Limitations on the weapons we OC in Virginia

18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.

If any person sells or barters, or exhibits for sale or for barter, or gives or furnishes, or causes to be sold, bartered, given or furnished, or has in his possession, or under his control, with the intent of selling, bartering, giving or furnishing, any blackjack, brass or metal knucks, any disc of whatever configuration having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, or like weapons, such person shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor. The having in one's possession of any such weapon shall be prima facie evidence, except in the case of a conservator of the peace, of his intent to sell, barter, give or furnish the same.

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At the risk of flirting with "discussing" illegal activities...

Does a Class 4 Misdemeanor conviction, no impact on CHP, no jail time, small fine, really stop anyone from carrying one of these 'alternative' weapons? Especially considering that an automatic knife isn't all that different than an assisted opening knife. I could see a sneaky CA try to make an assisted opener a "like weapon" even though this was shot down at the federal regulation level last year.

And this is really a poorly constructed law. Possession of a prohibited item is prima facie evidence of intent to sell. Intent to sell is the crime, not possession. Weird.

Blackjack is a short wooden stick with a cord right??

I have no clue why these why are banned. Someone needs to overturn this law. If we are allowed to carry FIREARMS, why not a blackjack?

ocholsteroc said:

Blackjack is a short wooden stick with a cord right??

I have no clue why these why are banned. Someone needs to overturn this law. If we are allowed to carry FIREARMS, why not a blackjack?

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No, that's a baton. The long ones are known as night sticks and when they carried them in the old days, the short ones were "Day Sticks".

A blackjack is a short stiff spring with a big chunk of lead i n the front. The whole thing is covered in leather. They are extremely effective and every cop used to carry one. They even had special pockets in uniform pants for them but the Blackjack would eat a hole in it in short order.

You can still buy them if you look a little. I have a half a dozen I haven't seen for 30 years.

There is a long story about the progression of impact weapons but it doesn't have anything with how effective they are...rather, how much liability the department is exposed to. Better to shoot someone and claim officer safety than dislocate someone's shoulder and get sued.

Blackjack:

Oh theres lead in them...

Jepordy question:

ocholsteroc said:

Oh theres lead in them...

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What is never the proper response to anything that mama says.

... except for maybe "What's wrong with that criminal"?

So, looking at this law, does this mean anything that uses rimfire is acceptable?

230therapy said:

It does make OC of a pistol with threaded barrel legal.

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Not true. Read it again.

230therapy said:

It's fine if you carry it with a 20 round magazine. But more ammo is better!!

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I think the AR Pistol is MUCH more attractive when wearing at least a 30 or 40-rnd magzine...

user said:

§ 18.2-300.


§ 18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.

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Does anyone know if an ASP Expandable Baton is considered a "like weapon" or is it legal to carry one? I know I've asked this before and no one had an answer...

Bueller?

MSC 45ACP said:

Does anyone know if an ASP Expandable Baton is considered a "like weapon" or is it legal to carry one? I know I've asked this before and no one had an answer...

Bueller?

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I thought we'd been through this before...My memory is getting worse.:uhoh:
no a blackjack is a spring-loaded object heavily weighted on the end.
An ASP is a collapsible rod.
There are some gun show copies that are spring. They could be considered a blackjack if one had a very good imagination.
No court cases exist that I'm aware of.

That said the darn things are not very effective.

ASP Baton

Peter, since my memory is just as bad if not worse than your own, I don't remember our previous answer. I don't remember reading anything that resembled a "resolution" to my query.

"Not very effective" you say? Well, Brother, I beg to differ... They aren't effective against a gun (unless you're pretty darn fast, already have it deployed and have a pair of brass doo-dads), but they work quite well as an intermediate weapon IF you have had training and experience to go with it. I went from carrying a 4 D-cell Mag Lite and using "Three from the Ring" to the ASP. It was a LOT lighter and more versatile. I've had to use it quite a few times (on and off duty).

Each time I used it "off-duty", I was in my car when someone tried to reach inside my vehicle to assault me. I was able to change their minds without causing a great deal of damage (unlike the results of one or more 230 gr. JHP's @ 600+fps). I did feel obligated to dial Government-Sponsored Dial-A-Prayer (911) shortly after each incident to give my side of the story in the event my attacker decided to get some 'payback' for his lumps. Each time I used it, I didn't need to extend it.

Bruised or cracked ribs can be a good deterrent and a LOT less paperwork than giving someone lead poisoning.

Just my $.02 worth...

I look forward to seeing you again my old Friend. Its been a long time... I really enjoyed your post-breakfast video. I'm sorry I missed that. I look forward to hearing about that Tap-Dancing Bear Show to follow.

Now wait... It says any firearm fitted to accept a silencer/with a threaded barrel *from the manufacturer*.

So if I take my pistol out and buy an aftermarket threaded drop-in barrel, that doesn't count, right?? It didn't come from the manufacturer like that.

