Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 69

Thread: Concealed carry at Safeco Field - MOVED TO WASHINGTON FORUM

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ellensburg, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5

    Concealed carry at Safeco Field - MOVED TO WASHINGTON FORUM

    My friend plans to go to a baseball game at Safeco Field in Seattle. She has a Washington Concealed Handgun License.

    She takes self-defense seriously, never leaves home without her handgun. She asked me about taking her gun, but I don't know what they do for security there. It's private property, so presumably the owner can ban weapons if they have no regard for the rights of law abiding citizens.

    Does anyone know if there are metal detectors that would cause her a problem?

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ellensburg, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5

    Concealed carry at Safeco Field

    She's going tomorrow, Monday, May 30, so she needs a reply right now! Sorry.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Lord_Kalen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Montesano - outer areas, Washington, USA
    Posts
    43
    I'd suggest asking in the Washington section , however Safeco isnt private from my knowledge , I know for certain it was tax payer funded , and I believe is either county or city owned .

    I believe it was safeco about 9 years ago my cousin attended a game at and was able to carry , though Im not 100% sure on it

  4. #4
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    I know several people who have carried there. I have years ago, but haven't been there in some time.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    If you go to the Mariner's site, it is pretty easy to find their policy on weapons. Here is the link:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/sea/ballpark/info...?content=guide

    Here is the quote:

    Weapons
    For the safety of all guests, weapons will not be permitted in Safeco Field. The only exception to this is law enforcement personnel in the performance of their official duties. The presenter of a game ticket consents to a reasonable search for weapons before entering. Failure to comply with the above conditions will result in no admittance or ejection.
    IANAL, and I know pretty much zip about WA law, so I cannot speak to the lawfulness of this policy. However, if you OC, I bet you get tossed out.

  6. #6
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,461
    FYI, it's owned by the Washington-King County Stadium Authority.

  7. #7
    Regular Member LibertyDeath's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Inland Empire, CA
    Posts
    129
    It is legal for a CHL holder to carry everywhere in WA except bars, courts, schools, and secure areas of airports, jail, and looney bins. Any law passed by a local government agency cannot be applied to anyone with a CHL, period. See RCW 9.41.300

    They didn't have metal detectors three years ago. The search consisted of a quick bag check. Worst they can do is tell you to leave.

  8. #8
    Regular Member NavyMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastside, Washington, USA
    Posts
    196
    Quote Originally Posted by GaryBrown View Post

    Does anyone know if there are metal detectors that would cause her a problem?
    There are no detectors in place. They only ever perform a bag check, so if she carries on her person, she should sail right through.
    cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

  9. #9
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom County
    Posts
    17,338
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    If you go to the Mariner's site, it is pretty easy to find their policy on weapons. Here is the link:

    http://mlb.mlb.com/sea/ballpark/info...?content=guide

    Here is the quote:



    IANAL, and I know pretty much zip about WA law, so I cannot speak to the lawfulness of this policy. However, if you OC, I bet you get tossed out.
    State law RCW 9.41.300:

    (2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

    (a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

    (b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

    (i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

    (ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.
    So although Mariners might ask you to leave you are not breaking any laws. Conceal good and you are good to go.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 05-30-2011 at 11:54 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  10. #10
    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Leesburg, GA
    Posts
    1,098
    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyDeath View Post
    Worst they can do is tell you to leave.
    This.

  11. #11
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    Safeco Field is public property, and as such the leaseholder cannot legally tell you that you cannot legally carry. If they ask you to leave, be sure to get a refund or plan to file in small claims court.

    What I did is, I sent a certified, return receipt requested, letter to the owners office, stating what happened, when and why, and tell them that they have 30 days from the date they receive the letter, or you will file in small claims court for a refund of the cost of the tickets, cost of travel and parking, and all court associated expenses if you do not receive an acceptable negotiated settlement from them first.

    Be prepaired to follow through. Document everything.

    It works, they will try to get you to accept alternate tickets, take $$$$ only...

    The reason this works is at small claims court you must represent yourself, you cannot hire representation..That includes the corporation...If you file a claim against a corporation in small claims court, that corporation MUST send an OFFICER of the company to represent the company (that means CEO, VP, CFO that kind of person) and their time is too valuable (at least in their minds) for a couple hundred dollar small claim appearance that they know they are going to loose anyway. Becasue they do not contest the proceding, you automatically win.

