would be right back. He went and got the MOTHER KRS book the printed version and came back flipped it to possesion of a minor. It read like all of us know that any persons under the age of 18 is guilty of possesion of a minor with a handgun. He still tried to tell me I had to be 21. The sergent told the LEO's that if they seen me OC again to arrest me. I went to the mayor of my town (who I knew again) and his exact words were "if they keep aggravating you let them arrest you and counter sue for wrongful arrest and file for damages". It is sad when civilians know more about the law then the law enforcement does.
There are a lot more EMT's and Medics on here than you realize. I am a basic and I OC an CC. I had an experience like yours at one time with one of my local LEO's. I was OCing at 19 or 20 can't remember, but I had my gun on and a local LEO who I have known for a while came to me and told me it was illegal with what I was doing. I told him that I was within the law to open carry. We argued for about 10 min and he told me not to leave that he would be right back. He went and got the MOTHER KRS book the printed version and came back flipped it to possesion of a minor. It read like all of us know that any persons under the age of 18 is guilty of possesion of a minor with a handgun. He still tried to tell me I had to be 21. The sergent told the LEO's that if they seen me OC again to arrest me. I went to the mayor of my town (who I knew again) and his exact words were "if they keep aggravating you let them arrest you and counter sue for wrongful arrest and file for damages". It is sad when civilians know more about the law then the law enforcement does.
Gunslinger
Regular Member
Wow, you got the chance to talk to not one, but TWO morons on the same trip! Unless you violated a KY law, which I can't see how, you violated no Federal Statute. The laws of the state in which the NFS property resides govern firearms within its confines, period, same as NPS now.
The second idiot says "or on the seat..." How is that different in terms of being clearly visible than where you had the pistol? Like I said, lucky you. 2 *****.
The second idiot says "or on the seat..." How is that different in terms of being clearly visible than where you had the pistol? Like I said, lucky you. 2 *****.
This is a little off subject but my wife was in a fender bender here in Lex and a cop (with my wifes permisison) was helping her find the insurance card in the glove box. He sees my fully loaded 9mm 1 in the chamber and asks her why do you have a gun in the glove box you can't have that in here. She tells him yeah I can. He continues trying to find the ins card then tell her to make sure she takes the gun out when she gets home.
I know that LEO's can't know it all but they should be up to date on how to carry in a car. I called Lex Police and State troppers a few days ago to ask about HB 313 and carry in the center console their answer was no its illegal only in the glovebox. You think they'd get weekly updates on changes in the law. THAT IS ALL.
I know that LEO's can't know it all but they should be up to date on how to carry in a car. I called Lex Police and State troppers a few days ago to ask about HB 313 and carry in the center console their answer was no its illegal only in the glovebox. You think they'd get weekly updates on changes in the law. THAT IS ALL.
Badger Johnson
Regular Member
Since the chief worry of LEOs when stopping people for driving infractions (besides safe driving) is the possession, carry, storage and handling of HG, legal and illegal (both are important), you'd think they'd have a big poster on the wall with cites and quotes and references as to what, exactly, was legal and what was not.
Because:
1. If they violate rights they can be sued;
2. If they do the wrong thing (handling legal guns) there could be NDs;
3. They'd want to tell civilians the right and correct and lawful information so as not to be perceived as, well, let's just say uninformed about their J.O.B.
But, that's just me...
Because:
1. If they violate rights they can be sued;
2. If they do the wrong thing (handling legal guns) there could be NDs;
3. They'd want to tell civilians the right and correct and lawful information so as not to be perceived as, well, let's just say uninformed about their J.O.B.
But, that's just me...
UnfetteredMight
Regular Member
Fortunately, court precedence has shown qualified immunity does not protect them in our case. Though it was for the "seizure" portion of the 4th and not the 2A in a federal court case I read, the violation of the fourth is a step they have to perform, so it works just the same. I dont know why the plantiff didnt file for 2 violations under 42 USC 1983.
As for OC being risky, i believe and so far it has been my experience, that if you articulate and act sure of yourself, youll do just fine.
Bill Starks
State Researcher
Maybe if we can get some backing, we could get a bunch made up and mailed to the trouble areas?
DrakeZ07
Regular Member
So got a couple questions...
I went camping Friday night and portions of Saturday, thats the 4th of july weekend btw.
