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Thread: Looking for the experiences of others

  1. #1
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    Looking for the experiences of others

    Well, over the last 8 months, my life has changed quite a bit. I got married, I am in almost at the end of the process of adopting the child I have called my son for 4 years, I have changed jobs, and then was wrongfully terminated from the new job less than a month after I was married. So, at the moment, I live with my wifes parents. Not the most fun in the world, but her mother is not only very anti OC, she is anti gun in general. Its to the point where I am not permitted to OC or CC at the house if she is home (And you all thought that the STATE laws were bad). And Even when she isn't home, she will randomly stop back home during the day "just to say hi" or as I like to call it, My semi daily weapon shakedown. Even if I am leaving the house to go shopping or to pick my beautiful wife and son up a coffee and a chocolate milk, I almost half to smuggle it out of the house. My wife and father in law are both very pro gun and pro CC and OC, but it seems my wifes mother rules the roost. Anywho, I am just curious as to what issues and/or experiences all you OCers out there have had with friends or family.

  2. #2
    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    This is what I used to shut the mouths of both my anti sisters:
    911 Police Immunity
    Warren v. District of Columbia (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

    DC's highest court ruled:
    That the police do not have a legal responsibility to provide personal protection to individuals, and absolved the police and the city of any liability.

    Decision:
    By a 4-3 decision: The court held that official police personnel and the government employing them are not generally liable to victims of criminal acts for a failure to provide adequate police protection.

    This is an excerpt of the case. Have them look up the full case file and read what the girls went through...IN THEIR DORM ROOMS!

    There is no "safe" haven from crime.

    You may also try the "mother-in-law in trunk" sticker...kidding of course.

  3. #3
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrome_coyote View Post
    So, at the moment, I live with my wifes parents. . . .
    I don't give a damn if I have to live on PB&J, Ramen noodles, and Kool-aid or water . . . give up cable and go to rabbit ears . . . go without air conditioning and go to bed early to keep the lights off and electricity bill low . . . but I will never, EVER not have my own roof over my own head. I love my family, but I'm too independent-minded to not have a job that at least pays enough peanuts for rent or a house payment, and a little bit of "rainy day" funds always set aside for periods of unemployment. Dude, pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get the hell out of there!
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    I don't give a damn if I have to live on PB&J, Ramen noodles, and Kool-aid or water . . . give up cable and go to rabbit ears . . . go without air conditioning and go to bed early to keep the lights off and electricity bill low . . . but I will never, EVER not have my own roof over my own head. I love my family, but I'm too independent-minded to not have a job that at least pays enough peanuts for rent or a house payment, and a little bit of "rainy day" funds always set aside for periods of unemployment. Dude, pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get the hell out of there!
    Dan... I know you mean well however no matter how independent minded a person is, and I am such a person, at any time from out of nowhere a life changing event of such epic proportions can happen... and wipe out everything right down to your underwear.

    Sometimes not only was it impossible to see it coming but no amount of preparation will stop it from completely wiping out a person's possessions and money saved..... and it also can cause a person to have to rely on the charity of others just to have food. In fact it could leave a person with the only option of begging for the charity of others..... even if only temporarily.

    Hitting a bottom so far down and so concrete hard such as the kind that wipes a person out isn't anything I'd wish on anyone.

    But it can happen to any of us at any time.....

    Oh... and to Chrome_coyote..... I'm sure you already understand this but I'll mention it anyway but not in a snarky or mean spirited way... just stating a fact...

    When so far down on your luck that you must rely on the good will of whoever took you into their home..... while you are there it is... their house, their rules, and it is what it is until you can move on.
    Last edited by Bikenut; 06-02-2011 at 09:24 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  5. #5
    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    pick your battles
    my parents - NO OC, CC - i don't even bring it up. they know i have a CPL and am usually CC when i am out with them i just don't broadcast it. if i CC my mother would not want anything to do with it. to keep the peace i just let it slide (also trying to stay in a sizeable will)
    my sister and husband don't mind at all - they are getting their CPL's in livingston county and want to OC as well. kids don't mind. they have some politically left wing anti-gun neighbors they tell me best not to show around them so i put it away if they come over.
    my brother and his wife - NO WAY. my sister in law anti-gun. don't bring it in my house blah blah. don't have to tell you who runs that house. she voted obama and got him to as well. my chunk of the will almost got bigger.
    my work - no weapons even in the parking lot. i'm the town crier of OC and several come up to me and ask. if there is an attack involving a weapon at my work i'm sure it will be a former or current disgruntled employee and a NO WEAPONS sign won't mean anything to them. it just effectiviely disarms anybody in there from defending themselves.
    like i said - pick your battles

