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Thread: Do I have to show I.D. If I'm Stopped for OC'ing?

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    Do I have to show I.D. If I'm Stopped for OC'ing?

    Hello,
    I'm sorry if this is a [troll] question everyone already knows but I've searched long and hard to try to answer it on my own.
    If I'm stopped by LE while OC'ing, do I have to surrender my I.D. to them if they ask? Please help! If possible provide the statute that says I do or don't, Thanks!

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Not usually.

    I don't.
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    Regular Member JoeGlock40's Avatar
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    i dont know if you have to but i would and do...theres no need to start crap with LEOs.. u respect them and they respect u...u dont need to end up like those idiots on youtube that start crap with LEOs and record it all...all that does is make gun carriers look like idiots and like we think were better than LEOs and thats what makes us look bad to the sheep, which isnt gona help us out when were tryin to get more leniant gun laws..ya support your 2nd amd right but when it comes to dealin with LEOs be smart...this is az where the cops arent pricks about it like other states
    Last edited by JoeGlock40; 05-31-2011 at 06:44 AM.
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    Regular Member ATF Consumer's Avatar
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    In Indiana, if stopped, they require you to show your license when asked, but that doesn't mean you have to show other forms of ID, such as your driver's license.
    It really sucks that LEO can just come up and ask for your papers, like as if it were Germany in the early 1940's.
    They use the same old routine of saying, "We don't know who you are and why you are carrying around a gun."
    So, just because you choose to exercise one of your rights, they feel they can stop you just because they feel like it.
    It shouldn't be any different than if you were driving...they normally don't stop drivers that have done nothing wrong...why stop an open carrier? Like as if a criminal is going to open carry a firearm to give themselves away...the logic they use is full of brown!
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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGlock40 View Post
    i dont know if you have to but i would and do...theres no need to start crap with LEOs.. u respect them and they respect u...u dont need to end up like those idiots on youtube that start crap with LEOs and record it all...all that does is make gun carriers look like idiots and like we think were better than LEOs and thats what makes us look bad to the sheep, which isnt gona help us out when were tryin to get more leniant gun laws..ya support your 2nd amd right but when it comes to dealin with LEOs be smart...this is az where the cops arent pricks about it like other states
    1. Depends on the state whether or not ID is required. Here in Alabama it is not unless you are driving.
    2. The cop started the crap by trying to interrogate me for having the audacity to engage in a legal activity.
    3. If you conduct yourself calmly and politely during such an encounter, it makes the cop look like the idiot and not the LAC. That definitely helps get more lenient gun laws when evidence of such is presented to your legislators.
    4. You cannot support just your Second Amendment-guaranteed right without supporting the others. In this case, your right against unreasonable search and seizure.
    5. I have absolutely no interest in making a video of a cop and posting it on YouTube. I will, however, have a digital voice recorder going. That audio will only be shared with the cop's superiors or, if necessary, my lawyer.

    In summary: I am a free man. The police officer, despite what he thinks, is no more nor no less than I am. His badge and uniform do not give him the authority to demand my identification just to satisfy his curiosity.

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    Regular Member JoeGlock40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    1. Depends on the state whether or not ID is required. Here in Alabama it is not unless you are driving.
    2. The cop started the crap by trying to interrogate me for having the audacity to engage in a legal activity.
    3. If you conduct yourself calmly and politely during such an encounter, it makes the cop look like the idiot and not the LAC. That definitely helps get more lenient gun laws when evidence of such is presented to your legislators.
    4. You cannot support just your Second Amendment-guaranteed right without supporting the others. In this case, your right against unreasonable search and seizure.
    5. I have absolutely no interest in making a video of a cop and posting it on YouTube. I will, however, have a digital voice recorder going. That audio will only be shared with the cop's superiors or, if necessary, my lawyer.

