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Thread: Open carry is NOT legal at Walmart!

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    Open carry is NOT legal at Walmart!

    I was standing in line at Walmart tonight (of course I picked the slowest line with the slowest checker just like always) and saw a guy walk by with a pistol OWB in what looked like a Serpa holster. If you're on here I would just like to remind you that open carrying in any store that sells alcohol is a felony in the state.

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    As you said, not legal where alcohol sold. Not all walmarts sell alcohol. Which one was it?

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    Both Wallymarts in LC Sell Alcohol

    Believe castiel is in Las Cruces, no? Open carry would be illegal in both LC WMs.

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    Yeah both Walmarts in Cruces sell alcohol. It was at the one on Valley around 9pm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by castiel View Post
    Yeah both Walmarts in Cruces sell alcohol. It was at the one on Valley around 9pm.
    Oh OK, I wasn't sure if you were in Cruces when it happened.

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    There are a lot of people who don't know any better.

    In almost every class, one of my students open carries, but wasn't aware that liquor establishments are off limits to OC or unlicensed unloaded concealed carry.

    Worse, there are a few guys who read the law and interpreted it their own way and think 'dispense' in 30-7-3 means it only applies to bars.

    In the past, LCPD would escort an open carrier out and ask them to either leave or put their gun in the car, and only arrest if it was somebody they've encountered before.

    But with the new chief, I've seen them go after open carriers with rifles and they detained that man in the downtown mall for over an hour for OC. I doubt OC in liquor establishments will be treated as kindly as it has been in the past.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PracticalTactical View Post
    There are a lot of people who don't know any better.

    In almost every class, one of my students open carries, but wasn't aware that liquor establishments are off limits to OC or unlicensed unloaded concealed carry.

    Worse, there are a few guys who read the law and interpreted it their own way and think 'dispense' in 30-7-3 means it only applies to bars.

    In the past, LCPD would escort an open carrier out and ask them to either leave or put their gun in the car, and only arrest if it was somebody they've encountered before.

    But with the new chief, I've seen them go after open carriers with rifles and they detained that man in the downtown mall for over an hour for OC. I doubt OC in liquor establishments will be treated as kindly as it has been in the past.
    Is it legal for them to detain a person who open carries a rifle?
    Im aware of the Handgun open carry inside of establishments that sell alcohol, but im not sure of the rifle issue.
    Looks like we need a little activist get together. Im game, have guns/will travel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MR Redenck View Post
    Is it legal for them to detain a person who open carries a rifle?
    Im aware of the Handgun open carry inside of establishments that sell alcohol, but im not sure of the rifle issue.
    Looks like we need a little activist get together. Im game, have guns/will travel.
    By "go after open carriers with rifles" I mean the police have rifles and search a store, aisle by aisle, for somebody who had a pistol after they get a paranoid MWAG call from some California move-in.

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    thanks NM, everytime i get PO'ed at NC laws someone comes along and shows me how bad it is somewhere else.

    here it not allowed to go into an establishment where sells and consumes alcoholic beverages. don't know why, if i don't drink, what difference would it make

    why in the world does it make a difference weather or not they sell beer. can you drink it on premise?
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    the purpose of this law is a Booby Trap. What reasonable person would think it's illegal to Open Carry in a place that sells a 6 pack of beer? Who would even think of it?

    Maybe it should be a Felony to Fart within 1000 feet of a Church every 2nd Tuesday of the month, too? It makes about as much sense and is just as likely for a rational person to think of...

    It is a willfully malicious law created by anti-gun politicians as a way to criminalize their opposition and remove them from the voting pool with a Felony status.

    Common-sense would be a lot more common if there weren't so many laws forbidding it.
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    While this thread is in the NM section, it would be good if the topic title was changed to "Open carry is NOT legal at Walmart IN NEW MEXICO"

    Lots of visitors and even regular participants just select "new posts" and don't notice which category they fall in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by castiel View Post
    I was standing in line at Walmart tonight (of course I picked the slowest line with the slowest checker just like always) and saw a guy walk by with a pistol OWB in what looked like a Serpa holster. If you're on here I would just like to remind you that open carrying in any store that sells alcohol is a felony in the state.
    I suppose its a moot point at this time, but...