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Are you sure it is public property? Often publicly funded stadia are owned by private corporations set up by the municipality, the county, and/or the State.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    What do they mean by "municipal corporation"? Clearly, they don't mean the term as it is usually used, to mean a village, town, township, or city, incorporated under State law to have geographic corporate limits, residents of the municipality who elect the municipal government, and a municipal government with the authority to pass laws whose violation can result in imposed punishment.

    Are they using the term loosely to say that it is a corporation that is owned by municipalities or other governments?

    The quote sheds light on the question, but does not answer it. Is Safeco field actually owned by a governmental entity that is restricted by preemption, is it a governmental entity in its own right that is restricted by preemption, is it a governmental entity in its own right that is not restricted by preemption, or is it a private entity (even though owned in whole by public entities) that would not be restricted by preemption?

    For example, in Alabama, even if it such an entity were called a "municipal corporation," preemption would not apply. Preemption applies only to counties or municipal corporations that are cities and towns. The law specifically says that municipalities are corporations known as "The City of ________" or "The Town of __________."

    I do not know WA law at all, but unless the stadium authority is part and parcel of a single municipality, I doubt that preemption would apply--or even be relevant, as the park rules are not laws or ordinances, especially as we normally envision them being passed either by elected officials or put in place by an agency that reports to the elected officials under authority given them by the elected officials through laws or ordinances.

  14. #14
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Okanogan Highland
    Posts
    2,332
    Hej Eye!

    Safeco Field is on property that was purchased by public bond funds, the stadium was built with the same public funds. The facility is leased to the user, and the consessions are also leased to to whomever is willing to pay the price.

    We also have what are called "PUD"s or "Public Utility District" muni corps. and "LID"s or "Local imprvement districts". They all act like muni corps and can all issue tax exempt bonds that have to be voted on by those covered by that "District". Basically, they are limited in their specific function, but are treated the same as any other muni corp. RCW 9.41.290 (state preemption) states in part "...Citys, Towns and Counties, or other Municipalities may enact..."

  15. #15
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    So, is the entity that owns the stadium a "municipality" under WA law, as listed in the quoted section? Second, since that entity has leased the stadium to a "user," doesn't the user have, as most leaseholders have, the "right to enjoy" the property, which, under typical law, includes the right to set the conditions under which it invites others onto that property?

    It seems to me that the leaseholder is setting the no-weapons policy, not the municipality (if it is a municipality).

    On edit: BTW, I noticed the way you spelled hi. I lived in Denmark for three years. That's how they spell it. Got Scandinavian links?
    Last edited by eye95; 05-30-2011 at 10:51 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    923
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    So, is the entity that owns the stadium a "municipality" under WA law, as listed in the quoted section? Second, since that entity has leased the stadium to a "user," doesn't the user have, as most leaseholders have, the "right to enjoy" the property, which, under typical law, includes the right to set the conditions under which it invites others onto that property?

    It seems to me that the leaseholder is setting the no-weapons policy, not the municipality (if it is a municipality).
    Preemption applies.

    Public Facility Districts are "Municipalities" under State law with special taxing authority but all their powers are limited to what the County specifically empowers them to do by statute.

    PFDs are ran by a board of directors, the board is mostly appointed to staggered terms by the County council and The City council with another member being appointed by the board its self

    The Washington State laws covering PFDs can be found here: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=36.100


    Preemption in WA. covers all rules, laws and regulations on the possession of firearms. This even includes "rules" put in place by city parks and such. Generally, the only laws Municipalities can pass are laws on the discharge of firearms when there is a reasonable concern for the safety of persons or property, and certain zoning restrictions for dealers.(and in certain cases possession at stadiums for persons with out a CPL)

    Currently in WA. when a private entity leases a public facility such as a stadium or park the private entity often has rules against carrying and can ask you to leave if you don't follow the rules. This (as far as I know) has not been challenged in court yet or at least not in a high court. I am of the opinion that if a private entity exercises the privilege to rent public property then the same restrictions should apply as if the city is running it.

