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If I answer zero to these questions should I carry?

peter nap

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It has been my experience that the VAST majority of people who are anti-2A are living in such complete denial of the dangers of the world, and in such blind nanny-state dependence on the non-existent promise of "rescue" by "authorities", that most of them don't have fire extinguishers in their kitchen either it doesn't hold much water, because they actually believe that the Fire Department is there to protect them from fires, just like they believe that the police will protect them from BGs...

In other words, we may want to try a different metaphor, because it has been my experience that MOST of the sorts of folks who are vocally against OC (and CC) are so clueless about their personal safety that they don't even own a fire extinguisher...

If you come up with one that works Dreamer, please post it....Because

It isn't only the anti's that are living in nanny state dreamworld. Lots of supposedly pro gun people talk the talk but don't believe in the fire extinguisher because they know the Government will be there to wipe their nose.
 

ed

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Oh, you're just one of those, "fire-extinguisher" nuts! You're just doing that to protect some abstract "right to bear fire-extinguishers!". We all know you secretly hope your house will catch fire, just so you can whip out your fire-extinguisher! We pray that no child gets ahold of your fire-extinguisher and whaps another child upside the head with it. Or, worse yet, decides to take it to school with him! And what if there really were a fire, why don't you just depend on the fire department, like any sensible person would?
Ok.. that does it. I bet he's not a REAL lawyer.
 

papa bear

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welcome G-fourteen.

if you have such doubts about carrying, maybe you shouldn't. you seem to not have the confidence to handle it. it's a big responsibility. maybe you should think on it some more.

btw, what is your response to those questions?
 

tcmech

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One night a long time ago when I lived in the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia, I was stationed at NAS North Island, and I had someone try to break into my rented townhouse in Imperial Beach. I picked up my Ruger P89 and chambered a round. My window was open and the person trying to break in heard me, and ran away, (I heard them run away and saw their shadow as they turned the corner of the building). I think that should qualify as having defended myself, and more importantly my family with a gun.

I guess for question number one I would say "Me".
 

2a4all

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Jul 1, 2008
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Newport News, Virginia, USA
A Friend of mine(Who is an english major) wrote me after I told her I open carry. Tonia wrote: "I realize you have a right to bear arms, but just a few questions: 1 - How many people (outside of the military and law enforcement) do you know personally, that have successfully defended themselves with a gun. 2 - How many people do you know have been subject to a violent attack, and could have successfully defended themselves had they owned a gun? (mind you, the gun has to be within reach to be successful). And 3 - How many people do/did you know that have been seriously injured/killed by a gunshot?"

I know the answer to her questions 1 and 3 for me personally would be zero. Could someone help me here? How should I respond? I don't want to feel like I have no reason to carry when I know how I feel but can't convey it. Any help would be appreciated thanks.
1 - How many people do you know personally, that have successfully defended their homes from a fire with a fire extinguisher?

If she were asking that question, you could say that you know me. No one ever dreamed that when my father placed that old soda-acid extinguisher at the head of the stairs leading to the 2nd floor that it would be put to use fighting a fire burning in the rafters of the basement. That was 50 years ago (I was 17), and I have not needed one since, but I have one handy....

BTW, I did call the FD, but after I put out the fire. I had to use the neighbor's phone because the fire burned the phone lines in my house. IIRC, it took me less time to put out the fire than took them to arrive.
 

scouser

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804, VA
Dreamer said:
In other words, we may want to try a different metaphor, because it has been my experience that MOST of the sorts of folks who are vocally against OC (and CC) are so clueless about their personal safety that they don't even own a fire extinguisher...

How about the seat belt one instead then. How many times have you been in a crash ? .. oh wait ... their heads are probably stuck so far up their ***** that they crash all the time because they can't see what's going on around them, so the seat belt DOES become a necessity for them
 

skidmark

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Scouser, I don't think the seatbelt one is going to fly. Mostly because Big Nanny says you have to use it.

How about getting shots to immunize against diseases? I am old enough to remember when polio (infantile paralysis) was as common as the common cold. Do folks even get polio shots any more? Or what about the (fairly) new vaccine against shingles? Measles and chickenpox are still fairly common and many folks have such a mild case that it may not really be noticed, but just wait 20 or 30 years with the virus dormant until it awakens as shingles! BTDT and did not enjoy it one little bit. There's a way to just about absolutely guarantee it will never happen again. You bet I got stabbed in the arm as soon as I could.

But the shot is not just for folks who have already had an attack, just like carrying a handgun is not just for folks who have already been mugged/raped/robbed/assaulted/etc.

Might have to work on the specifics of the concept, but this one might work.

stay safe.
 

Blk97F150

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Dec 21, 2010
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Virginia
The questions are argumentative distractions and not to the point.

The point being the "once is enough." We do not expect to need protection, but rather chose to have the option so that if and when we are not the tailor made victim.

Actually, I could list several in each category, but they are not pertinent. I cannot affect an outcome that has already occurred. My concern is not yesterday, but today - here and now.