    Is there a chance you approched the individual and politely corrected him in regard to this issue? Something like, "Hey I like your Glock. I myself prefer the springfield XD. I wished more people carried open. But just so you know in the future, carrying openly here is a crime and you might not want to risk it."

    I would have appreciated someone having this conversation with me while I was down there and uninformed about this particular quark in the law.

    I'll be back down soon. See you sometime in the future.

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    Edited...found it!

    That is one stupid law. CCW and open should have equivalent statutes (e.g. none).

    Thanks!
    Last edited by aggieoultaw; 06-11-2011 at 05:40 PM. Reason: found the law...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aggieoultaw View Post
    Howdy all,

    I'm new to OC and New Mexico...Being from TX, I'm glad NM allows open carry for those that wish to do so.

    My understanding from my brief review of the NM gun statutes is that you cannot carry on the premises of an establishment which sells alcohol for consumption on said premises. Can someone clarify this for me or point me to the statute that says carrying in Walmart is illegal? I am having a difficult time believing this.

    Thanks!
    Everything is right on the NM DPS CCW site. There is a link to a pdf file of the new statute.

    http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement/ccw/index.php

    It's not that carrying in Walmart itself is illegal, it's the fact that many of them sell alcohol. So, no OC at all- only CC with a permit, just as any other store which sells for off-site consumption. Also CC only for on-site as you mentioned, in beer and wine establishments only- no places serving hard liquor.

    WRT alcohol sales- call ahead to see if any place you may want to visit sells/serves alcohol. And- when in doubt, stay out.
    Last edited by AH.74; 06-11-2011 at 05:49 PM.

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    One more example of an odd law that makes no sense & needs to be removed.
    If I'm not drinking, only shopping in a store that happens to sell ETOH, what does it matter whether I'm carrying openly or concealed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by castiel View Post
    I was standing in line at Walmart tonight (of course I picked the slowest line with the slowest checker just like always) and saw a guy walk by with a pistol OWB in what looked like a Serpa holster. If you're on here I would just like to remind you that open carrying in any store that sells alcohol is a felony in the state.
    "30-7-3. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF A FIREARM IN LICENSED
    LIQUOR ESTABLISHMENTS.--
    A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an
    establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages
    consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any
    premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department
    for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:...."

    My read of the law would not INCLUDE Walmart/Target since they are NOT DISPENSING ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES.... some stores may SELL alcohol but they don't dispense cause they don't pour!

    So, since they dont' Dispense the law requiring CONCEALMENT in a restaurant that dispenses beer or wine doesn't apply. (Walmart/Target are NOT restaurants.)

    So, it would seem to me that OPEN CARRYING in Walmart/Target EVEN in NEW MEXICO would be legal!
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 06-12-2011 at 02:33 PM. Reason: to expand my reply

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    "30-7-3. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF A FIREARM IN LICENSED
    LIQUOR ESTABLISHMENTS.--
    A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an
    establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages
    consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any
    premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department
    for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:...."

    My read of the law would not INCLUDE Walmart/Target since they are NOT DISPENSING ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES.... some stores may SELL alcohol but they don't dispense cause they don't pour!

    So, since they dont' Dispense the law requiring CONCEALMENT in a restaurant that dispenses beer or wine doesn't apply. (Walmart/Target are NOT restaurants.)

    So, it would seem to me that OPEN CARRYING in Walmart/Target EVEN in NEW MEXICO would be legal!
    PracticalTactical researched this exact issue for us, here are his findings:


    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(H): “dispenser” means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person’s possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises

    So, in the Liquor Control Act, a dispenser is defined as both a seller for consumption on the premises and a seller for off-premises consumption. Wal-Mart, Sam’s Club, Albertson’s, Pic-Quik–all of them are included in 30-7-3, and are therefore off limits to unlicensed or open carry.


