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Thread: Dubious No Carry signage at Hardcore Pawn

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    Regular Member StingMP9's Avatar
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    Dubious No Carry signage at Hardcore Pawn

    The issue in this case is simple concealed carry so sorry it's not OC. I know a lot of jewelry stores like to prohibit weapons on the front door of their store. Such signs must regrettably be respected. I don't patronize Value City Furniture because of this type of policy.

    Last month the sign that seemed like it might not be correctly worded that I saw was when I went to American Jewelry & Loan in Detroit, you all know the place if you watch Hardcore Pawn on TruTV. Does anyone believe they are correct in prohibiting carry by stating "Attention: Your CPL license is not honored here for CCW" or similar wording to this effect. I for one don't think they can put up a sign like this to say a CPL is no good there like they are a state law free island instead posting one of those signs we might be more used to stating no weapons policy under the penalty of trespassing.

    What say you.
    "Reason can never be popular. Passions and feelings can become popular, but reason will always remain the sole property of a few eminent individuals."
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    their sign is as poorly worded as the ikea signs which say something along the lines of "this is a weapons free store"
    which his hardly a notice of no weapons allowed. i ignore all grammatically incorrect signs.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    for that matter, i ignore all firearms related signs since there is no law that i have to read all the garbage plastered on the outside of a building before entering.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member StingMP9's Avatar
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    I ignored it too while concealing so my wife was concerned that I would get into trouble. Sort of scoffed at that idea.
    Bought a TV but I probably won't return.
    "Reason can never be popular. Passions and feelings can become popular, but reason will always remain the sole property of a few eminent individuals."
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I have no reason to ever go there and don't see why anyone would either.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    buying, selling or pawing something, perhaps?
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
    http://www.graystatemovie.com/

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    buying, selling or pawing something, perhaps?
    Many other pawn shops...in better locations with better clientele.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I remember watching an episode where somebody was open carrying in their shop. I don't remember what the guy was trying to sell/pawn but from what I could tell on the show they didn't seem to care. Maybe they're just against CC in their store for people who aren't employees. My family rented a Uhaul from a business that had a sign saying no concealed weapons except for employees. I wasn't open carrying so I don't know if they would have cared about OC or not.
    "No state shall convert a liberty to a privilege, license it, and charge a fee therefor.- Murdock vs Pennsylvania 319 US 105

    ...If the state converts a right into a privelege, the citizen can ignore the license and fee and engage in the right... with impunity.
    - Shuttleworth vs City of Birmingham, Alabama 317 US 262

    Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no legislation which would abrogate them.
    - Miranda vs Arizona 384 US 436

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    Someone nearby should OC there and see what they say. Worst case, they ask you to leave, and you comply. You might even get OC a little free air time.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Someone nearby should OC there and see what they say. Worst case, they ask you to leave, and you comply. You might even get OC a little free air time.
    Maybe it's just me but since there is already a "no guns" sign of sorts at this pawn shop.... I suspect any "free air time" could end up giving the pawn shop an opportunity to play the outraged victim and portray the OC'er as the bad guy. In short I suspect any air time could end up showing OC in a bad light.

    Just my not adjusted for inflation 2 pennies.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    Why would you choose to shop at a place that does not respect your right to carry? Also why is it people have the attitude concealed means concealed so people won't know. As much as I disagree with them posting this, it is perfectly legal. If we want others to respect and honor our rights, shouldn't we honor their rights(private property) as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    Why would you choose to shop at a place that does not respect your right to carry? Also why is it people have the attitude concealed means concealed so people won't know. As much as I disagree with them posting this, it is perfectly legal. If we want others to respect and honor our rights, shouldn't we honor their rights(private property) as well?
    To further this point, would you still walk past the 'no firearms' sign on a business and continue shopping there if you knew the owner used the profits off your purchase to donate it the the Brady Campaign? Why shop places that could be using your money to further the anti-gun agenda?

    Motor City Pawn on Gratiot in Roseville had Zero issue with Scott and I OCing in there.

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    some would say that a public accommodation DOES NOT have the right to trample the constitution.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP1Wgkh5MeE
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 06-02-2011 at 10:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    some would say that a public accommodation DOES NOT have the right to trample the constitution.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP1Wgkh5MeE
    That may be true but it does not address my point. Let's say tomorrow it's ruled by SCOTUS that private business cannot restrict firearme carry. Now you are out t-shirt shopping, in the mall there is Sara Brady's t-shirt shop right next to Charelton Hestons shop...neither can ban firearm carry and they both have the Detroit Tigers t-shirt you want...who are you giving your hard earned money to? The chick who pumps every nickel of profit towards taking away your rights or the guy who spends his money safe guarding them? That's my point.
    Last edited by scot623; 06-02-2011 at 11:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Maybe it's just me but since there is already a "no guns" sign of sorts at this pawn shop.... I suspect any "free air time" could end up giving the pawn shop an opportunity to play the outraged victim and portray the OC'er as the bad guy. In short I suspect any air time could end up showing OC in a bad light.

    Just my not adjusted for inflation 2 pennies.
    The only way OC would be cast in a bad light, (assuming airtime that is,) would be if the OCer was being an asshat. If an OCer walked in, was picked up by a camera, asked to leave by a nervous employee, and then responded politely and professionally as he/she was leaving, then I think that would be a good thing. The only ones who would look bad, would be the pawn shop. Another scenario might arise, that the OCer might change thier minds due to the way he/she handled the situation.

    Maybe the sign would stay up, but just maybe, it could be replaced with one of those MOC open carry welcome stickers.