    In summary: I am a free man. The police officer, despite what he thinks, is no more nor no less than I am. His badge and uniform do not give him the authority to demand my identification just to satisfy his curiosity.
    but if someone does a guy with a gun call he does have a right to ask for id and question u
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    Regular Member JoeGlock40's Avatar
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    and the whole criminals dont OC was busted once in tucson, a prohibited possessor was OC a gun around his apts when goin on walks and the neighbors got scared and somehow ATF or Dea got involved and when they confronted the guy outside his front door, they got into a shootout and killed the guy..so once in awhile BGs do OC
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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGlock40 View Post
    but if someone does a guy with a gun call he does have a right to ask for id and question u
    Maybe in Arizona he does. But to be totally correct, it is not his "right", it is under color of his authority. I have the right, as a free man, to refuse to show him anything in the way of documents.

    Here, all I am obligated to do, by law, is to tell him my name and address and an account of my actions. There is no legal obligation to show him any ID unless I am either driving or carrying concealed. If the later, I want to know how someone knew I had a gun.

    It is rare that criminals will OC. The very last thing they want is to call attention to themselves. OC is still uncommon enough that it stands out like a sore thumb almost everywhere.

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    Campaign Veteran Schlitz's Avatar
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    Sure he has a right to ASK you! As far as I know you have a right to decline. Asking is not demanding...

    u respect them and they respect u
    Demanding papers for doing nothing wrong is respecting you? Looks like you have done nothing wrong and he is snooping his nose around looking for an excuse to bust you. Doesn't seem like he is repsecting you by digging through your business looking for stuff...

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    Arizona has a Stop and Identify Law for a Persons' Name only, without any further Requirement.

    Arizona Revised Statute 13-2412. Refusing to Provide Truthful Name when Lawfully Detained; Classification
    A. It is Unlawful for a Person, after being Advised that The Person's Refusal to Answer is Unlawful, to Fail or Refuse to State The Person's True Full Name on Request of a Peace Officer who has Lawfully Detained The Person based on Reasonable Suspicion that The Person has Committed, is Committing[,] or is about to Commit a Crime. A Person Detained under This Section shall State The Person's True Full Name, but shall NOT be Compelled to Answer ANY other Inquiry of a Peace Officer.
    B. A Person who Violates This Section is Guilty of a Class 2 Misdemeanor.

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    Regular Member TOF's Avatar
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    You asked the question in the Arizona Forum so I expect you want to know about Arizona rather than Florida, California etc.

    In Arizona you will most likely not be asked for Id. just because of OCing a gun. I will not say it can't happen but is very unlikely. Our LEO's have been operating under the condition that it is lawfull for people to OC in most places. If you brandish and someone complains they will probably ask but if you act like a normal citizen they will at most ask what gun you are carrying as many gun enthusiast would do.

    Don't do something you ought not to and our LEO's will not bother you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGlock40 View Post
    but if someone does a guy with a gun call he does have a right to ask for id and question u
    That logic suggests that if someone calls the cops on you for driving a car, the cop now gets to go pull you over and check your license.

    Perhaps if I'm riding my bicycle on a park trail and someone calls the cops with a 'man with a bike' call the cops again get to perform a search?
    Last edited by Thoreau; 05-31-2011 at 12:24 PM.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGlock40 View Post
    i dont know if you have to but i would and do...theres no need to start crap with LEOs.. u respect them and they respect u...u dont need to end up like those idiots on youtube that start crap with LEOs and record it all...all that does is make gun carriers look like idiots and like we think were better than LEOs and thats what makes us look bad to the sheep, which isnt gona help us out when were tryin to get more leniant gun laws..ya support your 2nd amd right but when it comes to dealin with LEOs be smart...this is az where the cops arent pricks about it like other states
    You give up your 4th Amendment to protect your 2nd Amendment???
    You start the crap by the cop walking up to you and asking you for ID???
    You really believe they are going to respect you because you gave up your rights to them?
    No it makes gun carriers look like they know the laws, and will not give up our rights to appease the LEO.
    I dont know too many gun owners who think they are better than LEO, just dont want to have to rely on LEO.
    Responsible gun owners who know their rights and are able to deal with LEO and if confronted do not back down, and if problems arise, these problems are addressed thru their superiors by getting them to issue training bulletins. Staying strong and sticking together is how you get more leniant gun laws.
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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGlock40 View Post
    and the whole criminals dont OC was busted once in tucson, a prohibited possessor was OC a gun around his apts when goin on walks and the neighbors got scared and somehow ATF or Dea got involved and when they confronted the guy outside his front door, they got into a shootout and killed the guy..so once in awhile BGs do OC
    Please post a link...
    Last edited by amzbrady; 06-06-2011 at 12:31 AM.
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

    "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas

    "They who can who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve niether liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Start crap with LEOs? they're the ones approaching and demanding ID for a non-criminal behavior that is none of their business.