    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(M): “licensed premises” means the contiguous areas or areas connected by indoor passageways of a structure and the outside dining, recreation and lounge areas of the structure and the grounds and vineyards of a structure that is a winery that are under the direct control of the licensee and from which the licensee is authorized to sell, serve or allow the consumption of alcoholic beverages under the provisions of its license; provided that in the case of a restaurant … “licensed premises” includes all public and private rooms, facilities and areas in which alcoholic beverages are sold or served in the customary operating procedures of the restaurant, hotel, golf course or racetrack;

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post

    My read of the law would not INCLUDE Walmart/Target since they are NOT DISPENSING ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES.... some stores may SELL alcohol but they don't dispense cause they don't pour!

    So, since they dont' Dispense the law requiring CONCEALMENT in a restaurant that dispenses beer or wine doesn't apply. (Walmart/Target are NOT restaurants.)

    So, it would seem to me that OPEN CARRYING in Walmart/Target EVEN in NEW MEXICO would be legal!
    You've got to be much more thorough and careful than that, because as pointed out above you would be very wrong and guilty of a felony under the construction of that law.

    Dispense = sell for these purposes. And that goes for ANY place that sells. Gas stations, convenience stores, liquor stores etc.

    The way the law is written, it's pretty clear that they are making a distinction between stores that sell and places that serve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    One more example of an odd law that makes no sense & needs to be removed.
    If I'm not drinking, only shopping in a store that happens to sell ETOH, what does it matter whether I'm carrying openly or concealed?
    This is a new law and was put into effect just last July. It's a lot better than not being able to carry at all into any place that serves or sells, which was the case prior.

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    true

    I found that one out the hard way (almost)... only 2 walmarts in Albuquerque don't sell liquor and those ones you can open carry in, as long as they don't have signs posted otherwise.

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    I never knew Wal-Mart or anyone else who was licensed to sell alcohol was off limits to OC.


    NMSA 30-7-3(A)(4)(a), which states (summarily):

    A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:

    (4). by a [duly licensed] person carrying a concealed handgun...on the premises of:

    (a). a licensed establishment that does not sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises...

    So, as long as I am in possession of my valid CCW license, I can carry concealed into Wal-Mart, Albertsons, Walgreens, Pic Quik, etc.


    Furthermore, NMSA 30-7-3(A)(4)(b), which states (summarily):

    A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:

    (4). by a [duly licensed] person carrying a concealed handgun...on the premises of:

    (b). a restaurant licensed to sell only beer and wine that derives no less than sixty percent of its annual gross receipts from the sale of food for consumption on the premises...

    So, that pretty much includes (??) Applebee's, Chili's, Olive Garden, etc. because I'm more than certain that they make at least 60% of their AGR from food sales (unless, of course, they post "conspicuous" signs at all public entrances, or verbally inform you, stating no firearms are allowed).

    This would EXCLUDE (I'm sure) places like: High Desert Brewery, Jose Murphy's, etc. Obviously, bars are out of the question.

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    Master Bratac- you can't make assumptions about the restaurants. Applebee's and Chili locations often have bars in them. Olive Garden may serve liquor, I'm not sure about that. But the point is, you need to err on the side of safety just in case.

    Here is a link to more information. Included on this page is a link to the NM Regulation and Licensing Dept and instructions on how to use it, to search for types of licensed establishments.

    http://www.nm-ccw.com/Beer&Wine.html

    As I am fond of saying- when in doubt, STAY OUT. Call the place ahead of time or even from their parking lot to make sure, before you go inside.

    The point is- be careful.

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    This contradict itself...

