eye95
Well-known member
I was confused as to who thought what for a while. It would have been clearer if the OP had used the quote button to enclose the words of others.
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Are You Crazy If You Open Carry?
- Thread starter Bill Starks
- Start date
I was confused as to who thought what for a while. It would have been clearer if the OP had used the quote button to enclose the words of others.
ApacheBunny
Regular Member
I noticed in the article that he is just using his argument as a selling point for concealed carry
Definitely a "follow the money" moment.
My stance and that of VCDL and OCDO which have always been reported to be that of defending the choice of how or even if someone chooses to carry.
When someone says that only their way is the right way - I see them as a closed book on a high, dusty shelf.
Except in regards to the open carrying of a long gun.
Dreamer
Regular Member
It is an established fact that the ONLY "bad guys" who target lawful OCers for violent attack are the ones wearing badges...
I don't mean nothin' by that... I'm just sayin'...
M-Taliesin
Regular Member
Howdy Metalhead!
That wasn't very clear to me when I first read the opening post in this thread. It seemed to me the position of the poster rather than the information of a 3rd party.
Regardless, I'll stand by my belief that the article itself seemed to posit that their way was the only way. I ain't got much interest in a "one size fits all" solution, and my response was based on the notion that different folks will find their own strokes.
I don't much care for "my way or the highway" type of posts, and the original struck me that way. If you don't conceal, you must be crazy, was inherently inappropriate and insulting to me as an OC'er, and whatever option I exercise for myself is entirely as valid as any other option another may choose.
Hope I've cleared that up, and if the OP was not the author of the original article, it should be indicated better. It is not my intention here to undermine the original poster, considering I do not know that person from Adam either. But if the OP was merely quoting a third party, that third party should be viewed as the subject of my response.
Blessings,
M-Taliesin
Dreamer
Regular Member
.....
Do I need to provide links to Philly stories, CA stories, and Skidmark's story?
Truth is NOT "bashing'...
When such is hammered to the point that everything looks like a nail, it might be somewhat overdone - I never said "bashing either, but still it is not necessary to introduce this elememnt of your POV so often. It definitely doesn't fit this thread and most assuredly there was no "violence" by LEOs in the instance of Skid/Surry.
GuidoZ
Regular Member
Ain't that the truth...
Badger Johnson
Regular Member
+10
In the old days, a guy wore his six-shooter on his hip and was considered 'above board'. Anyone concealing (usually a derringer) was considered sneaky and underhanded. It's not easy to see how we came to the state we have today.
If nothing else, carrying concealed is expensive. Ask anyone who does it. When they finally decide on a method they have:
1) box full of holsters, most of them cheapies
2) concealment vest(s)
3) belly bands, ankle holster bands, bra bands
4) a mouse gun and a bigger gun, and a yet bigger gun and finally an actual full-size single stack 1911 with an actual trigger and a hammer (not a long travel piece of crap bang hook and a striker).
5) a box full of mags
6) boxes of .32 cal, .380 cal, 9mm, .40 cal, .45 cal, 10mm. With an actual OC HG you have boxes of .45, no need to fart around with hollow points, hot loads, 'defensive ammo', range ammo.
You shoot more ammo trying to figure out why you're not accurate. You get laser grips and .40 cals with muzzle flip, then you realize the gun is too light, the trigger sucks, the guide rod is plastic, there's unneeded recoil, slide rails are half plastic, all in the name of trying to make a HG light enough to carry in the IWB with a cheap belt and having your pants slide down.
Don't get me wrong, I love all the above, but for me money's no object - it's a relatively inexpensive hobby and it gets me out of the house on a regular basis.
$.02
I have Heard This Argument Myself..., and here are My Thoughts: 1. A Person is NOT Mentally Ill for choosing to follow The Laws of The Jurisdiction where He or She Lives, AND 2. This Argument is Used by 'Gun-Grabbers' who do NOT like The Fact that Law-abiding Firearm Owners, such as Those of US who Frequent This Forum, can Legally Keep and Bear Arms, because; We have NOT Committed ANY Crime or made any other Choice in Life that 'The Left' can Use as an Excuse to take OUR Firearm Rights away.
'The Left' WILL Use The Argument that a Person is Crazy as a 'Last-Ditch' Effort to have an otherwise Law-abiding Citizen Disarmed.
The Real Translation of Telling a Law-abiding Citizen that He or She is Crazy for Open Carry is: I do NOT like it that You can do that..., Open Carry Offends Me..., and I Hate You for it.
'The Left' WILL Use The Argument that a Person is Crazy as a 'Last-Ditch' Effort to have an otherwise Law-abiding Citizen Disarmed.
The Real Translation of Telling a Law-abiding Citizen that He or She is Crazy for Open Carry is: I do NOT like it that You can do that..., Open Carry Offends Me..., and I Hate You for it.
ixtow
Founder's Club Member
Lets see. First he's an 'only one.' Second, he makes piles of money off of selling permits for what is supposed to be a Right...
Nah, not biased at all... [/sarcasm]
I and my family deserve better than to look like a soft target, even if I/we do have a fighting chance after something bad starts. I'd rather look like a hard target and prevent anything bad from getting started in the first place.