    If a LEO demands ID from you for no reason, or states a perfectly legal activity as his/her reason; the crap has already been started; BY THE LEO. Beyond that, you deserve what you tolerate.

    You shouldn't have to assert your Rights, they should be respected. If a LEO starts crap with you, well, it's your choice. But I'd suggest not putting up with it.
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGlock40 View Post
    but if someone does a guy with a gun call he does have a right to ask for id and question u
    He has just as much right to stop someone for a "man with a gun" call as he does for a "man with a ham sandwich" or "man wearing white after Labor Day" call.
    He has a right to ask any question of you he wants, your identity, your address, whether or not you want to come back to his place and rub penises together....

    He just lacks the authority, unless there is evidence of criminal action.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGlock40 View Post
    i dont know if you have to but i would and do...theres no need to start crap with LEOs.. u respect them and they respect u...u dont need to end up like those idiots on youtube that start crap with LEOs and record it all...all that does is make gun carriers look like idiots and like we think were better than LEOs and thats what makes us look bad to the sheep, which isnt gona help us out when were tryin to get more leniant gun laws..ya support your 2nd amd right but when it comes to dealin with LEOs be smart...this is az where the cops arent pricks about it like other states
    With all due respect, those idiots on youtube are standing up for their rights, and the rights of others. If you decide to not exercize your rights then that is your choice and your choice alone. Just remember that every time you give in to their unlawful requests, you make them "stronger".

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGlock40 View Post
    i dont know if you have to but i would and do...theres no need to start crap with LEOs.. u respect them and they respect u...u dont need to end up like those idiots on youtube that start crap with LEOs and record it all...all that does is make gun carriers look like idiots and like we think were better than LEOs and thats what makes us look bad to the sheep, which isnt gona help us out when were tryin to get more leniant gun laws..ya support your 2nd amd right but when it comes to dealin with LEOs be smart...this is az where the cops arent pricks about it like other states
    Yeah, kind of like they guy in Philadelphia who immediately offered up his PA LTCF... he still got violated and they threatened to kill him. He had a recorder because the Philadelphia PD ALREADY confiscated his gun in the past for open carrying so he was smart enough to have a recorder this time.

    If you ever carry openly outside of Arizona (where it's safe to do so) you may have a different opinion. Some LEO's hate open carry and will hassle (or try to) no matter what you do, this has happened in Michigan.

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    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jared View Post
    Yeah, kind of like they guy in Philadelphia who immediately offered up his PA LTCF... he still got violated and they threatened to kill him. He had a recorder because the Philadelphia PD ALREADY confiscated his gun in the past for open carrying so he was smart enough to have a recorder this time.
    +1000
    Just another reason to deny them any information that is not relevant.

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    I have not had an encounter but it'd first ask if I was being detained if the answer is no I'd be on my way. If yes I'd ask for what crime am I being detained for. If they say open carry or b/c you have a gun etc I'd tell them that open carry is legal in Michigan and they can only detain me if they have rs. If theu make up bs rs then I will tell them I'm going to exercise my 5th amendment right and remain silent. If they choose to arrest me that's fine ill just see them in court. If they let me go I'll file a complain against the officers. I have no problem with police just the ones who decide they're gonn stop me for doing something legal.
    Last edited by xmanhockey7; 06-10-2011 at 03:28 PM.
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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    ....if approached by a LEO, AND you are not doing any wrong, whip out your cell phone, dial 911 and state clearly and loudly that you have been stopped by someone who purports to be a police officer, would they send a police officer to investigate, then give your location and a description of the person. Also, tell the 911 dispatcher that this person is wearing a pistol on his hip just like police officers do.
    I used to do this when attacked by LEOs. They literally laughed at me. "Do what they tell you to or you get what you deserve. Shut up about your 'Rights,' you don't have any and it makes them mad..."