I was drinking with some "friends" around a campfire, and enjoying the firework display by a different group of campers who was sitting on a concrete bridge, drinking, and firing off rockets and roman candles.
the other group made back for their camp after the fireworks was done, and drunkenly/lazily picked up some of the fireworks.
a couple hours later, some forest rangers pulled up to our campsite, and saw we was drinking beer around a campfire. Having checked us for weapons, they searched our tents, and clothing duffle bags, and such. They had a couple of us who was tipsy, and another who was obviously drunk up against their truck, and gave us a 75$ ticket "drinking an alcoholic beverage on public property", no biggie about the fine, but I'm gonna get to the point.
I mentioned that I have a loaded revolver sitting against a tree, in it's holster, with an empty shell under the hammer, for protection against bears, about fifteen feet away. They grabbed it, politely asked why I had it out; which I told them the truth, again, for protection against bears. One of them walked off with it, the other two just stayed around, asking usual questions.
I found out later that they just unloaded it, and hide the ammo, i dunno where yet, havent found the ammo (unloaded pistol is sorta useless against a bear if I can't find ammo).
Anyway, if you have a pistol, and your drinking beer, you designate a sober person to keep watch on said pistol; when the sober person is declared sober by a forrest ranger, can they still grab it, and keep it in their vehicle until they leave and give it back to that sober person later, as they did?
Also, our vehicles was unlocked, and open windows, they searched one dudes truck, without giving a reason why, despite him being a nurse and we all know he to be the cleanest of us all, and the designated sober person; I thought they needed a warrant to search a vehicle.
Also, a stupid move on the part of one drunken guy, who I only met at the campsite, but anyway, he doesn't have a CCW permit, but kept an empty holster in his car, and the pistol hidden under a jacket by the campfire. When they saw it, they asked who's it was, when I and a couple others told them it was that one dude's, he denied and said it wasn't his.
I know we all got off lucky with just a 75$ fine, I know we could have been ran in for it, but, the rangers said if I pay it, it'll be on my criminal record for three years, that my best bet is to just go to district court and see a judge about it.
If I pay it off, will it still be on my record, since it's a first, I have a spotless record, and really don't want to go to court. Will that ticket affect my ability to get/renew a CCW in the future, or hurt my chances for employment? Is it a felony, misdemeanor, or otherwise?
Sorry for the confusion, but its hard to type when you have -what feels like- a broken hand, after the idiot who hid his weapon slammed his door on my hand for telling the cops the pistol was his.
For the record, that is the first time I drank alcoholic drinks at a campsite, never payed attention to the parking pass, and didn't see any "NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES" signs out there, I know I was wrong, I just need to know about the vehicle search, the temp. seizure of the pistol, and the ticket effects on my record, CCW future, and weather to do the court, or mail it in.
Needless to say, this is the last time I go camping with a bunch of gay city dudes. Any OC/2A camping clubs out east here, that actually doesn't drink at a campsite and don't care about a gay dude at their camps?
Really wish it was Menifee Sheriffs Dept that came out, I know the deputy sheriff, and he would have at least gave warnings, and spared me a ticket, dunno about the dude who was obviously drunk and told the rangers he drove from harrodsburg on expired tags and no license (funny how they overlooked that part, ever after they confirmed it)
I went camping Friday night and portions of Saturday, thats the 4th of july weekend btw.
I was drinking with some "friends" around a campfire, and enjoying the firework display by a different group of campers who was sitting on a concrete bridge, drinking, and firing off rockets and roman candles.
the other group made back for their camp after the fireworks was done, and drunkenly/lazily picked up some of the fireworks.
a couple hours later, some forest rangers pulled up to our campsite, and saw we was drinking beer around a campfire. Having checked us for weapons, they searched our tents, and clothing duffle bags, and such. They had a couple of us who was tipsy, and another who was obviously drunk up against their truck, and gave us a 75$ ticket "drinking an alcoholic beverage on public property", no biggie about the fine, but I'm gonna get to the point.
I mentioned that I have a loaded revolver sitting against a tree, in it's holster, with an empty shell under the hammer, for protection against bears, about fifteen feet away. They grabbed it, politely asked why I had it out; which I told them the truth, again, for protection against bears. One of them walked off with it, the other two just stayed around, asking usual questions.
I found out later that they just unloaded it, and hide the ammo, i dunno where yet, havent found the ammo (unloaded pistol is sorta useless against a bear if I can't find ammo).
Anyway, if you have a pistol, and your drinking beer, you designate a sober person to keep watch on said pistol; when the sober person is declared sober by a forrest ranger, can they still grab it, and keep it in their vehicle until they leave and give it back to that sober person later, as they did?