  6. #6
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO!
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  7. #7
    Regular Member Orion's Avatar
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    My sister, for whatever reason doesn't even like to see a gun. Not sure why since we were raised in a family that always had guns in the house. She doesn't like it that I wear in the house, but since it is my house she respects my choice. And in return I lock it up in my truck when I go over there to visit.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    First of all, best of luck in straightening your life out. That really sucks.

    Second, it sounds like you're a CPL holder, and as such I suggest you concealed carry using an AIWB rig. Gotta be careful not to blow your junk off, which is why I carry unchambered when carrying that way, but it's the deepest concealment method possible without resorting to off body carry. Unless she's grabbing you by the groin, she'll never know.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Well, I had guns over baseball or football growing up. So you would think that Mom would have the smallest reaction. Boy was I wrong.

    My Wife gave me the impression that I am having a midlife issue. MIL ... well, nothing....

    I have a grad party coming up. If the former SIL comes with that con. You bet I will.
    Last edited by AAMitch; 06-02-2011 at 11:43 PM.

  10. #10
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    Show your wife and kid that you can stand up for what you believe in. Mom might rule the roost, but Id bet if you stood your ground, your wife would keep mom from tossing you out. If not, you have gained the respect of your wife.

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    When you do move, go far enough away that the Bi*** cant see her daughter anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    I don't give a damn if I have to live on PB&J, Ramen noodles, and Kool-aid or water . . . give up cable and go to rabbit ears . . . go without air conditioning and go to bed early to keep the lights off and electricity bill low . . . but I will never, EVER not have my own roof over my own head. I love my family, but I'm too independent-minded to not have a job that at least pays enough peanuts for rent or a house payment, and a little bit of "rainy day" funds always set aside for periods of unemployment. Dude, pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get the hell out of there!
    Well, In this case, I don't have much choice. I can't go into too much detail since the EEOC is involved, but not having a job right now is not my choice, nor is it my fault. I have a long list of skills, certifications, training, etc... but right now, as we all know, the job market is a tough place. I have had some many interviews, its sad. I even applied at McDonalds, Burger King, etc... simply because I hate not having a job. They told me I was overqualified. Its not a matter of picking myself up. Its a matter of trying to find an employer that will hire me, but even then, the pay has to be more than the unemployment I get so I can still pay for my vehicle, buy food, make sure my wife and son have what they need to survive, and pay for my medication every month, which is over 250 a month. When you go from making a good deal to making nothing, your "rainy day" fund goes pretty fast. My previous employer cashed the check for Cobra, but never submitted the paperwork, so I am uninsured, which means every doctor visit, every EEG, and the multitude of other tests I have to go through are all in cash out of my funds. That has been over 10 grand already. Sometimes its not about the bootstraps, but about loosening the weights someone else tied you up with.
    Last edited by Chrome_coyote; 06-02-2011 at 11:54 PM. Reason: spelling error that made me look dumb!

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    When my x and I began, we stayed at a boat launch living out of our car. Within a few weeks, we were living at a Lions Club owned beach campground for 15$ a week, which I payed for by doing maintenance, and cutting the grass. We had water, electricity, and enough of an address to keep the southern police away from us. It was tough, but I wouldnt have done it differently. Me, my new girlfriend, living on a South Carolina beach in the summer.