MSC 45ACP said:

Peter, since my memory is just as bad if not worse than your own, I don't remember our previous answer. I don't remember reading anything that resembled a "resolution" to my query.

"Not very effective" you say? Well, Brother, I beg to differ... They aren't effective against a gun (unless you're pretty darn fast, already have it deployed and have a pair of brass doo-dads), but they work quite well as an intermediate weapon IF you have had training and experience to go with it. I went from carrying a 4 D-cell Mag Lite and using "Three from the Ring" to the ASP. It was a LOT lighter and more versatile. I've had to use it quite a few times (on and off duty).

Each time I used it "off-duty", I was in my car when someone tried to reach inside my vehicle to assault me. I was able to change their minds without causing a great deal of damage (unlike the results of one or more 230 gr. JHP's @ 600+fps). I did feel obligated to dial Government-Sponsored Dial-A-Prayer (911) shortly after each incident to give my side of the story in the event my attacker decided to get some 'payback' for his lumps. Each time I used it, I didn't need to extend it.

Bruised or cracked ribs can be a good deterrent and a LOT less paperwork than giving someone lead poisoning.

Just my $.02 worth...

I look forward to seeing you again my old Friend. Its been a long time... I really enjoyed your post-breakfast video. I'm sorry I missed that. I look forward to hearing about that Tap-Dancing Bear Show to follow.

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Been trained on both and used both. I never had the blackjack let me down. I had one situation where I actually bent the ASP on someones knee and he kept coming. I turned it around and hit him in the collar bone with the handle. That stopped him. That's pretty ineffective in my book:lol:

That's when the ASP went in the trash and I bought a Taser.

MSC 45ACP said:

Peter, since my memory is just as bad if not worse than your own, I don't remember our previous answer. I don't remember reading anything that resembled a "resolution" to my query.

"Not very effective" you say? Well, Brother, I beg to differ... They aren't effective against a gun (unless you're pretty darn fast, already have it deployed and have a pair of brass doo-dads), but they work quite well as an intermediate weapon IF you have had training and experience to go with it. I went from carrying a 4 D-cell Mag Lite and using "Three from the Ring" to the ASP. It was a LOT lighter and more versatile. I've had to use it quite a few times (on and off duty).

Each time I used it "off-duty", I was in my car when someone tried to reach inside my vehicle to assault me. I was able to change their minds without causing a great deal of damage (unlike the results of one or more 230 gr. JHP's @ 600+fps). I did feel obligated to dial Government-Sponsored Dial-A-Prayer (911) shortly after each incident to give my side of the story in the event my attacker decided to get some 'payback' for his lumps. Each time I used it, I didn't need to extend it.

Bruised or cracked ribs can be a good deterrent and a LOT less paperwork than giving someone lead poisoning.

Just my $.02 worth...

I look forward to seeing you again my old Friend. Its been a long time... I really enjoyed your post-breakfast video. I'm sorry I missed that. I look forward to hearing about that Tap-Dancing Bear Show to follow.

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Is it legal to open carry/? I know they always selling them at gun shows. Only thing I read is like a spring assisted tool, baton is not a spring. Its just a collapse tool.

That's when the ASP went in the trash and I bought a Taser.

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How much did you pay for yours? $20 ones just break when you slam them on anything hard, they break in half. Thats why you have to pay $100 for one. I saw a test video, guy bought a $90 one and a $20 one, smashed them on a chair and the $20 one bent on impact. $90 one kept working.

This is the video if you wanna learn about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y2bDimczRU

§ 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. For the purpose of this section, a weapon shall be deemed to be hidden from common observation when it is observable but is of such deceptive appearance as to disguise the weapon's true nature.

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Nothing about "BATON" and a spring stick is different than a baton. But then again you see (V) there....???? I guess it is illegal to CC it but not OC?

ocholsteroc said:

How much did you pay for yours? $20 ones just break when you slam them on anything hard, they break in half.
This is the video if you wanna learn about it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y2bDimczRU

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I don't remember how much I paid exactly. Over a hundred. I took my equipment seriously back then.
It was the same model the Marine Resource Police used because it was part of their order.

user said:

§ 18.2-300. Possession or use of "sawed-off" shotgun or rifle.

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Only illegal if you have one in your possession during the commission of a crime. Otherwise, if you have the proper paperwork, it's perfectly legal.

Another stupid law making something that is already illegal, "more illegal"...

user said:

§ 18.2-308.5. Manufacture, import, sale, transfer or possession of plastic firearm prohibited.

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Since no such thing exists ANYWHERE in the firearms world, why does this law even exist? It's like making it against the law to make it a felony to drive your motorcycle faster than the speed of light...

Its good to see our elected representatives are spending so much time drafting and passing laws that are based COMPLETELY on fictional events, and are for regulating devices that violate the laws of physics and modern material science...

user said:

§ 18.2-308.8. Importation, sale, possession or transfer of Striker 12's prohibited; penalty.

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Unless you're a cop. Then it's OK to have one...