Perfectly stated!
 

Red Dawg

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Eastern VA, with too many people
Well, here's one. I carry a seat belt cutter in every vehicle I own/ride. I needed one for a rollover accident, and all I had was a pocket knife, was sharp, but the wrong tool for the job. Now that I have them, I never use it, except to open bags of peanuts and such driving down the road...I carry a bunch of wrenches that don't fit any nuts on my vehicles too, just in case they are needed. We carry many tools we don't need today, right now, but when we want them, or need them, they are there.
 

user

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...It has been my experience that the VAST majority of people who are strongly anti-2A are living in such complete denial of the dangers of the world, and in such blind nanny-state dependence on the non-existent promise of "rescue" by "authorities", that most of them don't have fire extinguishers in their kitchen either...

You gotta understand the level of abject cluelessness and ostrich-like denial under which these people function.

Although the "fire extinguisher" metaphor is a VERY illustrative one, I think that with most anti-2A people it doesn't hold much water, because they actually believe that the Fire Department is there to protect them from fires, just like they believe that the police will protect them from BGs.....

Agree completely. I took the Fam to the Disney Cultural Re-education Center in Florida over the period that included September 11, 2001. As a foreigner in that system of thought, I took the opportunity to act like a tourist, an objective third party observer. I felt like an anthropologist studying a primitive culture. The most important thing I learned about while I was there was the principle you articulate so well, Dreamer. I call it "living in the Magic Kingdom". In Hinduism, the principle called, "Maya", is related - it's the deception built into the way people are that causes them to believe that the model of the Universe they've created in their heads on the basis of conventional sensory perception is the true and real world. Some folks call it, "romantic idealism". Even of those who have some glimmer of the truth, most choose to ignore it, preferring the world of their own making.

I met a guy at a VCDL after-meeting social time at a restaurant in Fairfax County. He has a religious perspective that he calls, "Biblical Christianity". That system, as he described it, has almost nothing to do with the theological tradition that the Roman church and its derivatives promote. I suspect they'd say he's a "heretic". In talking, we agreed that Jesus never said, "worship me", he said, "follow me". And taught that there is exactly one right way to live, though he didn't tie that to participation in any religion. And he said that in order to perceive that way correctly, one has to die and be reborn. I take that to be the only antithesis to "living in the Magic Kingdom", which is a system of self-absorption, self-worship, and self-indulgence. Unless a person is willing to "die to self", he is unable to shift his perspective such that he will understand the illusion that Maya (or, "Satan") represents.

Only by being aware of the external self-existent reality ("I am that I am.") and being willing to conform one's self to that reality, instead of making up one's own universe and pretending that it is truth, can a person be aware of, and prepare for, external threats and dangers. People who cannot do so are slated for culling from the herd. ("For every tree which does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.")

The religious people came up to Jesus and asked for him to do some magic tricks to prove he's The Guy. He said, "I tell you the truth, this world of men demands a sign; but no sign shall be given except the sign of Jonah." A very cryptic statement, which I take to refer not to Jonah but to the Ninevites. Jonah was forced to go to the Ninevites in the guts of a big fish with a message. So he gets washed up on shore, a putrid foreigner stinking of fish-guts, and tells the Ninevites, "God told me to tell you, you've been a bunch of evil bastards; and if you don't straighten up right quick, he's going to level your city, and you in it." The Ninevites (1) heard the truth, regardless of the source; (2) recognized it for what it was; and (3) acted on it immediately.

The dividing line between the sheep and the goats isn't on the basis of religious labels or affiliations. What some people call, "the Holy Spirit", other people call, "gut instinct", "intuition", or "psychic awareness". Point is, it doesn't matter what you call it, and it don't care what you call it. Those who have the awareness sufficient to be able to recognize the truth when they see it will be "saved". Those who do not, or will not, will be de-selected. It's not that some folks are slated for eternal punishment - it's more like wilting away, a "failure to thrive".

So I am convinced there is nothing that can be done to persuade people living in Hell that they can and should embrace a system of self-defense. They hate the gun thing precisely because it calls the premise of the Magic Kingdom into question, and therefore represents a threat to their own sense of self. Like that old "New Christy Minstrels" song, "Don't let the rain come down; my roof's got a hole in it and I might drown."
 

SouthernBoy

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All three are personal questions that many if not most that would fall under 1-3 won't answer, or at least in a public forum. A few close friends may know but not the general public.

Ask her if she's ever had fantasies of sex with her father or had an abortion or a lesbian relationship. I expect you'll get a "Mind your own Business" answer.

Carry if you feel the need or just if you want to, but don't base it on the crosses others have to bear. It's not an academic game.

Another great answer.
 

wylde007

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Joined
Jan 23, 2009
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Va Beach, Occupied VA
We often use the "fire extinguisher in your house" argument in an attempt to strengthen people's understanding of why we carry. But it has been my experience that this argument ONLY makes sense to people who are already on our side, or at the very least, are sympathetic with our ideas of self-sufficiency and knowledge that "emergency responders" are REALLY just there to string the "caution tape" and take statements AFTER the SHTF...
I will make a cautious "second" to this statement as the very last time I tried to explain carrying to what I can only describe as a "concerned citizen" I used the fire extinguisher analogy.