  14. #14
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut
    Quote Originally Posted by DanM
    I don't give a damn if I have to live on PB&J, Ramen noodles, and Kool-aid or water . . . give up cable and go to rabbit ears . . . go without air conditioning and go to bed early to keep the lights off and electricity bill low . . . but I will never, EVER not have my own roof over my own head. I love my family, but I'm too independent-minded to not have a job that at least pays enough peanuts for rent or a house payment, and a little bit of "rainy day" funds always set aside for periods of unemployment. Dude, pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get the hell out of there!
    Dan... I know you mean well however no matter how independent minded a person is, and I am such a person, at any time from out of nowhere a life changing event of such epic proportions can happen... and wipe out everything right down to your underwear.
    Been there. Done that. My simple point is that anyone with an able body and an able mind can keep at least a roof over their head. Is it easy? No. Do you have to hustle? Yes. If you have a job right now, do you still need to watch how you spend and constantly save? Yes. Is it hard? No. While you're in a decent job, is it hard to save a hell of a lot of money and have a hell of a rainy day fund to fall back on, just in case? No. Do you have to be disciplined? Yes. Do you have to want to be disciplined more than you want the possibility of falling on hard luck and having to move in with someone? Yes.

    It's all about choices, and the choices don't take a rocket scientist to figure out nor the discipline of a drill sergeant to adhere to.

    Like I said, been there, done that, and I made the choice to be prepared and hustle versus having to face the possibility of moving in under someone else's roof.
    Last edited by DanM; 06-03-2011 at 01:01 AM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  15. #15
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrome_coyote
    Well, In this case, I don't have much choice. I can't go into too much detail since the EEOC is involved, but not having a job right now is not my choice, nor is it my fault. I have a long list of skills, certifications, training, etc... but right now, as we all know, the job market is a tough place. I have had some many interviews, its sad. I even applied at McDonalds, Burger King, etc... simply because I hate not having a job. They told me I was overqualified. Its not a matter of picking myself up. Its a matter of trying to find an employer that will hire me, but even then, the pay has to be more than the unemployment I get so I can still pay for my vehicle, buy food, make sure my wife and son have what they need to survive, and pay for my medication every month, which is over 250 a month. When you go from making a good deal to making nothing, your "rainy day" fund goes pretty fast. My previous employer cashed the check for Cobra, but never submitted the paperwork, so I am uninsured, which means every doctor visit, every EEG, and the multitude of other tests I have to go through are all in cash out of my funds. That has been over 10 grand already. Sometimes its not about the bootstraps, but about loosening the weights someone else tied you up with.
    You, like everyone, do not have a guarantee of employment for life. In addition it seems you have serious health issues. It was imperative that, while you were "making a good deal", you forego anything beyond necessities and save up for the even more extraordinary possibilities you were at risk for (and are now experiencing).

    I'm in good health and I am, fortunately, currently employed. You better believe I am and have been saving for a long time as if I could lose my job tomorrow and incur major health costs.

    One time, I went four years without steady employment, yet I and my then wife kept a roof over our heads. I had exited a short-lived career, but with a substantial "rainy day" fund, and went to college. Mid-way (2 years) into college, we had a kid. Talk about major medical bills! And my wife, not having a degree, was making working-class wages while I hustled at any on-the-table or under-the-table job I could find. I even started up my own private math tutoring business on the side and hustled and found customers wanting to pay for good help with math. We got through all that, I got my degree, and we lived a better life afterward. But I still plan and save like a Motherfu**er. Subsequently, I've gone through successfully a couple of bouts of unemployment, major medical bill, etc.

    All I see with your above comments are excuses and a lack of planning, hustle, and creative thinking about all the other possibilities for employing yourself and getting your own damn roof over your own damn head. And where's your wife in all this?

    I will never, ever be caught uttering something like "the weights someone else tied me up with". Where's your ba**s, your self-responsibility, and your self-reliance???

    ETA: All the above is just tough love way of saying, I want to see you with your own roof over your own damn head. Stop with the excuses, and you and your wife need to get busy. Get a small damn place in not the trendiest damn area, eat PB&J and Ramen noodles, go without cable, but have your own damn roof over your own damn heads. I know this won't happen overnight. But make it happen ASAFP! Trust me, you can buy big bags of rice and big bags of beans for cheap, and it goes far. You gotta skip Taco Bell, McDonalds, Burger King, etc. Been there, done that.
    Last edited by DanM; 06-03-2011 at 01:11 AM.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrome_coyote View Post
    Anywho, I am just curious as to what issues and/or experiences all you OCers out there have had with friends or family.
    Get your CPL and conceal. If you are patted down, get a SmartCarry. They really do work well. I have been searched twice and it passed the test both times. You can be strip searched down to your boxers and still be concealed. Also works very well when wearing gym shorts (can't pocket carry due to floppiness when running and can't holster carry since there's no belt). Very comfortable holster, and very concealable.