    I am from CO, here in NM at this time visiting family. Read this because fellow OCer's in CO have had problems at Wal Marts there. Corporate Wal-Mart says depending on the laws of the state and city the store is in dictate the gun control. I see that in NM "restaurant carry" (restaurants that serve alcohol) IS LEGAL. This being true, how is it illegal to open carry at an establishment this has alcohol sold for consumption off of it's premise? Also, in CO I have personally never had any problems in Wal-Mart or and store of the such that sells alcohol for consumption OFF premise. Likewise, I have also OCed at Texas Roadhouse, establishment that liquor beer wine etc. And no problems again there.
    Last edited by kylerossi; 09-02-2011 at 10:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kylerossi View Post
    I am from CO, here in NM at this time visiting family. Read this because fellow OCer's in CO have had problems at Wal Marts there. Corporate Wal-Mart says depending on the laws of the state and city the store is in dictate the gun control. I see that in NM "restaurant carry" (restaurants that serve alcohol) IS LEGAL. This being true, how is it illegal to open carry at an establishment this has alcohol sold for consumption off of it's premise? Also, in CO I have personally never had any problems in Wal-Mart or and store of the such that sells alcohol for consumption OFF premise. Likewise, I have also OCed at Texas Roadhouse, establishment that liquor beer wine etc. And no problems again there.
    It's illegal because it says so in the law. In short:
    No open carry allowed in any place that sells any type of alcohol
    Concealed carry is allowed in places that sell alcohol for consumption offsite
    Concealed carry is allowed in restaurants that sell only beer and wine (no hard liquor).

    The full text of the laws:

    30-7-3. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in licensed liquor establishments.
    A. Unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages consists of carrying a loaded or unloaded firearm on any premises licensed by the regulation and licensing department for the dispensing of alcoholic beverages except:
    (1) by a law enforcement officer in the lawful discharge of the officer's duties;
    (2) by a law enforcement officer who is certified pursuant to the Law Enforcement Training Act [29-7-1 NMSA 1978] acting in accordance with the policies of the officer's law enforcement agency;
    (3) by the owner, lessee, tenant or operator of the licensed premises or the owner's, lessee's, tenant's or operator's agents, including privately employed security personnel during the performance of their duties;
    (4) by a person carrying a concealed handgun who is in possession of a valid concealed handgun license for that gun pursuant to the Concealed Handgun Carry Act [29-19-1 NMSA 1978] on the premises of:
    (a) a licensed establishment that does not sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises; or
    (b) a restaurant licensed to sell only beer and wine that derives no less than sixty percent of its annual gross receipts from the sale of food for consumption on the premises, unless the restaurant has a sign posted, in a conspicuous location at each public entrance, prohibiting the carrying of firearms, or the person is verbally instructed by the owner or manager that the carrying of a firearm is not permitted in the restaurant;
    (5) by a person in that area of the licensed premises usually and primarily rented on a daily or short-term basis for sleeping or residential occupancy, including hotel or motel rooms;
    (6) by a person on that area of a licensed premises primarily used for vehicular traffic or parking; or
    (7) for the purpose of temporary display, provided that the firearm is:
    (a) made completely inoperative before it is carried onto the licensed premises and remains inoperative while it is on the licensed premises; and
    (b) under the control of the licensee or an agent of the licensee while the firearm is on the licensed premises.
    B. Whoever commits unlawful carrying of a firearm in an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

    And also:

    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(H): “dispenser” means a person licensed under the provisions of the Liquor Control Act selling, offering for sale or having in the person’s possession with the intent to sell alcoholic beverages both by the drink for consumption on the licensed premises and in unbroken packages for consumption and not for resale off the licensed premises


    NMSA 1978 60-3A-3(M): “licensed premises” means the contiguous areas or areas connected by indoor passageways of a structure and the outside dining, recreation and lounge areas of the structure and the grounds and vineyards of a structure that is a winery that are under the direct control of the licensee and from which the licensee is authorized to sell, serve or allow the consumption of alcoholic beverages under the provisions of its license; provided that in the case of a restaurant … “licensed premises” includes all public and private rooms, facilities and areas in which alcoholic beverages are sold or served in the customary operating procedures of the restaurant, hotel, golf course or racetrack;
    Last edited by castiel; 09-03-2011 at 12:38 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by kylerossi View Post
    I see that in NM "restaurant carry" (restaurants that serve alcohol) IS LEGAL. This being true, how is it illegal to open carry at an establishment this has alcohol sold for consumption off of it's premise?
    Because until last year, it was not just illegal, but a felony to carry at all, open or concealed, anywhere alcohol was sold. They made no distinction between on- or off-premises consumption.

    They amended the law, but only for licensed concealed carry.

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