Or if you have the proper BATFE paperwork for one that you got prior to the Federal importation ban on them...

user said:

§ 18.2-311. Prohibiting the selling or having in possession blackjacks, etc.

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But you can take a few rolls of quarters and put them in a tube sock, and it's not illegal to carry around, and can do a LOT more damage...

Actually this law was one of those Jim Crow laws that attempt to prohibit poor people and minorities from arming themselves for self-defense with ANYTHING, and should be struck from the books for the racist, classist elitist atrocity that it is. We have a similar law in NC, and it has NOTHING to do with "safety"--it's all about keeping cheap but effective defensive weapons out of the hands of poor people...

But all in all, VA has pretty good laws, with a few minor exceptions.

You want to talk WEIRD firearms laws, come to NC...

Here you can't carry in a movie theater, or at a funeral, and we have to get little permission slips from the sheriff to buy a handgun. In the 21st century--we still have to ask permission from the local constabulary to exercise our 2A rights.

As much as I love living in the South, the sad fact is that Jim Crow is alive and well in many of our State Houses...

ocholsteroc said:

It means my P22/threaded barrel can not be carryed unless you have a CHP, and my Glock I can not use a 33 round magazine when I am OC'ing. (and who the heck would want to OC a 33 round magazine?:uhoh

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You are incorrect on the P22, being a rimfire it is not covered by this law.

§ 18.2-287.4. Carrying loaded firearms in public areas prohibited; penalty.
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry a loaded (a) semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol

I don't want to doubt the veracity of anyone's word here, but I can't imagine an ASP (I mean the one with that name, not just any Expandable Baton) breaking or bending when hitting someone's leg. Quite the contrary. Mine can break a solid 2" x 2" or 2" x 3" without a problem.

Actually, there is a slight problem... The vibration going through it (even with foam-covered grip) HURTS when you swing it at anything really solid. I have several training tapes from when I 'on the job'.
I've NEVER heard of a single problem with the ASP.

http://www.asp-usa.com/

Peter, I'm sorry someone sold you a 'bill of goods' when you bought your baton. After some research, I think you probably got hoodwinked with an Asian-Knockoff. I can't believe you (of all people) would get 'taken' like that. You're welcome to try mine sometime or you can check out the ASP site above. They really do have a quality product. That can be hard to find in this day and age. I've known some LEOs that like the Winchester baton, but I think its too much like a baseball bat than a baton. Its a bit thicker than the ASP.

I am debating if I should start OCing the ASP, but if I do, I may as well just wear a "Bat Belt" with inner velco-belt, keepers, flashlight, OC-spray and a double mag-pouch, too! To stay out of 'trouble', I should probably remove my handcuff holder and 2 pairs of Peerless cuffs. I don't know if they're legal to carry or not, but I'm pretty sure I can't think of a time when I'd want to use them. Then again, maybe I'll just stick with just carrying a pistol and spare magazine.

Things are actually much more simple these days... I don't have to think about a Use of Force Continuum, how much force to use when I swing that ASP, hitting someone above the shoulders with that ASP (considered deadly force, and if you DO hit above the shoulder, you'd better be able to articulate that deadly force was necessary), Which way is the wind blowing IF I need to hose someone down with that OC or making sure the BG is in the right position when I need to cuff him (or her)... The list could go on for pages and pages on the limitations placed on LEOs when they're 'on the job'.

These days, I only have to worry about which pistol I'm going to carry for the day (or if I want to carry both) and where I'm going to go that day (because I may not be able to carry there). I only worry about a very small fraction of what an LEO has to deal with every time he carries... The 'ol Judgemental Course.

It was a black & white 16mm film projected onto a white bedsheet hung from the ceiling with 10 scenarios that required the person being tested to "shoot or not shoot" using a Colt 1911 loaded with a "squib round" (a plastic bullet in a casing with just a primer). They had to be reloaded by the 'instructor' between scenarios.

I only have to worry about one thing... Shoot or Don't Shoot. Why carry all that other crap?

I seem to have digressed a bit (as some old~farts tend to do). Limitations? We don't have very many.

MSC 45ACP said:

http://www.asp-usa.com/

Peter, I'm sorry someone sold you a 'bill of goods' when you bought your baton. After some research, I think you probably got hoodwinked with an Asian-Knockoff. I can't believe you (of all people) would get 'taken' like that. You're welcome to try mine sometime or you can check out the ASP site above.
I only have to worry about one thing... Shoot or Don't Shoot. Why carry all that other crap?

I seem to have digressed a bit (as some old~farts tend to do). Limitations? We don't have very many.

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Thanks for the offer MSC but that part of my life is long past. I do keep a couple of pairs of cuffs at the farm for the occasional trespasser that wants to argue, but even that is pretty much over now that the word has gotten around I don't have much of a sense of humor.

I do still wear a Taser (a little more up to date model) but that's about as much extra equipment as I want to cart around in addition to the cameras and recorders.