    Guess what happened when I tried to FOIA the recording of that call...

    It won't make your attacker feel bad if you call up his friends to tell them about it. It's also a really lousy replacement for a voice recorder. When they are the sole custodians of evidence, and that evidence incriminates them, well, duh, they destroy it. See what happened to Skidmark in VA? They're going to hang around the water cooler and tell jokes about you anyway. Yer not Born until yer Sworn...

    Sworn to do what? The opposite of what you're doing! Cute... effing LEOs... I think that by being born in the US of A, I'm sworn not to put up with that bullsh!t, like those who came before me. So many gave so much, and I'm going to let it slide? Hell no. In my mind, that's the ultimate ingratitude for those who died to make and preserve this Nation. It's not about me or my convenience. It's bigger than me.
    Last edited by ixtow; 06-10-2011 at 03:41 PM.
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Regular Member Badger Johnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by str3ngthz View Post
    Hello,
    I'm sorry if this is a [troll] question everyone already knows but I've searched long and hard to try to answer it on my own.
    If I'm stopped by LE while OC'ing, do I have to surrender my I.D. to them if they ask? Please help! If possible provide the statute that says I do or don't, Thanks!
    Good replies above. To add, it matters where you are and if you are driving a car.

    It's called mandatory stop and ID. If you are walking in an area of known criminal activity, that can be SAF/RAS, apparently. So you may ask 'Why am I being detained' (again only if you are on foot - in a car or 'vehicle' or I suppose bicycle it's probable that you have to show some ID or give your name and DOB).

    Remember LEOs can ask just about anything. What they can demand under color of authority is a different thing. Because it's confusing depending where you are and even time of day, apparently, sometimes you have to use your own judgment and make a decision just how long you feel like being tagged and bagged while they sort it out. Not all people OC for the political and 2A reasons.

    Good luck (and tell us more specifics)
    Last edited by Badger Johnson; 06-10-2011 at 04:50 PM.

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    Regular Member AZkopper's Avatar
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    OK, I'm seeing people froth at the mouth from everywhere BUT AZ!!!????!!!

    I see one guy ask a question in the AZ forum, and every Tom, Dick, and Harriette from outside of AZ want to put their 2-cents worth in about generalities of LEO.

    Why don't y'all take this to the general discussion forum. Can anyone in this thread give specific problems with AZ law, or AZ cops? Have any of you actuall BEEN to AZ? Have any of you OC'd in AZ???

  24. #24
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Why don't y'all take this to the general discussion forum. Can anyone in this thread give specific problems with AZ law, or AZ cops? Have any of you actuall BEEN to AZ? Have any of you OC'd in AZ???
    Yes, lived there for a time and hope to return one day.
    and Yes, both pistols and even with a long arm strapped to the handlebars of my mountain bike.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZkopper View Post
    OK, I'm seeing people froth at the mouth from everywhere BUT AZ!!!????!!!

    I see one guy ask a question in the AZ forum, and every Tom, Dick, and Harriette from outside of AZ want to put their 2-cents worth in about generalities of LEO.

    Why don't y'all take this to the general discussion forum. Can anyone in this thread give specific problems with AZ law, or AZ cops? Have any of you actuall BEEN to AZ? Have any of you OC'd in AZ???
    Yeah... I noticed the same thing. THIS IS ARIZONA... not Podunk Nannyland. Unlesss you're doin' somethin' really wierd... your'e not gonna be stopped for OC'n ANYTHING. Unlike 'elsewhere'... LEO's here know that carrying openly is not against any 'law'. 'Never has been... even before there was an Arizona. Yeah... I know... the Earps tried it in Tombstone (once). Such 'OMG... he's got a gun' paranoia doesn't exist in AZ. Even where it does (among the noobs) nobody pays any attention to their hysterics. Damn... if y'all came to AZ you wouldn't have anything to bitch about anymore. (GASP!)

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