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Thread: Girl friend going to Ca to visit. How can she CC a HG there?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Girl friend going to Ca to visit. How can she CC a HG there?

    My gf is considering a trip back home to Ca for a few weeks and I'm concerned about her safety. She has an abusive ex who might try to harm her, but she wants to see her granddaughter, collect some of her possessions and get some time away from home.

    She obviously could fly with her own HG, stowed according to regs, get a non-resident CC permit (Not sure if Ca recognizes Va), borrow a HG from a friend and OC, get a taser, IDK, just spit-balling here.

    She could also try to get a restraining order on this guy, to make him be out of the house when she comes by to get stuff, take a friend or two.

    So, interested in ideas from anyone, fellow Californian OC-ers especially on how to best do it.

    TIA

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Obviously I'm not a Californian, but there are several things you have suggested that just will not (pardon the expression) fly.

    California does not recognize any other state's permit/license. Looking up that information is not difficult.

    Borrowing a HG from somebody in Calufornia is going to be problematic at best, especially if she does not have a California CCW, as unarmed open carry is restricted depending on where you are. Looking up that information is not difficult.

    California has some wierd (to us in Free America) laws about firearms being registered and people who are not the registered owners possessing those firearms. Looking up that information is not difficult.

    Getting a restraining order is a good idea, but needs the time necessary to go through all the steps. It probably also would need the services of an attorney to handle getting it before she arrives in California. That will be difficult as the person she seeks to restrain is entitled to contest her petition and confront her in person in court. Looking up that information is not difficult.

    I have no idea if tasers are legal in California. Looking up that information is not difficult. (BTW, tasers, like handguns, are not magic talismans.)

    Taking a friend or two to accompany her might be a good idea, as some folks are less prone to violence when there are witnesses present. The question is, will these friends be able to do more than call 9-1-1 if things go south? Also, see below: will taking those friends along involve them as accessories before, during and after the fact to the commission of one or more crimes?

    From what you have posted
    to make him be out of the house when she comes by to get stuff
    , it sounds as if your girl friend wants to get items that are currently located in the house occupied by her ex. Unless she has a court order giving her possession of specificly listed items that he has so far refused to allow her to take possession of, she needs his permission to enter the place and to remove any property inside. Without those two permissions she will probably be guilty of either trespass or breaking and entering and of some flavor of theft of property, not to mention the possibility of a destruction of property crime or two as well. If such a court order exists and the ex is refusing to comply with it the proper response is to go to the court and ask that the order be enforced. She may or may not need an attorney to do that. A lot would depend on how old the court order was.

    Alternatively, she might consider communicating with her ex before she makes the trip (perhaps not even mentioning her travelling to California) and asking him to deliver the items she wants to a third party. It is not unusual for folks to have things shipped across the country. She could then collect her items from the third party. Then her only concern would be managing her visits with family/friends so as to not be near the ex.

    Hope these thoughts help you and your girl friend consider how to accomplish her desires without getting into legal trouble.

    stay safe.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    My gf is considering a trip back home to Ca for a few weeks and I'm concerned about her safety. She has an abusive ex who might try to harm her, but she wants to see her granddaughter, collect some of her possessions and get some time away from home.

    She obviously could fly with her own HG, stowed according to regs, get a non-resident CC permit (Not sure if Ca recognizes Va), borrow a HG from a friend and OC, get a taser, IDK, just spit-balling here.

    She could also try to get a restraining order on this guy, to make him be out of the house when she comes by to get stuff, take a friend or two.

    So, interested in ideas from anyone, fellow Californian OC-ers especially on how to best do it.

    TIA
    California does not issue permits to non-residents nor do they recognize out of state permits. In the situation like you described I would not reccomend open carry. In California the firearm must be unloaded and obviously outside of the 1000' school zone. It is not illegal to UOC; U for unloaded, a firearm that is not regristered to you. It is a sentance enhancer to commit a crime with a firearm that is not registered to you. i.e. conceal carry of your registered firearm without a permit is a misdemeanor. It is a felony if the firearm is not regristered to you.

    I have no experience with Ex's, restraining orders, or the aquisition of items from another home so I cannot speak to that effect.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    You didn't say if he is her EX husband or boyfriend. Assuming that her EX has her possesions, she can get a civil standby. An LEO can appear with her to get her personal possesions. I'm not sure of all the legal details involved, but she could contact the local LEO's and find out.
    Forget about her using or getting a CCW. I live in Calif and I can't get one.
    Last edited by Gundude; 05-30-2011 at 04:20 PM.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The right‘s existence is all the reason he needs.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Well, well, well. I wish the people who made up the Cali/Kalifornia HG laws and restraining order laws could just read this post.

    Basically, a female/elderly/disabled/young person could not come to Ca and protect themselves from physical violence, even when there's a higher probability of directed violence. Obviously, even staying out of bad places, stupid people, won't help.

    The HG is a great equalizer, used appropo, legally, judiciously for the weaker to get fair treatment from abusive Ex spouses. I couldn't advise even a female Black belt to go alone into a situation like this.

    He did things like ship her expensive clad pots but kept the lids. Told her a painting was broken, and it's still hanging on the wall. Kept her warm winter coats but sent Halloween costumes. He is a rage-oholic, NPD, EtOH and Ativan abuser, 6' tall, 225 lbs. She's 5'4, 140.

    If he shows up, sounds like basically all she can do is get out her Rosary, get on her knees and pray. If she does anything (self-defense) she won't be coming back from Ca any time soon.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger Johnson View Post
    Well, well, well. I wish the people who made up the Cali/Kalifornia HG laws and restraining order laws could just read this post.

