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Thread: Are You Crazy If You Open Carry?

  1. #1
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Are You Crazy If You Open Carry?

    http://www.usacarry.com/are-you-craz...ou-open-carry/

    My point is, when it comes to carrying a gun I’m doing it for practical personal protection reasons and open carry isn’t “practical” in my eyes. Now, I know that half of you just screamed at your computer “this guy’s an idiot, of course it’s practical,” so let me explain.

    About the Author:
    Jason R. Hanson is a former CIA officer. He’s also an NRA Certified Instructor, a Utah Concealed Firearms Permit Instructor and an Eagle Scout. Jason believes there are few things in life as important as being able to protect yourself and your loved ones.

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    What does open carry have to do with my being crazy?
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Regular Member xxx.jakk.xxx's Avatar
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    Apparently I'm crazy because i have no need to hide my firearm. =]
    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Psalms 23:4

    "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." Benjamin Franklin

    “It’s always open season on criminals in Mason County, and there’s no bag limit.” Sen. Tim Sheldon (D)

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    Regular Member BigDeeeeeeee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post

    About the Author:
    Jason R. Hanson is a Utah Concealed Firearms Permit Instructor
    Always follow the money.

  5. #5
    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    Sounds like the same arguments I've been hearing for years
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    Regular Member 1911er's Avatar
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    Who said I am crazy

    I am not crazy am not! am not! am not! ok maybe just a little
    I truly Love my Country, But the government scares the he!! out of me.

    DEMAND IT
    Congress SHALL NOT receive A salary greater than any service member and will be given EQUIVELANT insurance as any service member

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Same old, tired, worn out, lame, self-centered, misinformed arguments....

    Personally though, you’ll never catch me open carrying. You see, I’m a very practical sort of guy.
    My point is, when it comes to carrying a gun I’m doing it for practical personal protection reasons and open carry isn’t “practical” in my eyes.
    If I’m ever face to face with a criminal who’s about to take my life or someone near me I want him to look at me and think I’m some harmless guy in jeans and a t-shirt
    .

    Being 'practical' and wearing jeans and a t-shirt makes it difficult to conceal a full size handgun and therefore, inherently safe firearm. Unless of course he is wearing a "shoot-me-first vest"

    I don’t want anyone else to know I have a gun. I don’t want to be standing in a 7-11 one day and have some criminal run in and shoot me first
    Last edited by gogodawgs; 06-01-2011 at 10:03 PM.
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    Regular Member Outdoorsman1's Avatar
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    I know for a fact that I am not crazy because the voices in my head keep telling me so....

    Outdoorsman1
    Last edited by Outdoorsman1; 06-01-2011 at 10:09 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    ..Same old, tired, worn out, lame, self-centered, misinformed arguments....
    Major +1, and based on a personal opinion of someone who by his own admission is not a practitioner - IMHO he is what we used to call a "weak sister."
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ATF Consumer's Avatar
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    I never understood why some like to tell others what to do...has something to do with control...
    I'd tell you UDP jokes, but you probably wouldn't get them every time, so I'll only tell TCP jokes, that way you'll always get them!

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Considering that most CIA agents are analysts, bookworms, and "geeks", not the Arnold Schwarzenegger character Harry Tasker (True Lies) or Jack Ryan in all the Clancy novels, I don't give this guy any special "props" on his firearm skills. Nor do I care about his opinions on how one chooses to carry.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Until a judge has you committed and decides to take your CPL, you're not crazy.

    RCW 9.41.098
    Forfeiture of firearms — Disposition — Confiscation.


    (g) In the possession of a person found to have been mentally incompetent while in possession of a firearm when apprehended or who is thereafter committed pursuant to chapter 10.77 or 71.05 RCW;

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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    Until a judge has you committed and decides to take your CPL, you're not crazy.

    RCW 9.41.098
    Forfeiture of firearms — Disposition — Confiscation.


    (g) In the possession of a person found to have been mentally incompetent while in possession of a firearm when apprehended or who is thereafter committed pursuant to chapter 10.77 or 71.05 RCW;
    Tell that to Jared Loughner's victims! He was able to lawfully possess a weapon--until he was adjudicated incompetent last week. CWC (carry while crazy) is quite possible and hard to stop short of locking the nut up. But that usually doesn't happen until after an incident.

