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Thread: Ballard Locks

  1. #1
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    Ballard Locks

    On Sunday, May 22 2011, my wife, friend and I were visiting the Hiram M.
    Chittenden Locks (Ballard Locks). I was openly carrying my Beretta 92F in a Blackhawk SERPA holster. We visited the site for about 45 minutes. As we were about to leave I was approached by an employee and was told that I would have to take my firearm out and secure it in my vehicle. He said that the locks are Federal property and that the provisions of 36 CFR prohibiting firearms are applicable. He did say that I could cover it up though. I was even given an internal memo and an USACE regulation pamphlet.

    Of course having read the pamphlet, according to 36 CFR 327.13 (a) 4, the prohibition can be lifted by written permission from the District Commander. It also doesn't say anything about having it concealed being OK. So I wrote the district commander to request permission to carry. I also mentioned that there is no signage or any place to check in a weapon if someone were to walk in or come by mass transit.

    I also had emailed through the USACE website and the other day got a response saying they would have to check with their lawyers.

    Now I get an email from NRA ILA Alerts. "H.R. 1865, THE RECREATIONAL LANDS SELF-DEFENSE ACT: Urge your Member of Congress to Cosponsor this Important Legislation -- As we previously reported, on May 12, Rep. Bob Gibbs (R-Ohio) and Rep. Jason Altmire (D-Pa.) introduced H.R. 1865, the Recreational Lands Self-Defense Act, which is designed to protect the rights of gun owners on lands owned or managed by the Army Corps of Engineers."

    I will update this if I get a response from the commander, but somehow I doubt I will. I've OCd there many times and this is the first I've had any encounter. But I will say they were very friendly, understanding, sympathetic and yet still very professional.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Wow, nice find. Please keep us updated.
    Live Free or Die!

  3. #3
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    USACE info
    http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/emp...fs/title36.pdf.

    See section 13
    327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
    (a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:
    (1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
    (2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
    (3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
    (4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.
    (b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.

    More info:
    http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/emp...ill.cfm?Id=789
    Last edited by Bill Starks; 06-06-2011 at 03:02 AM.

  4. #4
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    FYI -
    36 C.F.R. 327.13 remains in full force and effect. It will continue to prohibit loaded concealed weapons on Corps properties regardless of the new law and notwithstanding any contrary provisions of State law. It remains Corps policy that we will not honor State-issued concealed weapon permits on our facilities and that District Commanders do not have discretion under 36 C.F.R. 327.13(a)(4) to create blanket exceptions to this policy. A change of this nature to Corps regulations in 36 C.F.R. Part 327 would require formal rulemaking procedures under the Administrative Procedures Act (5 U.S.C. 551-706).

  5. #5
    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Should we expect anything else from the same bunch of guys who think that even the most highly trained, dedicated, & disciplined all-volunteer force in the world shouldn't be armed on a secured non-public facility... y'know, cuz that will stop some lunatic in Texas from shooting up said secured facility, for example...
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    USACE info
    http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/emp...fs/title36.pdf.

    See section 13
    327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
    (a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:
    (1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
    (2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
    (3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
    (4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.
    (b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.

    More info:
    http://corpslakes.usace.army.mil/emp...ill.cfm?Id=789
    The way the law is written you can have an unloaded firearm on you but no ammo. Also I wrote a professional letter to the district commander to formally request written permission to carry. LOL

  7. #7
    Regular Member jt59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    The way the law is written you can have an unloaded firearm on you but no ammo. Also I wrote a professional letter to the district commander to formally request written permission to carry. LOL
    Do you wear a kilt?
    Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat....Teddy Roosevelt

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt59 View Post
    Do you wear a kilt?
    I occasionally wear my Utilikilt, but didn't on that day. Though there were three guys walking around that day with different Utilikilts on. Mine is black and plain, though they have a cool kilt for construction workers with lots of pockets, hammer loop and made of a heavy material that I want to get.
    Last edited by sirpuma; 06-09-2011 at 01:08 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirpuma View Post
    . Mine is black and plain, though they have a cool kilt for construction workers with lots of pockets, hammer loop and made of a heavy material that I want to get.
    That heavier material could come in handy on a windy day. Keep a guy from inadvertently "open carrying" due to a gust.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    That heavier material could come in handy on a windy day. Keep a guy from inadvertently "open carrying" due to a gust.
    Yeah, it was pretty windy up on St. Helens when we went there. Up on Johnston Ridge I had to hold it down in areas because of the wind. Didn't want to go scaring any of the children there. o.0

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