I was carrying at Red Wing Park in VB for the annual Cherry Blossom Festival and an elderly woman asked, yadda-yadda... long story short she was still shaking her head saying "Well, it's a shame you feel like you have to carry one."

Yes, it is indeed a shame that I feel the need to defend myself and my family, but that's the reality of the world we live in. And since I have no control over anyone other than myself and certainly not of human-nature in-and-of itself, I carry.
Scouser, I don't think the seatbelt one is going to fly. Mostly because Big Nanny says you have to use it.
Big nanny also says you are supposed to have a license, plates and inspection, but you see plenty without those around. It's only illegal if you get caught.

I know literally dozens of motorcyclists who do not have the "M" endorsement. They just don't care.
Measles and chickenpox are still fairly common and many folks have such a mild case that it may not really be noticed, but just wait 20 or 30 years with the virus dormant until it awakens as shingles!
Allow me to chorus Skid here - Shingles is NO FUN.

I got it a few years back (yes, in my early thirties) and it hurt - not just a little hurt but crippling agony - every time I took a deep breath. That is no lie.

However, compulsory vaccinations, just like everything else mandated by government, as a means to "public safety" is a direct violation of my natural right to NOT be told what I can and cannot do.

Government excels at telling people what to do and giving the excuse "Because I said so".
 

Grapeshot

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Only by being aware of the external self-existent reality ("I am that I am.") and being willing to conform one's self to that reality, instead of making up one's own universe and pretending that it is truth, can a person be aware of, and prepare for, external threats and dangers. People who cannot do so are slated for culling from the herd. ("For every tree which does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.")


The dividing line between the sheep and the goats isn't on the basis of religious labels or affiliations. What some people call, "the Holy Spirit", other people call, "gut instinct", "intuition", or "psychic awareness". Point is, it doesn't matter what you call it, and it don't care what you call it. Those who have the awareness sufficient to be able to recognize the truth when they see it will be "saved". Those who do not, or will not, will be de-selected. It's not that some folks are slated for eternal punishment - it's more like wilting away, a "failure to thrive".

"


Existentialism
 

Ric in Richmond

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She have home insurance? Wear a seatbelt? Own a fire extinguisher?

Simply say....you choose to believe we live in the land of honey and lollipops and that nothing bad will ever come to get you....me I am a realist...there are those that will do evil to you given the opportunity and you won't be able to run, talk or fight your way out of it.

I realize the odds are very unlikely, just like a car crash or a house fire....and if I am around when it happens to you I promise not to defend you in order to respect your decisions.

Me? I'll be fine.
 

Aknazer

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If you come up with one that works Dreamer, please post it....Because

It isn't only the anti's that are living in nanny state dreamworld. Lots of supposedly pro gun people talk the talk but don't believe in the fire extinguisher because they know the Government will be there to wipe their nose.

Seatbelts and accidents would probably be better as almost everyone wears it and there's no service to protect people from accidents. You can also use it to illustrate how one would try to avoid an accident/crime but yet it can still happen unexpectedly.
 

Marco

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A Friend of mine(Who is an english major) wrote me after I told her I open carry. Tonia wrote: "I realize you have a right to bear arms, but just a few questions: 1 - How many people (outside of the military and law enforcement) do you know personally, that have successfully defended themselves with a gun. 2 - How many people do you know have been subject to a violent attack, and could have successfully defended themselves had they owned a gun? (mind you, the gun has to be within reach to be successful). And 3 - How many people do/did you know that have been seriously injured/killed by a gunshot?"

I know the answer to her questions 1 and 3 for me personally would be zero. Could someone help me here? How should I respond? I don't want to feel like I have no reason to carry when I know how I feel but can't convey it. Any help would be appreciated thanks.



Does she have pets?
If so, ask.
Do you vaccinate you pets?
How many pets have you lost to rabies?
How many rabid animals found in your area, in one yr?
Have you ever come face to face with a rabid animal?

Yet you still vaccinate your pets?
Why?




The questions are argumentative distractions and not to the point.

The point being the "once is enough." We do not expect to need protection, but rather chose to have the option so that if and when we are not the tailor made victim.

Actually, I could list several in each category, but they are not pertinent. I cannot affect an outcome that has already occurred. My concern is not yesterday, but today - here and now.

1+

Seatbelts and accidents would probably be better
Not really as people are forced to wear them because of the nanny state.
 

wylde007

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Have you ever come face to face with a rabid animal?
In that instance I would also want access to a firearm.
Yet you still vaccinate your pets?
Why?
Another nanny-state requirement. Many jurisdictions require it in order to get a "pet license" - you know, that thing which "allows" you to keep a domestic animal for companionship. Little fee so just in case it gets out they won't put it to sleep immediately.

And send you the bill.
 
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