  14. #14
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    OK, in Washington State....

    Until you have been "Involuntarily Committed" for 14 or more days, you are not judged mentally incompetent.

    <edit> I didn't realize this got moved to the national forum......
    Last edited by Bill Starks; 06-01-2011 at 11:18 PM.

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    Regular Member GuidoZ's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Considering that most CIA agents are analysts, bookworms, and "geeks", not the Arnold Schwarzenegger character Harry Tasker (True Lies) or Jack Ryan in all the Clancy novels, I don't give this guy any special "props" on his firearm skills. Nor do I care about his opinions on how one chooses to carry.
    Hey, who has a problem with being a geeky CIA agent? (O_o) I just happen to know a REALLY great guy, VERY close to me, who MAY fit that description.

    --
    Peace. ~G

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    .

    Being 'practical' and wearing jeans and a t-shirt makes it difficult to conceal a full size handgun and therefore, inherently safe firearm. Unless of course he is wearing a "shoot-me-first vest"
    So we keep hearing about "shoot me first" vests, and the the open carrier will only be shot first when a criminal comes barging in, and yadda yadda yadda...

    Can anyone anywhere point to some verifiable source where an "obviously armed" (SMF vest or OC), LAC was actually targeted, either directly, or so the bad guy can move on to other targets?

    On the other hand, we've all seen plenty of verifiable stories here where the mere presence of an open carrier *MAY* have diffused a crime before it actually happened. Still no post saying "I'm typing this from the hospital... was in 7/11 and this guy came bustin' in, took one look at me & shot me!"

    Then there's the fact that "concealment" is generally an offensive tactic whereas open display is a defensive (deterrent) tactic.
    Last edited by Metalhead47; 06-02-2011 at 02:23 AM.
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  17. #17
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    I see an overwhelming amount of "Who cares how you carry, JUST CARRY!" type of comments. I like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by SayWhat View Post

    Shooters before hooters.

  18. #18
    Regular Member M-Taliesin's Avatar
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    Feldercarb!

    Howdy Folks!
    I find it a bit curious that the OP is a firearms instructor who boasts impressive credentials, but evidently believes open carriers are crazy. I find it curious because he doesn't seem to consider contrary argument as being lucid and sane.

    For starters, the whole subject of getting a CCW permit is costly. Here in Colorado, you must first take a CCW class that will cost you around $100 on average. Then you've got to apply to the local Sheriff's office or chief of police (in some jurisdictions). You'll cough up another $152 for your permit... assuming you get it within the time required by statute, you're waiting up to 90 days.

    Think about that one for a moment. 90 days to receive your concealed carry permit. 90 days to remain unarmed and unprepared to protect yourself, your family or your neighbors while out and about. 90 days to be defenseless when that hood busts into the 7-11 and shoots you first because you can't do anything about it. 90 days while at the mercy of that felon at Wallmart who chooses to commit some nefarious act of violence. It is my personal opinion that you'd be crazy (in today's society) not to be armed at all when in public, out in the world, where the bad guys are.

    The notion that an openly carried weapon will simply make you the first target of a robbery attempt at the 7-11 is ludicrious beyond description. The suggestion being some punk that wants to rob the place (committing armed robbery being one thing) will blissfully add an attempted murder rap to his problems rather than simply waiting for you to leave the place so he can rob it. Hello? Is this thing on??? Ever consider that perhaps your visible display of a firearm might cause the punk to reconsider his options and cause him to abandon the crime altogether? Hello??? Is it me, or is that argument rather silly?

    Next comes the basic fact that I am a free American. I have rights under the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution of the State of Colorado, and Colorado revised statutes. I have the right, supported by all these basic fundaments of law, to keep and BEAR arms. That means I am free to carry my sidearm for my protection. That right, however, can be sold off to get a CCW *permit*. Now I have a privelege instead of a right. I must pay somebody for their permission to exercise my inalienable rights as a citizen. They'll trade me a little I.D. card to carry, showing the world I've sold my rights and voluntarily accepted a tax to conceal my gun. That's what it really is. A tax on those who lawfully exercise a privelege rather than exert their Constitutional rights.