    As far as open carrying- yeah, don't do it around her. Sneak it with your holster out like you normally would. But if you are in her house, you are unfortunately under her rules (or at least are expected to make the appearance that you are following them).

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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    When my x and I began, we stayed at a boat launch living out of our car. Within a few weeks, we were living at a Lions Club owned beach campground for 15$ a week, which I payed for by doing maintenance, and cutting the grass. We had water, electricity, and enough of an address to keep the southern police away from us. It was tough, but I wouldnt have done it differently. Me, my new girlfriend, living on a South Carolina beach in the summer.
    Man, Honestly living on the beach would be awesome. The only problem about doing something like that is we need to be at an actual house because of my 5 year old son. We are just waiting for our court date, but before that, we have to have a visit by a social worker and get the ok from them. Plus, because of school, that complicates the situation a little bit. But I know in time things will come together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    You, like everyone, do not have a guarantee of employment for life. In addition it seems you have serious health issues. It was imperative that, while you were "making a good deal", you forego anything beyond necessities and save up for the even more extraordinary possibilities you were at risk for (and are now experiencing).

    I'm in good health and I am, fortunately, currently employed. You better believe I am and have been saving for a long time as if I could lose my job tomorrow and incur major health costs.

    One time, I went four years without steady employment, yet I and my then wife kept a roof over our heads. I had exited a short-lived career, but with a substantial "rainy day" fund, and went to college. Mid-way (2 years) into college, we had a kid. Talk about major medical bills! And my wife, not having a degree, was making working-class wages while I hustled at any on-the-table or under-the-table job I could find. I even started up my own private math tutoring business on the side and hustled and found customers wanting to pay for good help with math. We got through all that, I got my degree, and we lived a better life afterward. But I still plan and save like a Motherfu**er. Subsequently, I've gone through successfully a couple of bouts of unemployment, major medical bill, etc.

    All I see with your above comments are excuses and a lack of planning, hustle, and creative thinking about all the other possibilities for employing yourself and getting your own damn roof over your own damn head. And where's your wife in all this?

    I will never, ever be caught uttering something like "the weights someone else tied me up with". Where's your ba**s, your self-responsibility, and your self-reliance???

    ETA: All the above is just tough love way of saying, I want to see you with your own roof over your own damn head. Stop with the excuses, and you and your wife need to get busy. Get a small damn place in not the trendiest damn area, eat PB&J and Ramen noodles, go without cable, but have your own damn roof over your own damn heads. I know this won't happen overnight. But make it happen ASAFP! Trust me, you can buy big bags of rice and big bags of beans for cheap, and it goes far. You gotta skip Taco Bell, McDonalds, Burger King, etc. Been there, done that.
    Well, I am pretty sure I know where where my balls, self responsibility, and self reliance are. And we know how to live cheap, and we do make the right choices. I understand that you are not trying to be harsh, and I'm fine with the things that have been said (well, typed). But, saying that its all excuses isn't exactly accurate. We dont go out to eat, we don't waste money, and its not like we are just sitting on our duffs. Plus, I know how to hustle, I know how to work hard, and I know how to sacrifice. And you asked where my wife was in this. She is right by my side, not flinching at this bump in the road. Could she work right now? Well, she is physically able to, but I won't let her, and I am not the only one stopping her. She is going to school full-time to complete her masters, and I would rather sacrifice now so she can be successful in that, then to have her compromise schooling. Plus, now I am back in school and making sure I can provide a better future for my family as well. Could we get our own place right now? Yes, I could pull funds from the "rainy day fund" for rent, but what happens if for whatever reason, I cant get a job? Then, we would be a lot worse off. But I think you may have mistook my original post. Yeah, it sucks having to live with my inlaws, but honestly, the only real issue we have is about firearms. Even then, its only with the MIL. But since it is her house I still respect her wishes, whether I agree or not. But lets get back to my original intent with this thread. To see what negative issues people have had with friends/family about OC or CC. Not about my health and living situation.