I still haven't had anyone manage to defend th notion of "the element of surprise" as defensive. Defensive is showing your force so the Bad Guy doesn't even start. Hiding your gun invites an attack which you then get to 'ambush' by whipping out your piece and telling stories about how your macho-ness made that Bad Guy change his mind right quick... I question the mindset of someone who sees that ego-tripping behavior as a good thing, and doubt they should be carrying a gun... Why wait for a bad guy to attack and then use force to change his mind? Put it out there and PREVENT instead of trying to CURE it with lead...
CC just doesn't make sense and none of the CCer's arguments against OC make sense either. "Criminals are cowards and don't want anything to do with someone who has a gun." Then in the very next sentence they'll tell you "Oh, but they'll attack you first cuz they can see your gun!!" Say what? Are you on crack? Are you listening to yourself? Hello? What they are really tryign to do is protect their "only one's" status as a permit holder. That permission slip that makes them specialer than you. They defy their own arguments to keep their 'better than you are' class-ranking intact. It's ego, and the State stroked it by giving them a plastic card... they like that ego trip, they don't want to let it go.
Only desk-job Cops support CC over OC. They've gotten arrogant and 'better' than the citizens they're supposed to be serving. They play politics. The higher-ranking they are, the less credible they become. Cops that still actually do real cop work would all (from my questioning) prefer to see who has a gun and who doesn't. It's common-sense. See my signature...
I only CC because I'm not allowed to carry any other way in my stupid-as-hell State. Floriduh... CC is better than nothing; but nothing is all it is better than.
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Dreamer
Regular Member
I suppose if one doesn't consider malicious prosecution, perjury, color-of-law civil rights violations and false arrest a form of "violence", then you're right...
Personally, I find such blatant attacks on the rights of an upstanding, law-abiding Citizen such as Skid to be an egregious form of "Bureaucratic Violence". I see Skid's victimization as something that should not be tolerated by our Society, and the sort of "attack" that deserves the swiftest and most harsh judicial punishment the Courts can mete out on the offenders.
Can we at least agree on that?
I suppose this is the same guy.
Jump to the 5:00 mark and watch as the race to reholster gets the shirt all wadded-up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY3Q6z511Qo&feature=related
Jump to the 5:00 mark and watch as the race to reholster gets the shirt all wadded-up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY3Q6z511Qo&feature=related
Without a doubt that and a lot more - we share a common ground.
Forum appropriate still is a consideration that should not be ignored though. Here we focus on that which directly is part and parcel to OC and RKBA. I prefer to simplify the problem into its actual component parts (actions) and attack each fact accordingly, rather than making overly broad generalizations and thereby entering a larger political arena.
It is true that the circumstances in which Skid has had the misfortune to be involved are emblematic of a greater problem which is pervasive within our society/government, but those references and discussions should not push OCDO in new directions.
Unquestionably the Surry/Skidmark debacle demanded a strong response not just for his personal benefit, but more so for the far reaching effect on others.
EricDailey X-NRA
Regular Member
Follow the Money
("About the Author:
Jason R. Hanson is a former CIA officer. He’s also an NRA Certified Instructor, a Utah Concealed Firearms Permit Instructor and an Eagle Scout.")
The author of "Are You Crazy If You Open Carry?" and especially the site he posted his "opinion" on, USA Carry have financial interests in concealed carry. The CC industry is a huge financial market. Note the very sensational headline he used. I'll bet my bail money that this headline alone spiked the traffic to the web site.
When I see the words crazy and firearms together I am usually reading a "gunhaters" comments. Both of the above are associated with a national 2A group that has been in the news for working against the 2A. Concealed Carry laws are anti-2A. Concealed Carry fees are an unconstitutional TAX on firearms and an extortion racket that feeds agencies who hate your rights. The author is a Fed and is unlikely to know or understand or care about the Second Amendment. His "opinion" is being slammed across the interwebs and I expect many non-OC'ers are learning much from reading the comments to his post and on other Forums and sites and FB, where it has been referenced. He is being widely criticized.
There is profit to be had from bondage.
Liberty is costly.
We have work to do if we will remain free.
("About the Author:
Jason R. Hanson is a former CIA officer. He’s also an NRA Certified Instructor, a Utah Concealed Firearms Permit Instructor and an Eagle Scout.")
The author of "Are You Crazy If You Open Carry?" and especially the site he posted his "opinion" on, USA Carry have financial interests in concealed carry. The CC industry is a huge financial market. Note the very sensational headline he used. I'll bet my bail money that this headline alone spiked the traffic to the web site.
When I see the words crazy and firearms together I am usually reading a "gunhaters" comments. Both of the above are associated with a national 2A group that has been in the news for working against the 2A. Concealed Carry laws are anti-2A. Concealed Carry fees are an unconstitutional TAX on firearms and an extortion racket that feeds agencies who hate your rights. The author is a Fed and is unlikely to know or understand or care about the Second Amendment. His "opinion" is being slammed across the interwebs and I expect many non-OC'ers are learning much from reading the comments to his post and on other Forums and sites and FB, where it has been referenced. He is being widely criticized.
There is profit to be had from bondage.
Liberty is costly.
We have work to do if we will remain free.
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