    I won't even bother to address the nonsensical business about situational awareness and gun grabs by miscreants. Since I have yet to see one single shred of evidence that any open carrier ever had his weapon grabbed by a bad guy, there's really no issue to argue here.

    Finally, most punks out there are basically cowardly. They look for soft targets. They don't want complications while engaged in criminal activity. They want easy victims. I'd think a certified CCW instructor would already know this simple fact, but evidently it hasn't dawned on him. So let's consider the behavior of the average criminal. Most police agencies will gladly share their information on how to avoid becoming a victim. All you gotta do is ask for it. Among the first things they'll explain is that the best way to become a victim is to appear "an easy mark". They look for those who appear least able to fight back or make a fuss. They look for those who seem unaware of their surroundings and other people around them. "I never saw him coming" is a phrase too often used by victims. Criminals dearly love victims who aren't paying attention. It indicates they aren't too tough for them to take by surprise, make a clean hit and make good their getaway with the money, purse, etc. They aren't really interested in getting into a gunfight. They see an armed citizen, prepared to fight back, and that's just more trouble than most are willing to deal with. They'll pass the OC'er in favor of an easier target. You don't need to be a rocket surgeon to figure this out. Just ask any cop on the street.

    Finally, the original post would seem to suggest that most cops are crazy, because they openly carry their sidearms. Hello???? Now why on earth would cops do that? Could it be that the presence of their sidearm, in full view of the public, sends a visible message to criminals in our midst that certain people are not to be trifled with? Is it therefore reasonable to conclude that a citizen does not send a similar message?

    I've already gone much farther than I intended at the outset. It is difficult for me to believe that a certified CCW instructor would preach such ludicrous ideas. If he doesn't wish to open carry, that's his right. But don't even begin to intimate that my right to do so is any less valid; much less insinuate that I might be crazy. I am not bashing the OP, because I don't know him from Adam. But his suggestion that open carriers might be crazy is inappropriate and insulting. Especially on a board devoted to open carry.

    What really seems crazy to me is to heed bad advice presented with an overtly glib attitude toward a matter of such serious implication.

    Blessings,
    M-Taliesin
    Last edited by M-Taliesin; 06-02-2011 at 06:57 AM.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M-Taliesin View Post
    I am not bashing the OP, because I don't know him from Adam. But his suggestion that open carriers might be crazy is inappropriate and insulting. Especially on a board devoted to open carry.
    Um.... dude....?

    The "OP" IS an open carrier. He was merely quoting and linking to a story written by someone else for the sake of discussion....
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuidoZ View Post
    Hey, who has a problem with being a geeky CIA agent? (O_o) I just happen to know a REALLY great guy, VERY close to me, who MAY fit that description.

    --
    Peace. ~G
    I have no problem with any of them. I was just trying to point out that there are more of those in the CIA than the ones portrayed in movies that jump out of planes, master every weapon known to man, can defuse a nuclear device with one second to go, and end up in bed with a different "drop dead gorgeous" woman every night.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Um.... dude....?

    The "OP" IS an open carrier. He was merely quoting and linking to a story written by someone else for the sake of discussion....
    I was confused as to who thought what for a while. It would have been clearer if the OP had used the quote button to enclose the words of others.

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    I noticed in the article that he is just using his argument as a selling point for concealed carry
    Whoever thought switching to your sidearm was faster than reloading your rifle has never been hit in the **** with a swinging barrel.

    You cant fight the Gorgatron with your keys all... willy nilly..

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApacheBunny View Post
    I noticed in the article that he is just using his argument as a selling point for concealed carry
    Definitely a "follow the money" moment.

    My stance and that of VCDL and OCDO which have always been reported to be that of defending the choice of how or even if someone chooses to carry.

    When someone says that only their way is the right way - I see them as a closed book on a high, dusty shelf.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    Can anyone anywhere point to some verifiable source where an "obviously armed" (SMF vest or OC), LAC was actually targeted, either directly, or so the bad guy can move on to other targets?

    It is an established fact that the ONLY "bad guys" who target lawful OCers for violent attack are the ones wearing badges...

    I don't mean nothin' by that... I'm just sayin'...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    It is an established fact that the ONLY "bad guys" who target lawful OCers for violent attack are the ones wearing badges...

    I don't mean nothin' by that... I'm just sayin'...
    .....
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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