    Basically, a female/elderly/disabled/young person could not come to Ca and protect themselves from physical violence, even when there's a higher probability of directed violence. Obviously, even staying out of bad places, stupid people, won't help.

    The HG is a great equalizer, used appropo, legally, judiciously for the weaker to get fair treatment from abusive Ex spouses. I couldn't advise even a female Black belt to go alone into a situation like this.

    He did things like ship her expensive clad pots but kept the lids. Told her a painting was broken, and it's still hanging on the wall. Kept her warm winter coats but sent Halloween costumes. He is a rage-oholic, NPD, EtOH and Ativan abuser, 6' tall, 225 lbs. She's 5'4, 140.

    If he shows up, sounds like basically all she can do is get out her Rosary, get on her knees and pray. If she does anything (self-defense) she won't be coming back from Ca any time soon.
    No, it sounds like her option to carry a firearm for self defense is limited to the point that it may not be worth the legal consequences of trying to do so.

    But other options still remain available to her.

    Some of them may involve planning ahead and most probably spending some money that she/you two may not have or may not wish to spend for this purpose. Like arranging for a police "civil stand-by" as mentioned by Gundude above, or securing a court order to authorize the pick-up of specific items (in which case you can get the Sheriff to send Deputies to enforce the order - it may or may not be possible but you will never find out if you keep concentrating on the magic talisman of a handgun as defense against a
    higher probability of violence
    instead of seeking solutions to the problem of how to get her personal possessions.

    In my world (in other words, in my opinion) the high probability of violence is what I stay away from in the first place. Either don't go there or find some way to limit the probability from occurring in the first place. If I can't afford to get the kind of help needed to limit that probability in ways that do not expose me to serious negative legal consequences I look at just how necessary it is to do the thing that exposes me to that high probability of violence as opposed to the consequences of avoiding the violence in the first place. You mention "stuff" such as the lids to expensive pots and pans, a painting, and warm winter coats. These are things she has done without already, and in the first and last instance has probably (yes, I'm guessing here) already replaced. The painting may have sentimental value, but he lied and said it was "broken" - so is that sentimental value enough to have been willing to live with a "broken" painting or expend the money necessary to repair a "broken" painting?

    It sounds as if this trip does not need to take place right away, which means there is time to plan out how to accomplish her goal of recovering her "stuff" or deciding that it is too expensive (financially, emotionally, or in terms of risk of violence) to take. Seeing her granddaughter can be arranged so as to avoid the abusive ex. The desire to
    get some time away from home
    suggests some other issues I don't want to even get near.

    I seriiously urge you and your girl friend to look at this situation and decide just how important the recovery of "stuff" really is, and if it is that important to then spend the time, energy and money needed to do it in ways that offer the greatest amount of protection against the potential of abuse by the ex that also avoids the high potential of running afoul of the law.

    sstay safe.

  7. #7
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I fail to understand why anyone who seriously fears for their safety from one individual would wish to remove the greatest benefit - distance. And for what? "Stuff" of very limited value -please.

    Further, compounding the issue is the expressed desire to have a tool of deadly force available in case of need. One of the unwritten rules, still of of paramount importance, is that of avoiding confrontation - walk away, don't go there, leave, avoid, avoid.

    Sure she has a natural right to defend herself. No she doesn't have a right legally or morally to intentionally put herself in a high risk situation then claim complete innocence if a decision to is made to employ such force. Can't claim lack of knowledge either as the intent/desire has already been expressed here.

    Alternately, contact an attorney to attempt to get back your belongings - shouldn't cost more than a round trip from Va(?) to Ca. and back + expenses. Don't expect much success though ........ in either scenario.

    As to the other factors (grandchild & wanting to get away), they won't be of much consolation in jail, hospital or worse.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    COMMENTS REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR: This comments was offered tongue-in-cheek, but we do not wish to steer anyone down a path that would cause them to run afoul of the law.

  9. #9
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    Gundude said it best.


    forget the gun--- CA does not issue ccw's to most residents, let along NONE to non-residents.

    She will be charged with a FELONY if she has to use the gun for any reason. Going into a know problem, with a firearm, is a big red flag.

    Call the local DA and have them help her set up a visitation with the grandchild.

    Call for civil-standby with LEO's.


    IF the EX is all that bad, there is nothing worth going into the house after. Her safety is more valuable then any material item.

    DO it safely and legal or do not do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I fail to understand why anyone who seriously fears for their safety from one individual would wish to remove the greatest benefit - distance. And for what? "Stuff" of very limited value -please.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    ...is the real answer. After a wild bear attacks you and steals your sandwich, you don't approach him to get your sandwich back. If the stuff is worth more than, say, paying a moving company to collect it for you, then hire a moving company and have a neutral third party meet them. If it's worth less than the cost of retrieving it, save some money by replacing it instead.

    As for carrying in CA, it's a minefield I avoid by not going to CA. It happens that LEOSA allows me to carry in CA, or anywhere else in the country, by making me immune to most restrictions on carry--and I still wouldn't do it. It would be cold consolation to my wife if some jacked-up CA cop gunned me down, to know that the law was on my side. On the other coast, off-duty New York City police have been gunned down by NYC cops who saw them carrying.

    Carrying legally in those gun-hostile areas is a bit like a black man sitting down at a segregated lunch counter. We need brave souls to do it, or the evil will never be defeated--but it's not something you do casually because you're feeling hungry. It's something you do carefully, counting the cost and accepting the risks. Your girlfriend isn't looking to strike a blow for freedom; she just wants her stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Schlitz View Post
    Concealed is concealed.... that's all I'm saying
    You sayin, " Go Gangbanger"?
    I see what you did there.

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