    Maybe the OCer never saw the sign because they were starstruck.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    That may be true but it does not address my point. Let's say tomorrow it's ruled by SCOTUS that private business cannot restrict firearme carry. Now you are out t-shirt shopping, in the mall there is Sara Brady's t-shirt shop right next to Charelton Hestons shop...neither can ban firearm carry and they both have the Detroit Tigers t-shirt you want...who are you giving your hard earned money to? The chick who pumps every nickel of profit towards taking away your rights or the guy who spends his money safe guarding them? That's my point.
    i would definitely window shop in the sara brady. strong side to the employees just because i could. then look for the larry pratt store, because heston's not getting my money either.
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 06-02-2011 at 12:18 PM.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    The only way OC would be cast in a bad light, (assuming airtime that is,) would be if the OCer was being an asshat. If an OCer walked in, was picked up by a camera, asked to leave by a nervous employee, and then responded politely and professionally as he/she was leaving, then I think that would be a good thing. The only ones who would look bad, would be the pawn shop. Another scenario might arise, that the OCer might change thier minds due to the way he/she handled the situation.

    Maybe the sign would stay up, but just maybe, it could be replaced with one of those MOC open carry welcome stickers.

    Maybe the OCer never saw the sign because they were starstruck.
    Hmmm.... you are optimistic my friend... but here is another viewpoint....

    OC'er walks in and nervous shop employee asks the OC'er to leave (whether asking politely or irately) and OC'er calmly leaves.....

    To us the OC'er did good...

    The folks who don't like guns just saw an OC'er get told off and/or run off and are high fiveing each other in glee.

    The folks who aren't sure about guns just saw an OC'er get told off and/or run off are left with the impression that guns, and the folks who carry them, are not liked or welcomed.

    Those who are thinking about OC'ing but aren't sure if they want to try it just saw an OC'er get told off and/or run off leaving the impression that they too will be told off and/or run off and that will weigh heavily in their decision to OC.. or not OC.

    But no matter who sees that TV coverage the general impression of someone being asked to leave is that the one asked was doing something wrong.... and the impression that there is something wrong with OC will stick in the minds of those who saw it happen.

    In my not so humble opinion what needs to be seen on TV/in the media are instances where OC is accepted, welcomed, made some smart arse suddenly become polite or stop treating someone poorly, or even deterring a possible crime.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 06-02-2011 at 04:11 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Ok, you have won me over, I agree.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    Ok, you have won me over, I agree.
    To a better point, ITS TV, THEY CAN SPIN IT ANYWAY THEY WANT!!! They show the OC'r being asked to leave, they do not show his polite reaction, they cut to him getting in his car, while playing a rude sound effect, like slamming the door. Then they interview a security guard, who gives a "expert inerview" about how OC is dangerous, tacticly un-sound, and that people that do it are unstable. During the "expert interview", they will zoom in on the no carry sign, on the front door, while cutting back and forth to the security guard. The security guard will go into how CC is the way to go, and how its only safe for police and security to carry in public, and business owners to carry on their property. Then they will interview the owners, they will talk about why they "have" to have security, and its because of people with firearms (not mentioning once that an OC'r has never given them a problem, and are law abiding citizens). Then they would interview a shopper, and have them say how "scared" and "intimated" they were (they pay people to say what they want on this show BTW).

    See how this might go???

    Food For Thought, kind ladies and gents~!
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 06-02-2011 at 09:42 PM.
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    Signs don't have the force of law behind them, so I ignore them when concealed carrying into businesses. When open carrying, I'll respect their wishes and spend my money at their competitor.

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubel View Post
    Signs don't have the force of law behind them, so I ignore them when concealed carrying into businesses. When open carrying, I'll respect their wishes and spend my money at their competitor.
    Let me see if I understand your position clearly....

    When CC'ing and not concerned about anyone in a business posted for no guns noticing that you have a gun..... you are quite willing to disrespect their wishes and carry your hidden gun despite the no guns sign... and to spend your money there and support an anti gun business.....

    But when OC'ing where the folks in the business WILL notice that you have a gun contrary to their no guns sign THEN you will shop elsewhere using the excuse of respecting their wishes?

    Please explain since I'm having a difficult time figuring out what the difference is between carrying a hidden gun that no one will see (you won't get caught) and carrying a gun in plain sight (you will get caught) in a business with a no gun sign?
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Im with Bikenut, and SG28. Don't give 'em yer money.

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    Regular Member dukenukum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    Why would you choose to shop at a place that does not respect your right to carry? Also why is it people have the attitude concealed means concealed so people won't know. As much as I disagree with them posting this, it is perfectly legal. If we want others to respect and honor our rights, shouldn't we honor their rights(private property) as well?
    I agree we should honor there wishes by spending our money at places that respect our rights.

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    Regular Member StingMP9's Avatar
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    It was a question of the legal wording of the signage... not to invoke each opinion about whether I or you should shop in the establishment. Only SmellslikeMichigan gave me the answer to the posed question.
    "Reason can never be popular. Passions and feelings can become popular, but reason will always remain the sole property of a few eminent individuals."
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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StingMP9 View Post
    It was a question of the legal wording of the signage... not to invoke each opinion about whether I or you should shop in the establishment. Only SmellslikeMichigan gave me the answer to the posed question.
    You would be legal, yes. You are not required to read a sign in the state of Michigan, not a sign posted on private property at least (speed limit signs on public property is another story). If they asked you to leave, you would have to, at that point you would be trespassing.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
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