  19. #19
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    My mom is not anti-gun in the least little bit, but they scare her to no end (even after multiple conversations using my best "skills" and info). When I am at my mom's house, I simply conceal carry and as long as she doesn't see it she is OK (but she does know I am carrying). Out of respect, I conceal carry every time I am around her.

    Her house, her rules.
    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 06-03-2011 at 10:07 AM.

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    Aah yes, the socialist /american pilot program child protective disservices, does complicate things a bit then. In your position, I would tell the wife and kid to stay with mom, and go to the local campgrounds alone. It would do wonders for your health.

  21. #21
    Michigan Moderator Shadow Bear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrome_coyote View Post
    Well, In this case, I don't have much choice. I can't go into too much detail since the EEOC is involved, but not having a job right now is not my choice, nor is it my fault. I have a long list of skills, certifications, training, etc... but right now, as we all know, the job market is a tough place. I have had some many interviews, its sad. I even applied at McDonalds, Burger King, etc... simply because I hate not having a job. They told me I was overqualified. Its not a matter of picking myself up. Its a matter of trying to find an employer that will hire me, but even then, the pay has to be more than the unemployment I get so I can still pay for my vehicle, buy food, make sure my wife and son have what they need to survive, and pay for my medication every month, which is over 250 a month. When you go from making a good deal to making nothing, your "rainy day" fund goes pretty fast. My previous employer cashed the check for Cobra, but never submitted the paperwork, so I am uninsured, which means every doctor visit, every EEG, and the multitude of other tests I have to go through are all in cash out of my funds. That has been over 10 grand already. Sometimes its not about the bootstraps, but about loosening the weights someone else tied you up with.
    What sort of skills, certifications, etc?
    'If the people are not ready for the exercise of the non-violence of the brave, they must be ready for the use of force in self defense. There should be no camouflage.....it must never be secret.' MK Gandhi II-146 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)-- Gandhi supports open carry!

    'There is nothing more demoralizing than the fake non-violence of the weak and impotent.' MK Gandhi II-153 (Gandhi on Non-Violence)

  22. #22
    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrome_coyote View Post
    Well, I am pretty sure I know where where my balls, self responsibility, and self reliance are. And we know how to live cheap, and we do make the right choices. I understand that you are not trying to be harsh . . .
    I'm not, but some of the things I wrote look that way. Sorry. I'll be the first one to high-five you when you get your own place, but if you don't I might low-five you with a boot to the butt. We don't want to hear a year from now that you and your wife still don't have your own place. Make it happen.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  23. #23
    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    I would cc and, if it truly is the case that mother-in-law (MIL) actually checks to see if you are cc, I would cc with the smart carry or maybe even in a planner zippered pouch until off the premises.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer – I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Tucker6900's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrome_coyote View Post
    Well, over the last 8 months, my life has changed quite a bit. I got married, I am in almost at the end of the process of adopting the child I have called my son for 4 years, I have changed jobs, and then was wrongfully terminated from the new job less than a month after I was married. So, at the moment, I live with my wifes parents. Not the most fun in the world, but her mother is not only very anti OC, she is anti gun in general. Its to the point where I am not permitted to OC or CC at the house if she is home (And you all thought that the STATE laws were bad). And Even when she isn't home, she will randomly stop back home during the day "just to say hi" or as I like to call it, My semi daily weapon shakedown. Even if I am leaving the house to go shopping or to pick my beautiful wife and son up a coffee and a chocolate milk, I almost half to smuggle it out of the house. My wife and father in law are both very pro gun and pro CC and OC, but it seems my wifes mother rules the roost. Anywho, I am just curious as to what issues and/or experiences all you OCers out there have had with friends or family.
    I shared the same relationship with my mother in law. She wasnt really anti gun, but they scared her. So, I gave it some time, and every opportunity I had to educate her and to sooth her fears, I did so. Now, after a couple of years of education, I am now allowed to carry in her house.

    I think the first thing you need to do is find out what the real problem is. Is she really anti gun? Or is she just fearful of firearms in general? I have a feeling its the latter due to the fact that her husband is pro gun. Take some time to talk with her about it in a manner thats not confrontational, and just educate her.

    Good luck!

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