    There is also some controversy because in the city of Seattle it is rumored that they have it as a lease requirement that if you rent the property for your event you must ban firearms at that event. This , if true seems like an obvious violation of preemption.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  17. #17
    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Port Orchard, Washington, United States
    Posts
    504
    Since the field is run by the Public Stadium Authority, I'm assuming Preemption would apply. Although I believe that when the stadium is leased, full control does go to the team leasing it and they "MAY" be allowed to enact rules since the Public Stadium Authority is no longer in control of the Stadium. I could be wrong as I am not a lawyer and I have not been reading legalese very long...

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=36.102.060
    Last edited by xxx.jakk.xxx; 05-31-2011 at 05:56 AM.
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

    Molōn labe!

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by xxx.jakk.xxx View Post
    Since the field is run by the Public Stadium Authority, I'm assuming Preemption would apply. Although I believe that when the stadium is leased, full control does go to the team leasing it and they "MAY" be allowed to enact rules since the Public Stadium Authority is no longer in control of the Stadium. I could be wrong as I am not a lawyer and I have not been reading legalese very long...

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=36.102.060
    After reading your link, I think your take is accurate. E_T_F, your post is quite informative, answering all of my questions. Thanks. However, the above link seems to indicate that the decision on a weapons policy would belong to the Mariners.

  19. #19
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953
    Quote Originally Posted by hermannr View Post
    Safeco Field is public property, and as such the leaseholder cannot legally tell you that you cannot legally carry. If they ask you to leave, be sure to get a refund or plan to file in small claims court.

    What I did is, I sent a certified, return receipt requested, letter to the owners office, stating what happened, when and why, and tell them that they have 30 days from the date they receive the letter, or you will file in small claims court for a refund of the cost of the tickets, cost of travel and parking, and all court associated expenses if you do not receive an acceptable negotiated settlement from them first.

    Be prepaired to follow through. Document everything.

    It works, they will try to get you to accept alternate tickets, take $$$$ only...

    The reason this works is at small claims court you must represent yourself, you cannot hire representation..That includes the corporation...If you file a claim against a corporation in small claims court, that corporation MUST send an OFFICER of the company to represent the company (that means CEO, VP, CFO that kind of person) and their time is too valuable (at least in their minds) for a couple hundred dollar small claim appearance that they know they are going to loose anyway. Becasue they do not contest the proceding, you automatically win.
    What do you do when the party you are suing successfully moves to have the case transferred to Superior Court? Now you have to put up with the lawyers they are paying anyway. It happens all the time. Oh, by the way, if that happens and they prevail you can get stuck with the attorney fees.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,667
    It's legal to carry at Safeco Field, although I would suggest CC as to not wait all game being detained.

    There are no 'metal detectors' just a bag search (presumably for alcohol and WMD's).

    I have CC'd many times at Safeco without incident.
    Live Free or Die!

  21. #21
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Nortonville, KY, USA
    Posts
    4,291
    Simply said here folks is that the stadiums are publicly owned. However they use a third party to run the stadium and that party makes the rules. So, you are not breaking any established laws by carrying but if found they will ask you to leave. Should you refuse you will be trespassed.

    As has been said conceal and conceal well.


    The Tacoma Dome & Cheney Stadium in Tacoma are both city owned and city run thus cannot ask you to leave the facility.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N47º 12’ x W122º 10’
    Posts
    1,762
    Preemption in WA. covers all rules, laws and regulations on the possession of firearms.
    Really? You obviously have't read the RCW in a while. It preempts laws and ordinances, not administrative rules. Furthermore, given that these sorts of municipal corporations do not have the authority to enact laws or ordinances, the preemption RCW is even less relevant.

    Then we have the complicating issue of the private lessee of public property. Why should the private lessee not enjoy full rights of ownership? Those who don't think so, defend your positions.

    Folks there are good arguments on both sides of this. It needs to be settled in court. Right now the administrative rules vis-a-vis preemption issue is up in the air, except in King County (Chan decision.)

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N47º 12’ x W122º 10’
    Posts
    1,762
    Ummmm.....isn't Safeco Field in King County?????
    Uh yeah. I had hoped that people were smart enough not to need the obvious pointed out to them.

    The Chan decision does not affect administrative rules of private entities, which the lessees of Safeco are.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N47º 12’ x W122º 10’
    Posts
    1,762
    Seattle Parks not private, so no. Come on.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    N47º 12’ x W122º 10’
    Posts
    1,762
    But the lessees are.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •