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Concealed carry at Safeco Field - MOVED TO WASHINGTON FORUM

GaryBrown

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
5
Location
Ellensburg, Washington, USA
My friend plans to go to a baseball game at Safeco Field in Seattle. She has a Washington Concealed Handgun License.

She takes self-defense seriously, never leaves home without her handgun. She asked me about taking her gun, but I don't know what they do for security there. It's private property, so presumably the owner can ban weapons if they have no regard for the rights of law abiding citizens.

Does anyone know if there are metal detectors that would cause her a problem?
 

Lord_Kalen

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
43
Location
Montesano - outer areas, Washington, USA
I'd suggest asking in the Washington section , however Safeco isnt private from my knowledge , I know for certain it was tax payer funded , and I believe is either county or city owned .

I believe it was safeco about 9 years ago my cousin attended a game at and was able to carry , though Im not 100% sure on it
 

eye95

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Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
If you go to the Mariner's site, it is pretty easy to find their policy on weapons. Here is the link:

http://mlb.mlb.com/sea/ballpark/information/index.jsp?content=guide

Here is the quote:

Weapons
For the safety of all guests, weapons will not be permitted in Safeco Field. The only exception to this is law enforcement personnel in the performance of their official duties. The presenter of a game ticket consents to a reasonable search for weapons before entering. Failure to comply with the above conditions will result in no admittance or ejection.

IANAL, and I know pretty much zip about WA law, so I cannot speak to the lawfulness of this policy. However, if you OC, I bet you get tossed out.
 

LibertyDeath

Regular Member
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
128
Location
Inland Empire, CA
It is legal for a CHL holder to carry everywhere in WA except bars, courts, schools, and secure areas of airports, jail, and looney bins. Any law passed by a local government agency cannot be applied to anyone with a CHL, period. See RCW 9.41.300

They didn't have metal detectors three years ago. The search consisted of a quick bag check. Worst they can do is tell you to leave.
 

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
If you go to the Mariner's site, it is pretty easy to find their policy on weapons. Here is the link:

http://mlb.mlb.com/sea/ballpark/information/index.jsp?content=guide

Here is the quote:



IANAL, and I know pretty much zip about WA law, so I cannot speak to the lawfulness of this policy. However, if you OC, I bet you get tossed out.

State law RCW 9.41.300:

(2) Cities, towns, counties, and other municipalities may enact laws and ordinances:

(a) Restricting the discharge of firearms in any portion of their respective jurisdictions where there is a reasonable likelihood that humans, domestic animals, or property will be jeopardized. Such laws and ordinances shall not abridge the right of the individual guaranteed by Article I, section 24 of the state Constitution to bear arms in defense of self or others; and

(b) Restricting the possession of firearms in any stadium or convention center, operated by a city, town, county, or other municipality, except that such restrictions shall not apply to:

(i) Any pistol in the possession of a person licensed under RCW 9.41.070 or exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060; or

(ii) Any showing, demonstration, or lecture involving the exhibition of firearms.

So although Mariners might ask you to leave you are not breaking any laws. Conceal good and you are good to go.
 
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hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Safeco Field is public property, and as such the leaseholder cannot legally tell you that you cannot legally carry. If they ask you to leave, be sure to get a refund or plan to file in small claims court.

What I did is, I sent a certified, return receipt requested, letter to the owners office, stating what happened, when and why, and tell them that they have 30 days from the date they receive the letter, or you will file in small claims court for a refund of the cost of the tickets, cost of travel and parking, and all court associated expenses if you do not receive an acceptable negotiated settlement from them first.

Be prepaired to follow through. Document everything.

It works, they will try to get you to accept alternate tickets, take $$$$ only...

The reason this works is at small claims court you must represent yourself, you cannot hire representation..That includes the corporation...If you file a claim against a corporation in small claims court, that corporation MUST send an OFFICER of the company to represent the company (that means CEO, VP, CFO that kind of person) and their time is too valuable (at least in their minds) for a couple hundred dollar small claim appearance that they know they are going to loose anyway. Becasue they do not contest the proceding, you automatically win.
 

eye95

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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Are you sure it is public property? Often publicly funded stadia are owned by private corporations set up by the municipality, the county, and/or the State.
 

eye95

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Messages
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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
What do they mean by "municipal corporation"? Clearly, they don't mean the term as it is usually used, to mean a village, town, township, or city, incorporated under State law to have geographic corporate limits, residents of the municipality who elect the municipal government, and a municipal government with the authority to pass laws whose violation can result in imposed punishment.

Are they using the term loosely to say that it is a corporation that is owned by municipalities or other governments?

The quote sheds light on the question, but does not answer it. Is Safeco field actually owned by a governmental entity that is restricted by preemption, is it a governmental entity in its own right that is restricted by preemption, is it a governmental entity in its own right that is not restricted by preemption, or is it a private entity (even though owned in whole by public entities) that would not be restricted by preemption?

For example, in Alabama, even if it such an entity were called a "municipal corporation," preemption would not apply. Preemption applies only to counties or municipal corporations that are cities and towns. The law specifically says that municipalities are corporations known as "The City of ________" or "The Town of __________."

I do not know WA law at all, but unless the stadium authority is part and parcel of a single municipality, I doubt that preemption would apply--or even be relevant, as the park rules are not laws or ordinances, especially as we normally envision them being passed either by elected officials or put in place by an agency that reports to the elected officials under authority given them by the elected officials through laws or ordinances.
 

hermannr

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Mar 24, 2011
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2,327
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Okanogan Highland
Hej Eye!

Safeco Field is on property that was purchased by public bond funds, the stadium was built with the same public funds. The facility is leased to the user, and the consessions are also leased to to whomever is willing to pay the price.

We also have what are called "PUD"s or "Public Utility District" muni corps. and "LID"s or "Local imprvement districts". They all act like muni corps and can all issue tax exempt bonds that have to be voted on by those covered by that "District". Basically, they are limited in their specific function, but are treated the same as any other muni corp. RCW 9.41.290 (state preemption) states in part "...Citys, Towns and Counties, or other Municipalities may enact..."
 

eye95

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Fairborn, Ohio, USA
So, is the entity that owns the stadium a "municipality" under WA law, as listed in the quoted section? Second, since that entity has leased the stadium to a "user," doesn't the user have, as most leaseholders have, the "right to enjoy" the property, which, under typical law, includes the right to set the conditions under which it invites others onto that property?

It seems to me that the leaseholder is setting the no-weapons policy, not the municipality (if it is a municipality).

On edit: BTW, I noticed the way you spelled hi. I lived in Denmark for three years. That's how they spell it. Got Scandinavian links?
 
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END_THE_FED

Regular Member
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Mar 19, 2010
Messages
925
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
So, is the entity that owns the stadium a "municipality" under WA law, as listed in the quoted section? Second, since that entity has leased the stadium to a "user," doesn't the user have, as most leaseholders have, the "right to enjoy" the property, which, under typical law, includes the right to set the conditions under which it invites others onto that property?

It seems to me that the leaseholder is setting the no-weapons policy, not the municipality (if it is a municipality).

Preemption applies.

Public Facility Districts are "Municipalities" under State law with special taxing authority but all their powers are limited to what the County specifically empowers them to do by statute.

PFDs are ran by a board of directors, the board is mostly appointed to staggered terms by the County council and The City council with another member being appointed by the board its self

The Washington State laws covering PFDs can be found here: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=36.100


Preemption in WA. covers all rules, laws and regulations on the possession of firearms. This even includes "rules" put in place by city parks and such. Generally, the only laws Municipalities can pass are laws on the discharge of firearms when there is a reasonable concern for the safety of persons or property, and certain zoning restrictions for dealers.(and in certain cases possession at stadiums for persons with out a CPL)

Currently in WA. when a private entity leases a public facility such as a stadium or park the private entity often has rules against carrying and can ask you to leave if you don't follow the rules. This (as far as I know) has not been challenged in court yet or at least not in a high court. I am of the opinion that if a private entity exercises the privilege to rent public property then the same restrictions should apply as if the city is running it.

There is also some controversy because in the city of Seattle it is rumored that they have it as a lease requirement that if you rent the property for your event you must ban firearms at that event. This , if true seems like an obvious violation of preemption.
 

xxx.jakk.xxx

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
467
Since the field is run by the Public Stadium Authority, I'm assuming Preemption would apply. Although I believe that when the stadium is leased, full control does go to the team leasing it and they "MAY" be allowed to enact rules since the Public Stadium Authority is no longer in control of the Stadium. I could be wrong as I am not a lawyer and I have not been reading legalese very long...

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=36.102.060
 
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eye95

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
13,524
Location
Fairborn, Ohio, USA
Since the field is run by the Public Stadium Authority, I'm assuming Preemption would apply. Although I believe that when the stadium is leased, full control does go to the team leasing it and they "MAY" be allowed to enact rules since the Public Stadium Authority is no longer in control of the Stadium. I could be wrong as I am not a lawyer and I have not been reading legalese very long...

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=36.102.060

After reading your link, I think your take is accurate. E_T_F, your post is quite informative, answering all of my questions. Thanks. However, the above link seems to indicate that the decision on a weapons policy would belong to the Mariners.
 

amlevin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
5,937
Location
North of Seattle, Washington, USA
Safeco Field is public property, and as such the leaseholder cannot legally tell you that you cannot legally carry. If they ask you to leave, be sure to get a refund or plan to file in small claims court.

What I did is, I sent a certified, return receipt requested, letter to the owners office, stating what happened, when and why, and tell them that they have 30 days from the date they receive the letter, or you will file in small claims court for a refund of the cost of the tickets, cost of travel and parking, and all court associated expenses if you do not receive an acceptable negotiated settlement from them first.

Be prepaired to follow through. Document everything.

It works, they will try to get you to accept alternate tickets, take $$$$ only...

The reason this works is at small claims court you must represent yourself, you cannot hire representation..That includes the corporation...If you file a claim against a corporation in small claims court, that corporation MUST send an OFFICER of the company to represent the company (that means CEO, VP, CFO that kind of person) and their time is too valuable (at least in their minds) for a couple hundred dollar small claim appearance that they know they are going to loose anyway. Becasue they do not contest the proceding, you automatically win.

What do you do when the party you are suing successfully moves to have the case transferred to Superior Court? Now you have to put up with the lawyers they are paying anyway. It happens all the time. Oh, by the way, if that happens and they prevail you can get stuck with the attorney fees.
 

gogodawgs

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Messages
5,669
Location
Federal Way, Washington, USA
It's legal to carry at Safeco Field, although I would suggest CC as to not wait all game being detained.

There are no 'metal detectors' just a bag search (presumably for alcohol and WMD's).

I have CC'd many times at Safeco without incident.
 
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