Also, our vehicles was unlocked, and open windows, they searched one dudes truck, without giving a reason why, despite him being a nurse and we all know he to be the cleanest of us all, and the designated sober person; I thought they needed a warrant to search a vehicle.
Also, a stupid move on the part of one drunken guy, who I only met at the campsite, but anyway, he doesn't have a CCW permit, but kept an empty holster in his car, and the pistol hidden under a jacket by the campfire. When they saw it, they asked who's it was, when I and a couple others told them it was that one dude's, he denied and said it wasn't his.
I know we all got off lucky with just a 75$ fine, I know we could have been ran in for it, but, the rangers said if I pay it, it'll be on my criminal record for three years, that my best bet is to just go to district court and see a judge about it.
If I pay it off, will it still be on my record, since it's a first, I have a spotless record, and really don't want to go to court. Will that ticket affect my ability to get/renew a CCW in the future, or hurt my chances for employment? Is it a felony, misdemeanor, or otherwise?
Sorry for the confusion, but its hard to type when you have -what feels like- a broken hand, after the idiot who hid his weapon slammed his door on my hand for telling the cops the pistol was his.
For the record, that is the first time I drank alcoholic drinks at a campsite, never payed attention to the parking pass, and didn't see any "NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES" signs out there, I know I was wrong, I just need to know about the vehicle search, the temp. seizure of the pistol, and the ticket effects on my record, CCW future, and weather to do the court, or mail it in.
Needless to say, this is the last time I go camping with a bunch of gay city dudes. Any OC/2A camping clubs out east here, that actually doesn't drink at a campsite and don't care about a gay dude at their camps?
Really wish it was Menifee Sheriffs Dept that came out, I know the deputy sheriff, and he would have at least gave warnings, and spared me a ticket, dunno about the dude who was obviously drunk and told the rangers he drove from harrodsburg on expired tags and no license (funny how they overlooked that part, ever after they confirmed it)
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KYGlockster
Activist Member
As far as having a loaded weapon and drinking there is now law that says u can't do so. The search of your vehicle seems to be illegal since you weren't drinking and driving. As far as them disarming you, if u can even call it that since the revolver wasnt immediately accessible to you, I don't know if that was Legal or not. I don't know what type of offense drinking on public property is, but if you didn't get arrested I'll assume it isn't criminal, so I don't see how they would have the authority to disarm you. Like I said, it isn't a crime to have a firearm and drink, and certainly isn't a crime to have firearm on state property. I'm sure somebody on here will know exactly if you have had your rights violated, but it certainly seems to me that you have.
CharleyCherokee
Regular Member
I'm thinking that it was a local statute they got you on. Where did this happen? Definitely sounds like some rights got stepped on.
langzaiguy
Regular Member
Most, if not all, state and local parks have a ban on alcohol. I know some national parks that allow it. Personally, I don't have a problem if a cop wants to relocate a gun to make their job easier. That being said, I wouldn't allow it out of my site and they wouldn't have probable cause or permission to run the numbers. As for searching your tents--I don't know man. Don't know if they would have RAS to do that considering the laws being broken or not.
My advice--wanted or not--is to always understand the law if you're carrying a firearm. Understand the extent of your rights and try to be responsible and beyond reproach.
My advice--wanted or not--is to always understand the law if you're carrying a firearm. Understand the extent of your rights and try to be responsible and beyond reproach.
UnfetteredMight
Regular Member
Wow, so you were armed against the bears and completely disarmed against the LEOs. By that of course I mean not having any legal knowledge or maybe even the grounds to protest.
Well heres my take on it. You committed a crime drinking in public, its most likely a misdemeanor, you can probably get it amended down considering your lack of a record. If not, itll be on your record for 5 years and then you can get it expunged. Probably wont affect employment as long as your honest about it and no it wont stop you from getting a CCDW. Them searching without an arrest was illegal but is a common tactic when they can perform an arrest, but choose to cite instead. The only person I would say has a rock solid case would be the guy who was sober if he or his belongings were searched. This case is a bit of a grey area for the rest of you, consult a lawyer.
Well heres my take on it. You committed a crime drinking in public, its most likely a misdemeanor, you can probably get it amended down considering your lack of a record. If not, itll be on your record for 5 years and then you can get it expunged. Probably wont affect employment as long as your honest about it and no it wont stop you from getting a CCDW. Them searching without an arrest was illegal but is a common tactic when they can perform an arrest, but choose to cite instead. The only person I would say has a rock solid case would be the guy who was sober if he or his belongings were searched. This case is a bit of a grey area for the rest of you, consult a lawyer.